Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (N2EY)
Date: 10/22/2004 11:39 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

...who does not say "destinated" either......

My standard response to "destinated" is to recommend 8 ounces of warm
prune juice with 1 ounce of Milk-of-Magnesia..."Brown Slide Cocktail"...

73

Steve, K4YZ

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in
:

In article , Alun
writes:

(N2EY) wrote in
.com:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/20/2004 6:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
om...
(William) wrote in message
. com...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in
message
ink.net...
Riley is not a Extra class.

Dan/W4NTI

Quote from several Extra's on RRAP, "So what's his problem?"

Which of "several Extra's", Brain?

There's only a few of us, so it can't be TOO hard to pony up
a quote.

Re-quotes from posts, please? FACTS...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

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From: N2EY )
Subject: Excellent ARRL proposal


View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy
Date: 2004-01-25 12:31:04 PST


In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:
go thru to get on the air. There were neighborhood radio clubs
which didn't allow full voting memberships to Novices and Techs
. . .


And in the mid-60s there were still some who did similar things.
Indeed, there were Advanceds who looked down on Generals,
Generals who looked down on Conditionals, Conditionals who
looked down on Techs, and Techs who looked down on Novices. Etc.

And it wasn't just kids vs. adults, either.

Yessir, It's 2004 and it's **still** out there. Guy was up late
last year for the vote on approving his membership application
into The Group (the 43rd & Kingsessing "Group" we're both familair
with yes?)

You mean the one where the attendance sheet looks like the DXCC
Honor Roll?

and somebody asked "what license class does he have?" His sponser:
"Uhhh . . Advanced." Then he ducked. Immediate 180dBA noise level
from the Back Benchers, "what the hell is this guy's problem?"

Well, what IS his problem?

That group is heavily focused on DX and contesting - particularly
DX contesting. They're "a bit competitive"....

Anything less than an Extra is a big competitive disadvantage in DX
contesting. Like not being able to work split. So why doesn't the
guy get one? Even if he only works 'phone, all he need do is pass
element 4. And he's had almost 4 years.

No, wait, that's not a good reason. Those writtens are really
tough. More than 4 years ago, (Jan 19, 2000, to be exact) a certain
verbose nonham here said he was going for Extra "right out of the
box". But no ham license of any class yet. And this nonham says
he's a "radio PROFESSIONAL"....

Maybe he should apply to The Group. I'd like to attend that
meeting....

Then as now, they were few - but noisy.

Maybe it was different where you were, Dan.

It's all just cycles Dan and the 1968 maneuver was not the
first cycle by any means and welcome to the current cycle.
There will be others.

Circle Game.

Dit-dit!

Still nothing from one of "us"

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras"
in RRAP suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a
problem".

That's right.

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago
wherein some other group of people may have acted stupidly.

That depends on the definition of "stupid".

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim,
or myself, among others, as having said anything close to
"what's his problem" over not being an Extra class licensee.

Let's clear this up.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF
contesting and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better,
and not much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties;
they focus on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive,
and progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

The "what's his problem" reaction above happened a relatively short
time ago, not the 1960s, so the code test wasn't the issue at all.

Is that an "elitist" situation? Maybe - but that club is an elite
group. Their accomplishments in their chosen field tell the tale.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I don't know Jim. I know I guy who is on the DXCC Honor Roll and is
only a General.

Of course. The exception that proves the rule.

I'm an Extra and I don't even have my basic DXCC.

Me neither. I'm not into DXing that much.

I could see the
same might apply to contesting too.

Sure.

The discussion quoted above was about admission to a very serious
DX/contest club. Their standards are high, and their goal is to win.
Not having an Extra is an easily-avoided disadvantage, and that the
applicant didn't understand that was an indication that he didn't
really understand what the club is all about.

Heck, if I applied, they'd probably ask me what logging software I use
in contests. And when I told them I use paper logs, they'd probably
say:

"What's *your* problem, Jim?"

73 de Jim, N2EY


I use paper logs too, and you're probably right about that, I'm sure they
would look askance at it.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

In article , Alun
writes:

The discussion quoted above was about admission to a very serious
DX/contest club. Their standards are high, and their goal is to win.
Not having an Extra is an easily-avoided disadvantage, and that the
applicant didn't understand that was an indication that he didn't
really understand what the club is all about.

Heck, if I applied, they'd probably ask me what logging software I use
in contests. And when I told them I use paper logs, they'd probably
say:

"What's *your* problem, Jim?"

73 de Jim, N2EY

I use paper logs too, and you're probably right about that, I'm sure they
would look askance at it.

Exactly! Nothing "wrong" with computer logs, or paper logs. But at the level
those folks play the game, computer logging has a definite advantage - just
like having an Extra.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article et, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

First off, nobody with any sense says "first personal" in normal
conversation.

Nope, nobody I ever heard.

That's cb slang, pure and simple,

Yup, that's where "Jim" learned it.

and it has no place in amateur radio. Period.

Why not?

Because it sounds silly and serves no purpose. Just IMHO.

However, as I noted before, online lectures are not the way to stop it.

They use borrowed ham slang like "handle" on CB.

Corrupting it in the process. "Handle" used to simply mean "name", and it
wasn't even strictly a piece of ham jargon. cb folks changed its meaning to "a
made-up name to avoid using call letters or other means of positive
identification".

10-4, Rubber Duck?

Q signals on voice aren't as bad, but they're
usually not good operating practice.

Why are they not "good operating practice"?

When plain English serves the purpose better. (note I wrote "usually".)

Everyone understands them,
even if "nobody with any sense" uses them in normal conversation.

Why not just use plain English? That's the whole point of using 'phone, isn't
it?

The moral of Hans' story seems to be "Don't ever tell anybody how to
operate, no matter how nicely, because they might be driven off." The
implication seems to be that we should accept any sort of behavior
on-air, rather than risk offending anybody.

As a KVG fan, I'd have thought you'd be the one person here to see the
moral of the story, because it echos the theme of almost all of his
work, which boils down to "BE NICE, DAMN-IT!"

Sorry I missed it, Hans.

"Pretend to be good always,
and even God will be fooled."

- God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater

"Foma! All foma!"

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(William) writes:

Hmmm? Doesn't look like an apology even though he admitted to getting
it wrong. Just what does it take for Steve to act like a human being?

An order direct from the Commandant of the Marine Corps?

"N2EY" wrote


Corrupting it in the process. "Handle" used to simply mean "name", and
it
wasn't even strictly a piece of ham jargon. cb folks changed its
meaning to "a
made-up name to avoid using call letters or other means of positive
identification".


Whatever! 60 years ago Clinton DeSoto wrote:

"Among radio amateurs there is a genuine brotherhood and informal
camaraderie. Everyone is called by his "handle" -- his first name
or nickname. The president of the Chicago Stock Exchange and the
mechanic in a Birmingham garage are just "Paul" and "Joe" when
they meet on the air."

I guess I'll continue to use the term 'handle" --- seems to have good
roots.



Why not just use plain English?


Because the use of abbreviations and operating signals which permeated
our hobby in it's early years on Morse are carried forward as part of
the fraternity. Q signals, etc, are part of the adopted lingo of our
hobby. We all understand what they mean, and they tend to identify us as
part of the 'cognosenti'.

Many vocations and avocations have a "lingo" which, while it may strike
outsiders (and uptight insiders) as "quaint" or "affected". Auto racers
say "skins" instead of "tires", bikers talk about "Hogs", not Harley
Davidsons, old time technicians say "mickey-mikes" instead of "pico
farads", sailors say "fart sack" instead of "matress cover", and some
hams say "QSL" instead of "yes". I say, who cares.... my grammar
teacher isn't a ham, so she won't catch me, and a Russian, American, or
Brazilian ham will all understand "Thanks for the QSO" but they might
wonder WTF if I closed with "I appreciate the delightful conversation".

73 OM, de Hans, K0HB
didididah didaaaaah

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...

Heck, if I applied, they'd probably ask me what logging software I use in
contests. And when I told them I use paper logs, they'd probably say:

"What's *your* problem, Jim?"

73 de Jim, N2EY

People have wondered about your elitist attitude problem.

N2EY wrote:


It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".


That's right.

Need that extra license be a 20WPM? Or is 5WPM good
enough? .... Oh damm, mine is an "Extra lite"

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.


That depends on the definition of "stupid".

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over not
being an Extra class licensee.


Let's clear this up.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF contesting
and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better, and not
much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties; they focus
on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive, and
progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

Maybe such a person wants to see if the Extra license's
benefits would be worthwhile to him. ANd if that club
would be for him if and when he did get his extra. Or
just a glutton for punishment....

robert casey wrote:

N2EY wrote:

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".


That's right.

Need that extra license be a 20WPM? Or is 5WPM good
enough? .... Oh damm, mine is an "Extra lite"

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.


That depends on the definition of "stupid".

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over not
being an Extra class licensee.


Let's clear this up.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF contesting
and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better, and not
much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties; they focus
on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive, and
progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

Maybe such a person wants to see if the Extra license's
benefits would be worthwhile to him. ANd if that club
would be for him if and when he did get his extra. Or
just a glutton for punishment....

One doesn't attend the meetings of some of these clubs to see if that
club would be for him. Someone will let him know if the club is for him
and notify him only after it has been decided to invite him to join or
not.
There's a certain Cincinnati area DX club which required DXCC and an
invitation to join. The Southwest Ohio DX Association, on the other
hand, doesn't restrict membership. Any guy with a 10m rig and a dipole
can sign up.

Dave K8MN

robert casey wrote in message link.net...
N2EY wrote:


It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".


That's right.

Need that extra license be a 20WPM? Or is 5WPM good
enough? .... Oh damm, mine is an "Extra lite"

At 14.153mHz it doesn't matter if you can do 5WPM or 30...It DOES
matter if your license says "GENERAL" or "EXTRA"...

Or did yuo forget that there are other modes than CW,
Robert...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ