Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/23/2004 6:21 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

Heck, if I applied, they'd probably ask me what logging software I use in
contests. And when I told them I use paper logs, they'd probably say:

"What's *your* problem, Jim?"

73 de Jim, N2EY

People have wondered about your elitist attitude problem.

"People"...?!?!

Since when did you and Lennie constitute "people"...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

Hmmm? Doesn't look like an apology even though he admitted to getting
it wrong. Just what does it take for Steve to act like a human being?

An order direct from the Commandant of the Marine Corps?



Hmmmm? Wonder why he's not a marine anymore?

In article . net, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

Corrupting it in the process. "Handle" used to simply mean "name", and it
wasn't even strictly a piece of ham jargon. cb folks changed its meaning to
"a
made-up name to avoid using call letters or other means of positive
identification".

Whatever! 60 years ago Clinton DeSoto wrote:

"Among radio amateurs there is a genuine brotherhood and informal
camaraderie. Everyone is called by his "handle" -- his first name
or nickname. The president of the Chicago Stock Exchange and the
mechanic in a Birmingham garage are just "Paul" and "Joe" when
they meet on the air."

I guess I'll continue to use the term 'handle" --- seems to have good
roots.

Etymologists into common American idioms can tell us all that the
term "handle" predates the first demonstrations of radio as a
communications medium. That is, prior to 1896. Its use was
widespread in the sun belt areas of the USA.

But, as the PA Raddio Kopps say (flashing their very important
badges), the word "handle" is an evil despicable nasty word
uttered by unspeakably bad "CBers" just to defame certain
amateur radio extras.

Meanwhile, back to the "meaningful" discussions by the Architects
and Master Mariners (of the landlocked kind) into the WTC,
airliner handling, engineering safety, and navel maneuvers. All of
which have enormous impact on amateur radio policy matters. :-)

In article . net, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

Corrupting it in the process. "Handle" used to simply mean "name", and
it
wasn't even strictly a piece of ham jargon. cb folks changed its
meaning to "a
made-up name to avoid using call letters or other means of positive
identification".

Whatever!

The meaning of words does change over time. Consider what the word "gay" used
to mean as an adjective, and what it means now.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

60 years ago Clinton DeSoto wrote:

"Among radio amateurs there is a genuine brotherhood and informal
camaraderie. Everyone is called by his "handle" -- his first name
or nickname. The president of the Chicago Stock Exchange and the
mechanic in a Birmingham garage are just "Paul" and "Joe" when
they meet on the air."

Sure - back before the meaning of "handle" changed. btw, it may have been a bit
longer than 60 years ago...

In those days, "handle" = "name". The above paragraph simply meant that hams
didn't (and still don't) call each other by last names or titles. Which is
definitely a Good Thing.

I guess I'll continue to use the term 'handle" --- seems to have good
roots.

No problem! I'll continue to use "name".

Why not just use plain English?

Because the use of abbreviations and operating signals which permeated
our hobby in it's early years on Morse are carried forward as part of
the fraternity.

You mean....because it's a tradition?

Q signals, etc, are part of the adopted lingo of our
hobby. We all understand what they mean, and they tend to identify us as
part of the 'cognosenti'.

Good points all.

Many vocations and avocations have a "lingo" which, while it may strike
outsiders (and uptight insiders) as "quaint" or "affected". Auto racers
say "skins" instead of "tires", bikers talk about "Hogs", not Harley
Davidsons,

Did you know that Johnson Motors is reported to be going into the motorcycle
business, making large road touring bikes in direct competition with Harley?

old time technicians say "mickey-mikes" instead of "pico
farads",

Or "puffs"

sailors say "fart sack" instead of "matress cover", and some
hams say "QSL" instead of "yes".

Roger that!

For me, the question is whether a jargon term exists to express a specific
concept that does not exist in plain English or to save syllables, or whether
it's there just to sound different.

I say, who cares.... my grammar
teacher isn't a ham, so she won't catch me, and a Russian, American, or
Brazilian ham will all understand "Thanks for the QSO" but they might
wonder WTF if I closed with "I appreciate the delightful conversation".

R R TU

In my field of work, the jargon can get to the point that ordinary people
cannot follow the conversation, yet all the jargon terms exist because the
equivalent plain English expressions are much longer and more complicated.
That's true for a lot of ham slang ("shack", "rig", "QSL card", "73") but not
for all.

In any event, an on-air lecture isn't the way to stop it.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/22/2004 5:54 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

btw, Steve, no disrespect intended, but among those folks, 115 countries
isn't
a big deal. Twice that many isn't! It's just a matter of what they focus on.

No offense taken.

btw - is that 115 countries worked, or 115 countries confirmed?

I know that a lot of the "big ones" are in the bottom 25kHz, but at the
same time, a lot of them transmit in the bottom 25 and listen up. That's
where I caught a lot of them.

Of course.

Although I know you can use "past" callsigns collectively to get your
DXCC, I reworked almost all of them again under K4YZ to get my DXCC. A few
were left overs from when I held my 2X1, but most were done over...just to do
it.

But wouldn't it be easier to work them with a shorter call? ;-)

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

robert casey wrote:

N2EY wrote:

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in
RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".

That's right.

Need that extra license be a 20WPM? Or is 5WPM good
enough? .... Oh damm, mine is an "Extra lite"

Doesn't matter to that bunch. 5 wpm Extra has been available since 1990,
anyway.

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein
some other group of people may have acted stupidly.

That depends on the definition of "stupid".

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or
myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over
not
being an Extra class licensee.

Let's clear this up.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF contesting
and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better, and not
much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties; they focus
on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive, and
progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

Maybe such a person wants to see if the Extra license's
benefits would be worthwhile to him.

How would attending meetings tell him that?

ANd if that club
would be for him if and when he did get his extra.

That's a valid reason to go to meetings.

Or just a glutton for punishment....

??

One doesn't attend the meetings of some of these clubs to see if that
club would be for him.

Why not? I did.

Someone will let him know if the club is for him
and notify him only after it has been decided to invite him to join or
not.

At least in the club that the story describes, there's a world of difference
between attending meetings and joining up. Going to meetings is one way to find
out if the club is for you or not. Everyone was very nice to me when I went
there, even thought I was an almost complete stranger. They didn't know my
callsign or license class, either.

There's a certain Cincinnati area DX club which required DXCC and an
invitation to join. The Southwest Ohio DX Association, on the other
hand, doesn't restrict membership. Any guy with a 10m rig and a dipole
can sign up.

Yup. We have clubs like that around here, too.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

robert casey wrote:

N2EY wrote:

One doesn't attend the meetings of some of these clubs to see if that
club would be for him.

Why not? I did.

....because the only way to attend some of 'em is by invitation.

Someone will let him know if the club is for him
and notify him only after it has been decided to invite him to join or
not.

At least in the club that the story describes, there's a world of difference
between attending meetings and joining up. Going to meetings is one way to find
out if the club is for you or not. Everyone was very nice to me when I went
there, even thought I was an almost complete stranger. They didn't know my
callsign or license class, either.

The Cincinnati area club, described below invited prospective members of
their choosing to attend a meeting. The invited attendee was "grilled"
a bit about his on-air activities, his DXCC status and his contesting
interest. I was invited to a meeting and determined within the first
fifteen minutes or so that I wasn't interested. This old, old club is
all but extinct now--a result of being too picky about who joined. The
old core membership simply died off.

There's a certain Cincinnati area DX club which required DXCC and an
invitation to join. The Southwest Ohio DX Association, on the other
hand, doesn't restrict membership. Any guy with a 10m rig and a dipole
can sign up.

Yup. We have clubs like that around here, too.

There are few clubs hereabouts and none of them are DX/contest clubs.
It is a minimum 25 drive for me to attend even our country ARES
meetings. The nearest DX/contesting club is in Pittsburgh, an
hour-and-a-half away.
In the valley, those who chase DX are K8IP, N8NN, W8GBH and me. I'm not
nearly as active in contesting as in previous years. The idea of
spending 44-45 hours of a 48 hour CQ WW doesn't appeal to me as much now
as it did a decade or so back. I tend to do more single band entries.
160, 80 or 40m guarantees some sleep during the day. 10m at the current
point in the solar cycle would allow me to sleep all night and be bored
all day.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

robert casey wrote:

N2EY wrote:

One doesn't attend the meetings of some of these clubs to see if that
club would be for him.

Why not? I did.

...because the only way to attend some of 'em is by invitation.

Wow! Never heard of that before!

Someone will let him know if the club is for him
and notify him only after it has been decided to invite him to join or
not.

At least in the club that the story describes, there's a world of
difference
between attending meetings and joining up. Going to meetings is one way to
find
out if the club is for you or not. Everyone was very nice to me when I went
there, even thought I was an almost complete stranger. They didn't know my
callsign or license class, either.

The Cincinnati area club, described below invited prospective members of
their choosing to attend a meeting. The invited attendee was "grilled"
a bit about his on-air activities, his DXCC status and his contesting
interest.

Understandable, to a point anyway. If the club is special-purpose, folks with a
different focus will almost certainly try to change the direction.

I was invited to a meeting and determined within the first
fifteen minutes or so that I wasn't interested. This old, old club is
all but extinct now--a result of being too picky about who joined. The
old core membership simply died off.

Understandable!

There's a certain Cincinnati area DX club which required DXCC and an
invitation to join. The Southwest Ohio DX Association, on the other
hand, doesn't restrict membership. Any guy with a 10m rig and a dipole
can sign up.

Yup. We have clubs like that around here, too.

There are few clubs hereabouts and none of them are DX/contest clubs.
It is a minimum 25 drive for me to attend even our country ARES
meetings. The nearest DX/contesting club is in Pittsburgh, an
hour-and-a-half away.
In the valley, those who chase DX are K8IP, N8NN, W8GBH and me.

I've belonged to a few clubs in my 37 years, but recently time limitations are
a big problem. It's not that I have no time, it's that the time comes in small
bits at unpredictable or inconvenient times. Most clubs don't have meetings on
weekdays at 5 AM, for example.

I'm not
nearly as active in contesting as in previous years. The idea of
spending 44-45 hours of a 48 hour CQ WW doesn't appeal to me as much now
as it did a decade or so back. I tend to do more single band entries.
160, 80 or 40m guarantees some sleep during the day. 10m at the current
point in the solar cycle would allow me to sleep all night and be bored
all day.

I've always been domestic-contesting focused, for some reason. SS, Field Day,
NA sprints, etc. Small potatoes to the serious contest folk in these parts, but
much more do-able for those with moderate stations and time.

Two weekends to SS, btw. QRP with the K2 or low power with the Type 7? We'll
see.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...

What are you going to do to fix it?

Steve, K4YZ

Remember Steve, I'm not a doctor. So there's not much I can do.

Best of Luck.

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 10/21/2004 11:49 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net

Unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished!

What was YOUR last "good deed", Hans?

In THIS century, please...

Steve, K4YZ

More apologies, I see.