What's wrong with this Hamfest announcement?

73, de Hans, K0HB

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Hamvention 2004

Program of Activities
Nov 27, 2004
Ecotech Center, Cebu City, Philippines

7:00 Registration of Delegates
8:00 Opening Ceremonies
Invocation -
National Anthem - Joan Jayme
Welcome Address - Emilio B. Borja, DU7EBB
Declaration of Hamvention Open - Steve Tan,DW7MCC
8:30 FCC VEC Exam
9:00 Packet Radio Seminar - Bilfredo Canas, DU9BC
9:45 Echolink Seminar - Maximino Santos, 4F1BYN
10:30 Snacks
11:00 Congress of Presidents
Open Forum
12:00 Lunch Break
13:00 WRC / Satellite - Eddie Valdez, DU1EV
13:45 ARES - Eli E. Yongco, DU1YEE
14:30 PARA Awards Program - Serafin A. Nepomuceno,
DU1SAN
15:00 Snacks
15:30 General Assembly / Election
2005 Hamvention Host Bidding
17:30 PARA Board Meeting
19:00 Dinner
19:00 Fellowship Night
Roll Call of Clubs - Steve Tan, DW7MCC
Message from PARA Pres. - Jose Mari Gonzales,
DU1JMG
Introduction of Guest Speaker - Jet Manuel,4F7MHZ
Inspirational Talk - Danilo T. Sy,
Regional Director - NTC 7
Intermission
Awards and Recognition
Intermission
Raffle Draw
21:45 Free Time

Subject: Get your Trophy US Extra Callsign (A KH0x call would be nice!)
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/22/2004 11:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: et

What's wrong with this Hamfest announcement?

Are you refering to the fact that it's held in one of the southern island
provinces of the Philippines, or that they fail to render oaths and allegiance
to Hans Brakob?

Or perhaps it's the FCC VEC testing...???

Had you been to the RP you'd know there are a great number of US residents
who hold dual citizenship, and VE testing is routinely held outside the
territorial limits of the United States for their benefit. However this is
also a moot point since US citizenship is not required for FCC licensure.

Furthermore, review of FCC rules and regulations does not specifiy where
VE exams must be held. It does require prior public announcement of testing to
be held, and it would appear that this announcement meets the test of US law.

Therefore, there seems to be nothing wrong with the announcement.

Your point was?

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote

or that they fail to render oaths and allegiance
to Hans Brakob?

Steve, could you point out to me where this "render oaths and
allegiance" bull**** comes from? Had to double check and make sure the
post didn't come from Len Anderson!


Your point was?


If you have to ask, you probably won't "get it", but I've got a hot news
flash for you. Those fellas taking the FCC tests at DU and JA hamfests
aren't dual citizens of DU (or JA) and Saipan, they're souveneir
collectors and reciprocal-licensing cheats.

There are a small handful of "will-call" PO boxes in KH0 and KH2 which
are the "home address" for hundreds of JA and DU citizens. (What do all
these calls have in common? KH2O KH0JQ KH0JU KH0KW AH0BB KH0BZ KH0CG
KH0CQ KH0HQ KH0HZ WH0V NH0F WH0B WH0C AH0AS AH0AU KH0CN KH0DD ......and
I could go on for hundreds of desirable KH0/KH2 call signs held by
foreign nationals who've never set foot on Guam/Saipan/US soil and
likely have no intention to ever do so.)

Here's how it works. DU1XYZ or JA1XYZ knows a guy on KH0 or KH2 and has
him rent a PO Box. Then he gets himself and a couple of buddies a W5YI
VE certificate and holds exams. Applicants are given the KH0 or KH2 PO
Box address (for a "consideration") and "bingo", they have their
souveneir US call sign. Over half of the KH0 and KH2 2x1 calls have
been scarfed up by JA's and DU's. Meanwhile some kid on Guam or Saipan
who upgrades to Extra has to wait until a JA or DU fella croaks over to
capture a desireable call, unless some other JA or DU captures it first
for a souvenier.

Besides "souveniers" I mentioned reciprocal-licensing cheats, which is a
primary reason so many KH0/KH2 calls go to JA's..... Because JA only
has reciprocal agreements with a dozen or less countries, a US license
is an essential tool for JA DXpeditioners --- let's say they'd like to
do a DXpedition to V7 or VP9 . Their JA license is useless, but let
them flash a KH0 license and wham, he's VP9DX with no questions asked.
Meanwhile some kid on Guam or Saipan who upgrades to Extra has to wait
until a JA fella croaks over to capture a desireable call (unless some
other JA captures it first for his reciprocal-cheat scheme).

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:06:31 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:

There are a small handful of "will-call" PO boxes in KH0 and KH2 which
are the "home address" for hundreds of JA and DU citizens.

That's correct. And in California and a few other places too.

Besides "souveniers" I mentioned reciprocal-licensing cheats, which is a
primary reason so many KH0/KH2 calls go to JA's..... Because JA only
has reciprocal agreements with a dozen or less countries, a US license
is an essential tool for JA DXpeditioners --- let's say they'd like to
do a DXpedition to V7 or VP9 . Their JA license is useless, but let
them flash a KH0 license and wham, he's VP9DX with no questions asked.

That's also correct.

But now that all the KH2 and KH0 extra calls are gone, the JA's are
having to suffer with continental U.S. calls or Hawaii calls, poor
babies. N3FW, AD7AL, NB6A, NH7IG, KK2H, K8VR, N1VF, etc.

No, Frank Wilson, you can't get your intials for your call sign, even
though you do REALLY live in Maryland. You have to wait until Fujimoto
Wazawari in Tokyo dies and then wait two more years.

My favorite at QRZ.COM:

"KK2H - Please send QSL to my home call, JL1UXH. If you send anything
to the address in the U.S., my cousin has to forward it to Japan."

That sucks. Hate wasting good Yen buying U.S. stamps.

The official position of the WTB in Washington, D.C., when I talked to
them on the phone about all of the above and a few other questionable
items a few years back was:

"It's not our job to verify addresses. It's our job to issue
licenses."

Which they continue to do, to anybody that wants one and who
passed a "test"....

So..... Any U.S. address + V.E. "exam" in a foreign country
(administered by foreign nationals who could never be extradited to
the U.S. to face charges for holding "funny" exams) = U.S. Extra Class
Souvenir Call Sign and International Reciprocal Radio Passport.

Good system. A U.S. V.E. makes a mistake on the paperwork and the FCC
nails his nuts to the wall, but nobody notices when Yoshi, Toshi, and
Schosi send their paperwork in from Japan.

W5YI or the ARRL make six bucks everytime a JA gets a U.S. license at
a VE test held in Tokyo, so everybody is fat, dumb, and happy. Turn
your head, cash the check, ten more extra's, what the heck......

Welcum to the Wunnerful Werld of Ham Radio. Nobody cares.

At least the FCC did do something about club calls. They took 42 of
them away from a JA few years back :-) But for some strange reason,
they let him keep his primary station license, a W9 extra class U.S.
call.

73, Jim KH2D

At least the FCC did do something about club calls. They took 42 of
them away from a JA few years back :-) But for some strange reason,
they let him keep his primary station license, a W9 extra class U.S.
call.

73, Jim KH2D


Maybe they should get calls like WJ#XXX, or KJ#XXX...
If the FCC decides that it's proper for foriegners to
get American ham licenses.....

Robert Casey wrote in news:PxAod.10361$Qh3.9984
@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:


At least the FCC did do something about club calls. They took 42 of
them away from a JA few years back :-) But for some strange reason,
they let him keep his primary station license, a W9 extra class U.S.
call.

73, Jim KH2D


Maybe they should get calls like WJ#XXX, or KJ#XXX...
If the FCC decides that it's proper for foriegners to
get American ham licenses.....


Foreigners have been able to get US licences for many decades. I'm one.

Only representatives of a foreign government can't get a US call. Try
reading Part 97.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

Subject: Get your Trophy US Extra Callsign (A KH0x call would be nice!)
From: Robert Casey
Date: 11/23/2004 12:13 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: .net


At least the FCC did do something about club calls. They took 42 of
them away from a JA few years back :-) But for some strange reason,
they let him keep his primary station license, a W9 extra class U.S.
call.

73, Jim KH2D


Maybe they should get calls like WJ#XXX, or KJ#XXX...
If the FCC decides that it's proper for foriegners to
get American ham licenses.....

Perhaps you'd consider a Constitutional Amendment that restricts US rights
and privileges to US citizens or persons legally landed here.

The FCC has already decided that it's proper for foreign nationals to have
US license if they complete the prerequisites for that license and exercise it
within the parameters of Part 97.
Citizenship is not one of them.

Specific callsigns would be discriminatory under present US
interpretations of the Constitution.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Get your Trophy US Extra Callsign (A KH0x call would be nice!)
From:
Date: 11/23/2004 12:01 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:06:31 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:

There are a small handful of "will-call" PO boxes in KH0 and KH2 which
are the "home address" for hundreds of JA and DU citizens.

That's correct. And in California and a few other places too.

Perhaps. But do we know "for sure" that all those people are truly not
residing here, Jim? Or they NEVER visit US soil and use those calls?

QST, CQ, etc are replete with stories of AMERICAN Amateurs scoring
"souvenier" calls. Why teh double standard over foreign persons who do the
same with American calls?

Besides "souveniers" I mentioned reciprocal-licensing cheats, which is a
primary reason so many KH0/KH2 calls go to JA's..... Because JA only
has reciprocal agreements with a dozen or less countries, a US license
is an essential tool for JA DXpeditioners --- let's say they'd like to
do a DXpedition to V7 or VP9 . Their JA license is useless, but let
them flash a KH0 license and wham, he's VP9DX with no questions asked.

That's also correct.

But now that all the KH2 and KH0 extra calls are gone, the JA's are
having to suffer with continental U.S. calls or Hawaii calls, poor
babies. N3FW, AD7AL, NB6A, NH7IG, KK2H, K8VR, N1VF, etc.

Sorry, Jim, but that's not accurate.

There ARE 2 x I calls left

No, Frank Wilson, you can't get your intials for your call sign, even
though you do REALLY live in Maryland. You have to wait until Fujimoto
Wazawari in Tokyo dies and then wait two more years.

My favorite at QRZ.COM:

"KK2H - Please send QSL to my home call, JL1UXH. If you send anything
to the address in the U.S., my cousin has to forward it to Japan."

That sucks. Hate wasting good Yen buying U.S. stamps.

The official position of the WTB in Washington, D.C., when I talked to
them on the phone about all of the above and a few other questionable
items a few years back was:

"It's not our job to verify addresses. It's our job to issue
licenses."

Which they continue to do, to anybody that wants one and who
passed a "test"....

So..... Any U.S. address + V.E. "exam" in a foreign country
(administered by foreign nationals who could never be extradited to
the U.S. to face charges for holding "funny" exams) = U.S. Extra Class
Souvenir Call Sign and International Reciprocal Radio Passport.

Good system. A U.S. V.E. makes a mistake on the paperwork and the FCC
nails his nuts to the wall, but nobody notices when Yoshi, Toshi, and
Schosi send their paperwork in from Japan.

W5YI or the ARRL make six bucks everytime a JA gets a U.S. license at
a VE test held in Tokyo, so everybody is fat, dumb, and happy. Turn
your head, cash the check, ten more extra's, what the heck......

Welcum to the Wunnerful Werld of Ham Radio. Nobody cares.

At least the FCC did do something about club calls. They took 42 of
them away from a JA few years back :-) But for some strange reason,
they let him keep his primary station license, a W9 extra class U.S.
call.

Do you (or anyone else) know for sure that these tests are not being held
in accordance with expected professional conduct, Jim? Hans' first post seems
to indicate that the test was being announced (and one would have to assume) in
accordance with FCC requirements.

Are any laws being broken?

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Get your Trophy US Extra Callsign (A KH0x call would be nice!)
From: (Steve Robeson K4YZ)
Date: 11/23/2004 4:45 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Subject: Get your Trophy US Extra Callsign (A KH0x call would be nice!)
From:
Date: 11/23/2004 12:01 AM Central Standard Time

But now that all the KH2 and KH0 extra calls are gone, the JA's are
having to suffer with continental U.S. calls or Hawaii calls, poor
babies. N3FW, AD7AL, NB6A, NH7IG, KK2H, K8VR, N1VF, etc.

Sorry, Jim, but that's not accurate.

There ARE 2 x I calls left.

And in both call areas. Granted, there are only four 2 x 1 KH2 calls left
(AH2L, AH2Q, WH2H and WH2M), but they are there none-the less. As I noted in
my other post, there are quite a few KH0 calls available..

I spot checked a few calls in the 2 x 2 "AH2" group, and found all of them
to be available, including AH2YZ.

I note with some irony that many of the 2 x 1 calls from KH2 were listed
as CONUS calls to WASP-sounding names. This included one in Florida, that same
person also "sponsoring" a Japanese sounding person's Guam-based address.
Wonder who's picking up THAT mail...???

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4YZ) wrote in message ...
Subject: Get your Trophy US Extra Callsign (A KH0x call would be nice!)
From: "KØHB"
Date: 11/22/2004 11:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: et

What's wrong with this Hamfest announcement?

Are you refering to the fact that it's held in one of the southern island
provinces of the Philippines, or that they fail to render oaths and allegiance
to Hans Brakob?

Or perhaps it's the FCC VEC testing...???

Had you been to the RP you'd know there are a great number of US residents
who hold dual citizenship, and VE testing is routinely held outside the
territorial limits of the United States for their benefit. However this is
also a moot point since US citizenship is not required for FCC licensure.

Furthermore, review of FCC rules and regulations does not specifiy where
VE exams must be held. It does require prior public announcement of testing to
be held, and it would appear that this announcement meets the test of US law.

Therefore, there seems to be nothing wrong with the announcement.

Your point was?

Steve, K4YZ

"You miss the point, Steve. The purpose of r.r.a.p. is no longer
discussion of policy, or learning something, or study of communications
theory.

The purpose is to FIGHT and to denegrate the dignity of all who do not
agree with you! Any other post is off topic and is not welcome here.

Get with the program. No one is "mistaken" or "partially correct" on
r.r.a.p. They either 100% totally agree with you, or they are "a lying,
scum sucking, bottom feeding no-code beeper." There is no in between,
and there must be at least one of each in every conversation here.
Anything which resembles a rational exchange of ideas and useful
information will either be ignored, or some enterprising induhvidual
will hijack the thread and turn it into an argument about Morse. No
other "Policy" conversation is allowed to survive unmolested.

72, de Hans, K0HB"