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#1
May 20th 05, 12:10 AM
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Poor Len, just can't keep on subject.
Dan/W4NTI wrote in message ups.com... From: on May 17, 12:20 pm Chad Wahls wrote: "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... Hi gang! When he read what was on the paper it did not include a callsign, where these legit ham radios? Did another fast code reader get a call sign in there? What you see on TV is taped and edited. They cut out things like the ID. Good old Jimmie Noserve jumping in as the "expert" on TV broadcast production (years of work in that...). :-) When is the actual NBC "Tonight Show" taped, Jimmie? At what time? How long before the NBC TV network feed? You've been there, right? Waiting in line along Alameda with the other tourists? Or do you have "insider information" again? :-) FCC requires that you ID at the *end* of a QSO, and every 10 minutes if the QSO goes on longer than 10 minutes. The clip is only 3 minutes long. Oh, my, yes, I'm sure the producers were most extremely careful to NEVER break any amateur radio regulations! [they might ALL lose their JOBS over such a gaffe!] :-) ======= The "Tonight Show" is ENTERTAINMENT. It isn't a journalism show. It isn't a documentary show. With the new production company featuring Jay Leno, the tone of the "Tonight Show" has taken on a sharper edge, more biting, as compared to De Cordova's company with the late, great Johnny Carson. Leno likes to twit fads and ignorant people. A current fad is "TXT-ing," that of sending short text messages over cell phones having that feature. It's a big thing among teeners all over the country now. [the USA has over 100 million cell phone subscriberships] Cell phones were never designed or implemented with text messaging in mind. They were done to extend the wired VOICE telephone. However, as the original analog cell phone converted to digital, a limited form of text messaging was possible and that was incorporated into subscribers' sets. Teeners picked up on that as a form of "very personal, like 'private talk' communication" that grown-ups and others couldn't immediately overhear. That 'privacy' thing is a big hit with teeners. ;-) "Morse code" is the first BIG instant-communications means and debuted 160 years ago. The On-Off signalling of "morse code" was the ONLY PRACTICAL means of using radio for communications, demonstrated 109 years ago. [most people are AWARE of "morse code" through the entertainment media and most have never experienced first-hand any live communications with that...they know it is OLD and obsolete for practical communications] It is a no-brainer that old, obsolete "morse code" is faster than the new fad of "TXT-ing" messages via a cell phone. The "demonstration contest" on the Leno show was a SETUP to deliberately POKE FUN at the fad of "TXT-ing." It wasn't anything else...just one more item of "humor" a la the Leno company to get the audience amused by poking fun at current fads. Ham radio morsemen Lifestylers want to wave flags about "morse code" and how triumphant was their "success" in that show-biz SETUP that was a guaranteed pratfall by the "TXT-ers." That short Entertainment bit was NEVER intended as a true contest. For a REAL contest, live, [rehearsed or not] manual communications means, pit an experienced typist pair using old, surplus 60 WPM teleprinters against a pair of experienced morsemen using either pencil-and-paper or manual typewriters to record received "morse code." Use "over-the-shoulder" live TV camera angles to show the "incoming" text for the audience...and to show the errors made by the morsemen. Will TV Entertainment shows ever consider such? No. There's no real Entertainment value except for a very small niche-interest fraction of an audience. This is less of a show-biz SETUP than modern "TXT-ing" versus 160-year-old manual "morse code." Audiences won't have anything to LAUGH at. Teleprinters are going to win out eventually since their throughput is sustainable and less error-prone than manual "morse code" means. The radio world has LONG AGO done the "contest" bit in actual practice and found "morse code" to be the LOSER. The rest of the radio world has GIVEN UP on "morse code" for communications. The die-hard fanatics in amateur radio still cling to "morse code" as "good" or even "best" because they are still lost in the fantasy and mythology of olden times. That's not SHOW-BIZ, Jimmie, that's REALITY. Show's over. Get a grip. Go home. |
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#2
May 20th 05, 06:37 AM
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From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Thurs,May 19 2005 11:10 pm
Poor Len, just can't keep on subject. Dannyboy, I was ON the subject. :-) Sigh...I'll have to repeat what I said... wrote in message oups.com... From: on May 17, 12:20 pm Chad Wahls wrote: "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... Hi gang! When he read what was on the paper it did not include a callsign, where these legit ham radios? Did another fast code reader get a call sign in there? What you see on TV is taped and edited. They cut out things like the ID. Good old Jimmie Noserve jumping in as the "expert" on TV broadcast production (years of work in that...). :-) When is the actual NBC "Tonight Show" taped, Jimmie? At what time? How long before the NBC TV network feed? You've been there, right? Waiting in line along Alameda with the other tourists? Or do you have "insider information" again? :-) FCC requires that you ID at the *end* of a QSO, and every 10 minutes if the QSO goes on longer than 10 minutes. The clip is only 3 minutes long. Oh, my, yes, I'm sure the producers were most extremely careful to NEVER break any amateur radio regulations! [they might ALL lose their JOBS over such a gaffe!] :-) ======= The "Tonight Show" is ENTERTAINMENT. It isn't a journalism show. It isn't a documentary show. With the new production company featuring Jay Leno, the tone of the "Tonight Show" has taken on a sharper edge, more biting, as compared to De Cordova's company with the late, great Johnny Carson. Leno likes to twit fads and ignorant people. A current fad is "TXT-ing," that of sending short text messages over cell phones having that feature. It's a big thing among teeners all over the country now. [the USA has over 100 million cell phone subscriberships] Cell phones were never designed or implemented with text messaging in mind. They were done to extend the wired VOICE telephone. However, as the original analog cell phone converted to digital, a limited form of text messaging was possible and that was incorporated into subscribers' sets. Teeners picked up on that as a form of "very personal, like 'private talk' communication" that grown-ups and others couldn't immediately overhear. That 'privacy' thing is a big hit with teeners. ;-) "Morse code" is the first BIG instant-communications means and debuted 160 years ago. The On-Off signalling of "morse code" was the ONLY PRACTICAL means of using radio for communications, demonstrated 109 years ago. [most people are AWARE of "morse code" through the entertainment media and most have never experienced first-hand any live communications with that...they know it is OLD and obsolete for practical communications] It is a no-brainer that old, obsolete "morse code" is faster than the new fad of "TXT-ing" messages via a cell phone. The "demonstration contest" on the Leno show was a SETUP to deliberately POKE FUN at the fad of "TXT-ing." It wasn't anything else...just one more item of "humor" a la the Leno company to get the audience amused by poking fun at current fads. Ham radio morsemen Lifestylers want to wave flags about "morse code" and how triumphant was their "success" in that show-biz SETUP that was a guaranteed pratfall by the "TXT-ers." That short Entertainment bit was NEVER intended as a true contest. For a REAL contest, live, [rehearsed or not] manual communications means, pit an experienced typist pair using old, surplus 60 WPM teleprinters against a pair of experienced morsemen using either pencil-and-paper or manual typewriters to record received "morse code." Use "over-the-shoulder" live TV camera angles to show the "incoming" text for the audience...and to show the errors made by the morsemen. Will TV Entertainment shows ever consider such? No. There's no real Entertainment value except for a very small niche-interest fraction of an audience. This is less of a show-biz SETUP than modern "TXT-ing" versus 160-year-old manual "morse code." Audiences won't have anything to LAUGH at. Teleprinters are going to win out eventually since their throughput is sustainable and less error-prone than manual "morse code" means. The radio world has LONG AGO done the "contest" bit in actual practice and found "morse code" to be the LOSER. The rest of the radio world has GIVEN UP on "morse code" for communications. The die-hard fanatics in amateur radio still cling to "morse code" as "good" or even "best" because they are still lost in the fantasy and mythology of olden times. That's not SHOW-BIZ, Dannyboy, that's REALITY. Show's over. Get a grip. Go home. |
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#3
May 20th 05, 01:34 PM
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#4
May 20th 05, 02:11 PM
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"K4YZ" wrote I guess the fact that the Morse guys did it faster and with 100% accuracy doesn't account for anything, eh? Doesn't account for much! It's kind of like a speed contest between a turtle and a snail --- mildly interesting, but inconsequential when comparing them to the speed of a cheetah. dit dit de Hans, K0HB |
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#5
May 17th 05, 04:52 PM
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Jim Hampton wrote: Hi gang! Just for some grins, check this out: http://www.lildobe.net/video/ It will take a bit of time for the folks on dial-up, but it is worth remembering that those two guys were not setting any speed records. It sounded about like the commercial CW circuits on the marine bands I listened to about 37 years ago .... The more things change, the more they stay the same. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA Here's some nuts & bolts details on the skit via the Elecraft & FRC reflectors: - - - - In case anyone is interested, here's something K6CTW posted on the Elecraft list last night. K3PH: - - - - Well to answer some of the questions I have received: 1. Ben was just getting ready to start entering the last 2 words when I was done. 2. None of us had any idea of the text we would be sending, not only for the "show" but also for the 3 rehersals (in which we smoked em every time) 3. Chip, K7JA was sending and I, Ken, K6CTW was receiving. 4. The radios were FT-817's provided by Chip's company Yaesu and HRO. Reason for that choice was that we needed the most frequency agile radios we could get. When I talked to the technical folks, they recommended we START at 2 meters and go up because of all of the lower frequency noise and RFI from the other TV equipment. When I got there, we took out a spectrum analyzer and studied all of the interference possibilities. I ended up choosing 432.200 MHz because that guaranteed no RFI from their equipment and we were high enough not to overload their front ends either. This was then verified and it was what we were using at the FT-817's lowest setting. 5. I already knew that 28-30 wpm would easily keep us in front of even the current world record holder, and also it is the fastest speed that I can make nice readable copy on paper with a "stick". 6. The telegrapher "costumes" were the producer's idea but it was fun for both Chip and I. 7. In rehersal I, K6CTW had a number of lines which would have really done a nice job of plugging ham radio and telegraphy however at our last dress rehersal, they decided to cut them out to make the segment "fit". (maybe next time). 8. I decided that I would be the receiver because I'm not bothered by crowd noise etc. If you enjoyed the segment, PLEASE email, write, etc. to let "The Tonight Show" know about it. That way we may have a chance for a bigger segment next time. Thanks for the kind comments from all and let's keep on having fun! (It is a hobby after all). 73, Ken, K6CTW - - - - - *A few more points for clarification: When my XYL, Connie, originally answered the call, at my home, from the producers of the show, she explained that I operated both codes and that I considered myself to be a good but not exceptional operator. However, she is the one who "sold" the producers that the skit could work. She also did a VERY credible job of explaining Morse telegraphy and the radio code and its uses. (You all might think to send her a thanks too as without her, this would never have happened cjcarroll2 at earthlink.net ) When they contacted me later that afternoon, I explained that my wife was correct, I am a competent CW and Morse operator. Your point is interesting in that they did try and get the fastest text messengers they could fly in. I did however explain that if the Tonight Show folks had been able to get the equivalent world record holder in CW to do this, it would have been at lmost TRIPLE the speed we were going at. The reason, as I have explained before, that we worked at about 28 or so wpm is that this is the fastest speed that I can make nice readable copy with a pencil as they did not have the ability to let me use a typewriter for copy (and I thought they were going to do a camera shot of my copy for verification). Also, since we did not have the time to set up headphones, I just added some extra volume for me, had the stage folks cut my mike (to prevent feedback and overload) and copied off of the speaker. To re-emphasize the point, I'm just an average CW op who ccasionally operates the CW SS QRP, whith my K2 of course, and really enjoys CW, and traffic handling. By the way, the radios used were Chip's not from Yaesu and the backup radios were from HRO. 73, Ken, K6CTW * - - - - w3rv |
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#6
May 18th 05, 01:30 AM
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"Jim Hampton" wrote:
Hi gang! Just for some grins, check this out: http://www.lildobe.net/video/ It will take a bit of time for the folks on dial-up, but it is worth remembering that those two guys were not setting any speed records. It sounded about like the commercial CW circuits on the marine bands I listened to about 37 years ago .... The more things change, the more they stay the same. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA Hello Jim. Is CW considered a binary of sorts? Are you enjoying your new internet pipe? |
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#7
May 18th 05, 04:26 AM
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"Steveo" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote: Hi gang! Just for some grins, check this out: http://www.lildobe.net/video/ It will take a bit of time for the folks on dial-up, but it is worth remembering that those two guys were not setting any speed records. It sounded about like the commercial CW circuits on the marine bands I listened to about 37 years ago .... The more things change, the more they stay the same. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA Hello Jim. Is CW considered a binary of sorts? Are you enjoying your new internet pipe? Hello, Mopar Some call it binary, but the fact that there are both short and long characters as well as short and long spaces (spacing between characters is shorter than spacing between words) leads me to not consider it "binary". When I wrote a Morse code decoder, I was using a base 3 system to decode it. At least if I recall correctly. I still have the source code but haven't looked at it for about a decade. I am *loving* this new pipe! I booted the computer, the wave file played as Windows started up, I hadn't clicked on Explorer, I bent over to pick up a magazine, and when I looked at the computer, the anti-virus had already downloaded and installed the update!  )73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
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#8
May 18th 05, 02:01 PM
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 03:26:26 GMT, "Jim Hampton"
wrote: Hello, Mopar Some call it binary, but the fact that there are both short and long characters as well as short and long spaces (spacing between characters is shorter than spacing between words) leads me to not consider it "binary". When I wrote a Morse code decoder, I was using a base 3 system to decode it. At least if I recall correctly. I still have the source code but haven't looked at it for about a decade. I am *loving* this new pipe! I booted the computer, the wave file played as Windows started up, I hadn't clicked on Explorer, I bent over to pick up a magazine, and when I looked at the computer, the anti-virus had already downloaded and installed the update! )Broadband is very nice. Once you get a taste of it, you'll never go back. Combined with wireless access points, I can move all over the house and access the internet with my laptop. I can access streaming audio to pipe to my computer and stereo in my garage, when I'm outside working. Internet video content can be viewed on the TV. I can even monitor the environmental controls in the house from remote locations. Technology is great. The future is now. Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj |
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#9
May 18th 05, 11:03 PM
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"Jim Hampton" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote: Hi gang! Just for some grins, check this out: http://www.lildobe.net/video/ It will take a bit of time for the folks on dial-up, but it is worth remembering that those two guys were not setting any speed records. It sounded about like the commercial CW circuits on the marine bands I listened to about 37 years ago .... The more things change, the more they stay the same. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA Hello Jim. Is CW considered a binary of sorts? Are you enjoying your new internet pipe? Hello, Mopar Some call it binary, but the fact that there are both short and long characters as well as short and long spaces (spacing between characters is shorter than spacing between words) leads me to not consider it "binary". When I wrote a Morse code decoder, I was using a base 3 system to decode it. At least if I recall correctly. I still have the source code but haven't looked at it for about a decade. Too much info you CW machine you! I've heard it wasn't intended asa binary but it's not totally unlike one. I am *loving* this new pipe! I booted the computer, the wave file played as Windows started up, I hadn't clicked on Explorer, I bent over to pick up a magazine, and when I looked at the computer, the anti-virus had already downloaded and installed the update! )73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA I can't imagine ever going back to dial-up unless I end up broke in my old age. Rock-on. |
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#10
May 19th 05, 01:08 PM
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On 18 May 2005 22:03:32 GMT, Steveo wrote:
I can't imagine ever going back to dial-up unless I end up broke in my old age. Rock-on. Don't worry Steveo, by the time you are in your "old age" a broadband video/voice/data line will be as common as standard phone service is today. Dave "Sandbagger" |
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