From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Thurs,May 19 2005 11:10 pm

Poor Len, just can't keep on subject.

Dannyboy, I was ON the subject. :-)

Sigh...I'll have to repeat what I said...

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: on May 17, 12:20 pm

Chad Wahls wrote:
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Hi gang!


When he read what was on the paper it did not include a callsign,
where
these legit ham radios? Did another fast code reader get a call
sign in
there?

What you see on TV is taped and edited. They cut out things like the
ID.

Good old Jimmie Noserve jumping in as the "expert" on
TV broadcast production (years of work in that...). :-)

When is the actual NBC "Tonight Show" taped, Jimmie?
At what time? How long before the NBC TV network
feed?

You've been there, right? Waiting in line along
Alameda with the other tourists? Or do you have
"insider information" again? :-)

FCC requires that you ID at the *end* of a QSO, and every 10 minutes
if
the QSO goes on longer than 10 minutes. The clip is only 3 minutes
long.

Oh, my, yes, I'm sure the producers were most extremely
careful to NEVER break any amateur radio regulations!
[they might ALL lose their JOBS over such a gaffe!] :-)

=======

The "Tonight Show" is ENTERTAINMENT. It isn't a
journalism show. It isn't a documentary show. With
the new production company featuring Jay Leno, the
tone of the "Tonight Show" has taken on a sharper edge,
more biting, as compared to De Cordova's company with
the late, great Johnny Carson. Leno likes to twit fads
and ignorant people.

A current fad is "TXT-ing," that of sending short text
messages over cell phones having that feature. It's a
big thing among teeners all over the country now. [the
USA has over 100 million cell phone subscriberships]

Cell phones were never designed or implemented with
text messaging in mind. They were done to extend the
wired VOICE telephone. However, as the original analog
cell phone converted to digital, a limited form of text
messaging was possible and that was incorporated into
subscribers' sets. Teeners picked up on that as a form
of "very personal, like 'private talk' communication"
that grown-ups and others couldn't immediately overhear.
That 'privacy' thing is a big hit with teeners. ;-)

"Morse code" is the first BIG instant-communications
means and debuted 160 years ago. The On-Off signalling
of "morse code" was the ONLY PRACTICAL means of using
radio for communications, demonstrated 109 years ago.
[most people are AWARE of "morse code" through the
entertainment media and most have never experienced
first-hand any live communications with that...they
know it is OLD and obsolete for practical communications]

It is a no-brainer that old, obsolete "morse code" is
faster than the new fad of "TXT-ing" messages via a cell
phone. The "demonstration contest" on the Leno show
was a SETUP to deliberately POKE FUN at the fad of
"TXT-ing." It wasn't anything else...just one more
item of "humor" a la the Leno company to get the
audience amused by poking fun at current fads.

Ham radio morsemen Lifestylers want to wave flags about
"morse code" and how triumphant was their "success" in
that show-biz SETUP that was a guaranteed pratfall
by the "TXT-ers." That short Entertainment bit was
NEVER intended as a true contest.

For a REAL contest, live, [rehearsed or not] manual
communications means, pit an experienced typist pair
using old, surplus 60 WPM teleprinters against a pair
of experienced morsemen using either pencil-and-paper
or manual typewriters to record received "morse code."
Use "over-the-shoulder" live TV camera angles to show
the "incoming" text for the audience...and to show
the errors made by the morsemen.

Will TV Entertainment shows ever consider such? No.
There's no real Entertainment value except for a very
small niche-interest fraction of an audience. This is
less of a show-biz SETUP than modern "TXT-ing" versus
160-year-old manual "morse code." Audiences won't
have anything to LAUGH at. Teleprinters are going to
win out eventually since their throughput is
sustainable and less error-prone than manual "morse
code" means.

The radio world has LONG AGO done the "contest" bit in
actual practice and found "morse code" to be the
LOSER. The rest of the radio world has GIVEN UP on
"morse code" for communications. The die-hard
fanatics in amateur radio still cling to "morse code"
as "good" or even "best" because they are still lost in
the fantasy and mythology of olden times.

That's not SHOW-BIZ, Dannyboy, that's REALITY. Show's
over. Get a grip. Go home.

On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:40:54 GMT, "Jim Hampton"
wrote:


"Steveo" wrote in message
...
Dave Hall wrote:
On 18 May 2005 22:03:32 GMT, Steveo wrote:

I can't imagine ever going back to dial-up unless I end up broke in
my old age. Rock-on.

Don't worry Steveo, by the time you are in your "old age" a broadband
video/voice/data line will be as common as standard phone service is
today.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

Yea it will probably be part of my wrist watch, and a keyboard will be
a thing of the past..


I always wanted a real Dick Tracy 2 way wrist tv. It is close ...


Its closer than you think. Once we create a WIFI-like wireless data
network to blanket most areas, this will become a reality. Cellular
can already do this to some extent, but the cellular network cannot
handle the increased bandwidth required for full motion video.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

wrote:
From: on May 17, 12:20 pm

The "Tonight Show" is ENTERTAINMENT.

Sure glad we have you here to remind us of that.

Leno likes to twit fads and ignorant people.

As opposed to YOU who IS a twit and an ignorant person.

A current fad is "TXT-ing," that of sending short text
messages over cell phones having that feature.

It is a no-brainer that old, obsolete "morse code" is
faster than the new fad of "TXT-ing" messages via a cell
phone. The "demonstration contest" on the Leno show
was a SETUP to deliberately POKE FUN at the fad of
"TXT-ing." It wasn't anything else...just one more
item of "humor" a la the Leno company to get the
audience amused by poking fun at current fads.

Surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre it was.....

I guess the fact that the Morse guys did it faster and with 100%
accuracy doesn't account for anything, eh?

Ham radio morsemen Lifestylers want to wave flags about
"morse code" and how triumphant was their "success" in
that show-biz SETUP that was a guaranteed pratfall
by the "TXT-ers." That short Entertainment bit was
NEVER intended as a true contest.

I K N E W that Lennie would try to talk his way out of this
one...!

For a REAL contest, live, [rehearsed or not] manual
communications means, pit an experienced typist pair
using old, surplus 60 WPM teleprinters against a pair
of experienced morsemen using either pencil-and-paper
or manual typewriters to record received "morse code."
Use "over-the-shoulder" live TV camera angles to show
the "incoming" text for the audience...and to show
the errors made by the morsemen.

They didn't do "over the shoulder" video on Leno, Lennie, however
the Morse guys apparently did 100% copy.

I was able to hear 90% from TV audio, and the receiving guy
apparently got it 100% right.

The radio world has LONG AGO done the "contest" bit in
actual practice and found "morse code" to be the
LOSER. The rest of the radio world has GIVEN UP on
"morse code" for communications. The die-hard
fanatics in amateur radio still cling to "morse code"
as "good" or even "best" because they are still lost in
the fantasy and mythology of olden times.

"fantasy"...?!?! "mythology"...?!?!

The Leno program shot a BIG hole in THOSE adjective for you,
Lennie.

That's not SHOW-BIZ, Jimmie, that's REALITY. Show's
over. Get a grip. Go home.

Lame Loser Lennie...Barking orders again...

Mad when no one listens or heeds him....

Maybe because he's wrong so often...???

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote


I guess the fact that the Morse guys did it faster and with 100%
accuracy doesn't account for anything, eh?


Doesn't account for much!

It's kind of like a speed contest between a turtle and a snail --- mildly
interesting, but inconsequential when comparing them to the speed of a cheetah.

dit dit

de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"K4YZ" wrote
I guess the fact that the Morse guys did it faster and
with 100% accuracy doesn't account for anything, eh?

Doesn't account for much!
It's kind of like a speed contest between a turtle and a snail --- mildly
interesting, but inconsequential when comparing them to the speed of a
cheetah.
de Hans, K0HB

Hans has it nailed pretty much. The value of the Leno
Sjow contest was the publicity for ham radio. Beyond
that, it was just a mildly interesting win for the hams.
Other than that, what else does the morse vs text
messaging contest win "account for"?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Bill Sohl wrote:

The value of the Leno
Sjow contest was the publicity for ham radio. Beyond
that, it was just a mildly interesting win for the hams.
Other than that, what else does the morse vs text
messaging contest win "account for"?

Actually, Bill, I think the main focus of the Leno show
contest and its Australian predecessor wasn't ham radio
at all.

There's a certain mindset that automatically connects
"newer" with "faster/better/easier". There's even a
word for it: "neophilia", meaning unreasonable love
of new things.

The Leno clip shows that mindset in action in the way
the woman being interviewed by Jay Leno immediately
assumes text messaging will be faster than Morse Code.
You also see it in the way the audience agrees. Text
messaging is more than 150 years newer than Morse code -
it must be faster, right?

Of course Jay knows the outcome is almost certain to be
very different - that's the whole point of the segment.
And when the Morse Code team wins the contest, the
point is clear: Newer isn't always better, and old isn't
always bad or useless.

--

There was a segment on the NPR radio quiz show "Wait, Wait,
Don't Tell Me" on May 14, in which a caller was asked to
identify the one true story out of three. One story
was about the Australian text-vs.-Morse contest, and the other
two were made-up along the lines of a new product having some
surprising characteristics, like tomatoes that were flammable.
(The caller got it right).

73 de Jim, N2EY

Bill Sohl wrote:
"K=D8HB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"K4YZ" wrote
I guess the fact that the Morse guys did it faster and
with 100% accuracy doesn't account for anything, eh?

Doesn't account for much!
It's kind of like a speed contest between a turtle and a snail ---
mildly
interesting, but inconsequential when comparing them to the speed
of a
cheetah.
de Hans, K0HB

Hans has it nailed pretty much. The value of the Leno
Sjow contest was the publicity for ham radio. Beyond
that, it was just a mildly interesting win for the hams.
Other than that, what else does the morse vs text
messaging contest win "account for"?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Bill, are you and Hans trying to tell me that scores and scores of
youthful white males aren't going to go out and nail the 5aka13-15WPM
Farnsworth exam at the next Hamfest???

I'm inclined to agree. What were they thinking???

wrote:
Bill Sohl wrote:

The value of the Leno
Sjow contest was the publicity for ham radio. Beyond
that, it was just a mildly interesting win for the hams.
Other than that, what else does the morse vs text
messaging contest win "account for"?

Actually, Bill, I think the main focus of the Leno show
contest and its Australian predecessor wasn't ham radio
at all.

There's a certain mindset that automatically connects
"newer" with "faster/better/easier". There's even a
word for it: "neophilia", meaning unreasonable love
of new things.

Like your new favorite word, "neocon?"

It is a shame that hams are riding a sinking ship to the bottom... just so
others can't ride... weird really... those old guys really have a axe to
grind with someone... but, maybe it is as they claim--their minds are gone
to alzheimers and they simply await for the need for morse to return...
however, long before then--amateur radio will be dead...

Regards,
John

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Hi gang!


Just for some grins, check this out:
http://www.lildobe.net/video/

It will take a bit of time for the folks on dial-up, but it is worth
remembering that those two guys were not setting any speed records. It
sounded about like the commercial CW circuits on the marine bands I
listened
to about 37 years ago ....

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

John Smith wrote:
It is a shame that hams are riding a sinking ship to the bottom...
just so
others can't ride... weird really... those old guys really have a axe
to
grind with someone... but, maybe it is as they claim--their minds are
gone
to alzheimers and they simply await for the need for morse to
return...
however, long before then--amateur radio will be dead...

Regards,
John

If it can't be the ham radio that they knew in their youth, they do
want it destroyed, gone, dead. Several have made such claims.