"Kim" wrote in message
.. .
For me, Memorial Day is more than honoring those who have died.
SNIP

There it is. She does not even know what Memorial Day means. No further
discussion needed.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
link.net...

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Kim" wrote in message
news
I thought of today and what it means and came across this article.

I'm sure the fine lady was an excellend riveter, but the copyrighted
article (you had permission to reproduce it?) has NOTHING to do with
Memorial Day, when we honor those who made the ultimate sacrifice.



That is typical W5TWIT, totally bassackwards thought pattern.

Dan/W4NTI



Sorry, Dan

I will respond on group to this.

Thanks for your non-thoughts.


ZBM-2,
Jim AA2QA

"Kim" wrote

For me, Memorial Day is more than honoring those who have died.

At the risk of appearing to be an unsensitive old galoot, and at the further
risk of alienating the 2 YL's who want to honor Rosie the Riveter on Memorial
day, I must strenuously disagree.

There are a lot of well-deserved "days" to honor veterans and servicemen in
general, and those others out of uniform who labored "in the cause", but
Memorial Day is NOT that day.

Memorial Day (originally called "Decoration Day" because the main activity
wasn't an extra Monday off for a barbeque in the back yard, but rather
decorating grave sites) was established specifically to remember those honored
comrades in arms who LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES for us. Let's never dilute that
sacred honor by turning Memorial Day into another "feel good day" for every
other patriotic group who wants to tag along on their glorious sacrifice.

The rest of us have Veterans Day/Armistice Day, Labor Day, Armed Forces Day,
Navy Day, etc. to recognize our contributions. Can we be content with that?

de Hans

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Kim" wrote

For me, Memorial Day is more than honoring those who have died.

At the risk of appearing to be an unsensitive old galoot, and at the further
risk of alienating the 2 YL's who want to honor Rosie the Riveter on
Memorial
day, I must strenuously disagree.

There are a lot of well-deserved "days" to honor veterans and servicemen in
general, and those others out of uniform who labored "in the cause", but
Memorial Day is NOT that day.

Memorial Day (originally called "Decoration Day" because the main activity
wasn't an extra Monday off for a barbeque in the back yard, but rather
decorating grave sites) was established specifically to remember those
honored
comrades in arms who LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES for us. Let's never dilute that
sacred honor by turning Memorial Day into another "feel good day" for every
other patriotic group who wants to tag along on their glorious sacrifice.

The rest of us have Veterans Day/Armistice Day, Labor Day, Armed Forces Day,
Navy Day, etc. to recognize our contributions. Can we be content with that?

de Hans

..

Point well made, Hans. Feel no qualms about alienating the 2 YL's. They
meant well despite their lack of direction on the true purpose of this day.

You are not insensitive. You are correct.

(a slow salute to those who gave all they had)

I don't think you're the slightest bit interested in whether you are
alienating me or not, Hans. So, your feeble attempt to reconcile the angst
of your original response to mine is lost, since I'm sure you're more
interested in the fact that Dee (someone who you are probably more inclined
to want to pat on the head) aligned herself along the lines of what I was
thinking.

In addition, no matter what the "original" Memorial Day was intended for.
We've come a long way in this country. As you mention, there are days
specifically angled at the military (Veterans Day, Armed Forces Day) wherein
it may be more appropriate to remember "just" our military heroes.

However, I doubt "back in the day" a second thought was even raised or given
to remember the "civilian" side of the military. A parallel might be
something along the lines of completely disregarding that many amateur radio
operators have been involved in the public safety efforts of our hometown
heroes--and I've never yet seen a major display of recognition or thanks for
that. It's true that our police forces and rescue forces, right down to the
911 call handlers and dispatchers locked away in the confines of the office,
are all paid and are "in there" for our safety, and confronting dangerous
situations. It's also true that there are many civilian aspects, amateur
radio for one, that are "in there" for our safety, and confronting dangerous
situations also.

You may wish to remember only those who are/were in the military--and of
those, maybe only persons who have perished, Hans. And, I point out, I
haven't jumped down your throat for a thing. I posted a wonderful article
about a fantastic person and you came back with nothing but hate, contempt,
and angst. You could have made the adult decision to allow someone else
their belief. You did not, and you still haven't "changed my mind." Do you
know why? Because my choice to remember another aspect of the defense and
continuation of the United States of America on a day like Memorial Day is
my personal choice. I'll point out here that there are many civilians who
have died in the support of our military, home and abroad. And, I did not
say I remember them at the absence of anything grand or proud about Memorial
Day. I remember our civilian contribution *in addition* to the military
one.

It is in the spirit of the times (the fact that we've "grown up" in this
country--note that the female contribution to the military has always been
there; but hardly has it always been celebrated and recognized as it is
today) that I take pause every Memorial Day and remember the people who
settled this land which, incidentally, were the North American Indians, the
people who conquered this land (our forefathers), the people who shaped our
nation (our ancestors), and the people whom have defended her since--our
military and others who "have served." And, I shall continue to do that,
Hans, as you shall continue in your traditional way.

As and aside, I find it interesting that you chose to point out "Veterans
Day/Armistice Day, Labor Day, Armed Forces Day, Navy Day, etc." (minus Labor
Day, incidentally) as days "the rest of us" have to celebrate others'
contributions. I would certainly not set aside Veterans Day to recognize
and celebrate the contributions of civilians, nor for Armed Forces or Navy
Day. For me (note the "for me," Hans?) those days are especially for those
who have served...in the military.

And, you are an in[sic]sensitive old gloat and that appeared long ago, not
because of this exchange.

Kim W5TIT


"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Kim" wrote

For me, Memorial Day is more than honoring those who have died.

At the risk of appearing to be an unsensitive old galoot, and at the
further
risk of alienating the 2 YL's who want to honor Rosie the Riveter on
Memorial
day, I must strenuously disagree.

There are a lot of well-deserved "days" to honor veterans and servicemen
in
general, and those others out of uniform who labored "in the cause", but
Memorial Day is NOT that day.

Memorial Day (originally called "Decoration Day" because the main activity
wasn't an extra Monday off for a barbeque in the back yard, but rather
decorating grave sites) was established specifically to remember those
honored
comrades in arms who LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES for us. Let's never dilute
that
sacred honor by turning Memorial Day into another "feel good day" for
every
other patriotic group who wants to tag along on their glorious sacrifice.

The rest of us have Veterans Day/Armistice Day, Labor Day, Armed Forces
Day,
Navy Day, etc. to recognize our contributions. Can we be content with
that?

de Hans

"Arf! Arf!" wrote in message
...


Point well made, Hans. Feel no qualms about alienating the 2 YL's. They
meant well despite their lack of direction on the true purpose of this
day.

You are not insensitive. You are correct.

(a slow salute to those who gave all they had)


How rather parental and condescending of you. Lack of direction, eh? What
an idiot...

Kim W5TIT

From: "Kim" on Tues 31 May 2005 12:07

I don't think you're the slightest bit interested in whether you are
alienating me or not, Hans. So, your feeble attempt to reconcile the angst
of your original response to mine is lost, since I'm sure you're more
interested in the fact that Dee (someone who you are probably more inclined
to want to pat on the head) aligned herself along the lines of what I was
thinking.

...

Well said, Kim. There's a strong undertone (perhaps "undertow")
of unwanted machismo present in this group of "mighty warriors."

In the morning edition of the Los Angeles Times, 30 May 2005,
was the story of Marie Michell Robinson, a 20 year old WASP
(Womens Air force Service Pilots) who died in the October 1944
crash of a B-25 twin-engine bomber she was co-piloting in the
Mojave Desert region of California.

WASPs were not military members but neither were they exactly
ciivlians. They earned a base pay of $250 a month but had to
pay all of the meal and lodging costs out of that (even if
stationed at military bases) and had to pay for their own
uniforms. Marie had been married just two weeks to Major
Hampton Robinson, an Army medical doctor.

The crash site was re-found by a trio of amateur aviation
"archaeologists" in southern California who had (on their own
time) searched for over a year to relocate the crash site.
The trio found it in early May. While Marie's body had been
recovered over a half century before, the trio uncovered her
personal belongings: A wedding band, bracelet (with name and
wings emblem), a WASP pin, nail file, and a wris****ch whose
hands had stopped at 1:40 PM, the time of the crash. Personal
items of the other two crew members were recovered and all are
being returned to their surviving family members.

WASPs were not given veterans' status until 1979.

Source: LA Times, 30 May 2005, Valley Edition, Section B,
page 1, written by H. G. Resa, Times Staff Writer; includes
photos of personal articles and one of the amateur aviation
archaeologists.


In addition, no matter what the "original" Memorial Day was intended for.
We've come a long way in this country. As you mention, there are days
specifically angled at the military (Veterans Day, Armed Forces Day) wherein
it may be more appropriate to remember "just" our military heroes.

During World War II the WASPs weren't military, weren't civilian,
yet they served the nation by giving up their time to aid the
war effort. Some gave everything: 38 WASPs died in that service.
They were not acknowledged as "veterans" by the U.S.
government until 25 years later.

This country is a bit late on following-through about "coming a
long way" but it just barely manages to keep up. Three civilians,
on their own voluntary time and not members of the military or
government, relocated the crash site and uncovered personal
belongings, found and notified remaining family members. They
honored the true spirit of Memorial Day.

Several individuals in here do NOT keep up and they pervert the
meaning of Memorial Day to serve their own egos. Most of those
were not even born when World War II ended...yet they seem to
demand strict adherence to Their "Rules" of memorialism. Some
have rather insane definitions of honoring the fallen such as
remembrance and honor being classified as a "dishonor."

All that in a newgroup supposedly about policies in a HOBBY
radio activity. Tsk.



ex-RA16408336, U.S. Army 1952-1960, Signal Corps, Sgt (E=5)

Christy D wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:07:05 GMT, Kim wrote:
[102 lines snipped]

The correctness of the original opinion is directly proportional to
the length of the attempted rebuttal.

inversely proportional?

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Kim" wrote

For me, Memorial Day is more than honoring those who have died.

At the risk of appearing to be an unsensitive old galoot, and at the
further risk of alienating the 2 YL's who want to honor Rosie the Riveter
on Memorial day, I must strenuously disagree.


You won't alienate me unless you stoop to the disgusting tactics of the
likes of Todd. I seriously doubt that you would ever fall to such depths.

There are a lot of well-deserved "days" to honor veterans and servicemen
in general, and those others out of uniform who labored "in the cause",
but Memorial Day is NOT that day.


There is no day to honor those not in uniform who gave all they could to
support the soldiers. I've searched every holiday list I can find and there
is nothing. It harms no one for me to choose to include those people in my
thoughts.

Memorial Day (originally called "Decoration Day" because the main activity
wasn't an extra Monday off for a barbeque in the back yard, but rather
decorating grave sites) was established specifically to remember those
honored comrades in arms who LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES for us. Let's never
dilute that sacred honor by turning Memorial Day into another "feel good
day" for every other patriotic group who wants to tag along on their
glorious sacrifice.


I do not believe it dilutes their sacred honor.

The rest of us have Veterans Day/Armistice Day, Labor Day, Armed Forces
Day, Navy Day, etc. to recognize our contributions. Can we be content
with that?


None of these honor the civilian contributions to support the soldiers.
Labor Day has nothing whatsoever to do with honor those who supported our
soldiers. Instead it was proposed in the 1880s by the labor unions and
adopted as a way to recognize the everyday worker for their contributions to
the economy and society.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Kim" wrote

For me, Memorial Day is more than honoring those who have died.

At the risk of appearing to be an unsensitive old galoot, and at the
further risk of alienating the 2 YL's who want to honor Rosie the Riveter
on Memorial day, I must strenuously disagree.

There are a lot of well-deserved "days" to honor veterans and servicemen
in general, and those others out of uniform who labored "in the cause",
but Memorial Day is NOT that day.

Memorial Day (originally called "Decoration Day" because the main activity
wasn't an extra Monday off for a barbeque in the back yard, but rather
decorating grave sites) was established specifically to remember those
honored comrades in arms who LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES for us. Let's never
dilute that sacred honor by turning Memorial Day into another "feel good
day" for every other patriotic group who wants to tag along on their
glorious sacrifice.

The rest of us have Veterans Day/Armistice Day, Labor Day, Armed Forces
Day, Navy Day, etc. to recognize our contributions. Can we be content
with that?

de Hans



And there it is.

Dan/W4NTI