K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
wrote:

Ham radio has certainly changed since I first heard about it
back in the 40s. So many uptight folks in it now, so easily
bruised, some wanting to bully, terrorize, and FIGHT!

Perhaps, Lennie, if certain mischevious scumbags weren't
looking to "bruise" people there wouldn't be such a propensity to be as defensive.

Such as the deceitful and misleading barbs YOU disseminate in this
forum.

Guess you now think it's wrong for one to defend one's self?

No one except Ghandi thinks that. But you make every posting as if it
were a personal attack to your very being and your way of life. You
made yourself a target, an easy target, by being such an idiot about
everything. Lighten up.

These are certainly not the good people that I first met when I became
a ham. The trouble with amateur radio started with the advent of the
no-code license. People began entering the service that did not
worship at the altar of St. Hiram, and did not kneel and kisst the feet
of Extras.

The problem didn't start with the No Code test...It started almost
20 years before that with the influx of 11 meter operators via the Bash
Book route and the subsequent codification of the "open pools".

Ah, yes, the "Riff-Raff" theory. Almost 20 years ago I used the ARRL's
"Now You're Talking" and the ARRL's non-Farnsworth Code tapes to enter
the amateur radio service via "open pools" testing.

From: "bb" on Sat 4 Jun 2005 17:22

wrote:
From: "bb" on Sat 4 Jun 2005 05:54
wrote:
From: "bb" on Fri 3 Jun 2005 03:51
wrote:
From: bb on Jun 2, 6:27 pm
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:


Ham radio has certainly changed since I first heard about it
back in the 40s. So many uptight folks in it now, so easily
bruised, some wanting to bully, terrorize, and FIGHT! :-)

These are certainly not the good people that I first met when I became
a ham. The trouble with amateur radio started with the advent of the
no-code license. People began entering the service that did not
worship at the altar of St. Hiram, and did not kneel and kisst the feet
of Extras.

Well, from my point of view, the change started a lot earlier.

The movement to implement a no-code amateur license class
was already underway at least a decade prior to 1990. The
olde-tyme hammes "dismissed" such riff-raff haughtily,
tried to bruise no-coders' knuckles with code keys and
trumpeting like King Kong (complete with chest-beating) or
the disdain of a sneering (but clumsy) Basil Fawlty in a
(funny) English sit-com.

The Ham Lifestylers created themselves around the 60s when
there was left-over money to spend for fancy radio toys and
time to do "radio pioneering" in "DXpeditions" and the
self-styled "radiosport contests. They were the "Greatest"
according to the ham publications, sort of like radio
versions of Cassius Marcellus Clay after his name change.
[look at Clay/Ali now...]

"Radio" in itself can be very fascinating in and of itself.
But, "radio" is really just one form of electronics and
cannot, nor should not, be rooted/shielded/isolated into the
old analog ways nor communications modes of six decades past.

One problem, quite evident in here, is the Lifestylers trying
to force everyone into THEIR way of thinking/doing as if that
were the "voice of the amateur community." There is NO real
voice, not even in the mighty national membership organization
of hams that "represents" (according to them) only 1 out of 5
U.S. amateur licensees. It is THEIR little clubhouse and they
are supremely, arrogantly intolerant of those who do not
acknowledge THEM as the "masters." Their feet MUST be kissed
and all MUST respect them...they keep telling others that in
so many different ways. THEY are "superior."

What is worse for the HOBBY is the attitudes of the Lifestylers
is clearly evident to all those outsiders who greatly out-
number them. The Lifestylers fear their Way of Life is
Threatened by "mere hobbyists" and that fear makes them blind
to their own actions and attitudes. They remain resolute and
arrogant, elitist in their self-styled "superiority" and
cannot recognize THEY are the greatest danger to the hobby.

wrote in message
ps.com...
From: "bb" on Sat 4 Jun 2005 17:22

wrote:
From: "bb" on Sat 4 Jun 2005 05:54
wrote:
From: "bb" on Fri 3 Jun 2005 03:51
wrote:
From: bb on Jun 2, 6:27 pm
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:


Ham radio has certainly changed since I first heard about it
back in the 40s. So many uptight folks in it now, so easily
bruised, some wanting to bully, terrorize, and FIGHT! :-)

These are certainly not the good people that I first met when I became
a ham. The trouble with amateur radio started with the advent of the
no-code license. People began entering the service that did not
worship at the altar of St. Hiram, and did not kneel and kisst the feet
of Extras.

Well, from my point of view, the change started a lot earlier.

The movement to implement a no-code amateur license class
was already underway at least a decade prior to 1990. The
olde-tyme hammes "dismissed" such riff-raff haughtily,
tried to bruise no-coders' knuckles with code keys and
trumpeting like King Kong (complete with chest-beating) or
the disdain of a sneering (but clumsy) Basil Fawlty in a
(funny) English sit-com.

The Ham Lifestylers created themselves around the 60s when
there was left-over money to spend for fancy radio toys and
time to do "radio pioneering" in "DXpeditions" and the
self-styled "radiosport contests. They were the "Greatest"
according to the ham publications, sort of like radio
versions of Cassius Marcellus Clay after his name change.
[look at Clay/Ali now...]

"Radio" in itself can be very fascinating in and of itself.
But, "radio" is really just one form of electronics and
cannot, nor should not, be rooted/shielded/isolated into the
old analog ways nor communications modes of six decades past.

One problem, quite evident in here, is the Lifestylers trying
to force everyone into THEIR way of thinking/doing as if that
were the "voice of the amateur community." There is NO real
voice, not even in the mighty national membership organization
of hams that "represents" (according to them) only 1 out of 5
U.S. amateur licensees. It is THEIR little clubhouse and they
are supremely, arrogantly intolerant of those who do not
acknowledge THEM as the "masters." Their feet MUST be kissed
and all MUST respect them...they keep telling others that in
so many different ways. THEY are "superior."

What is worse for the HOBBY is the attitudes of the Lifestylers
is clearly evident to all those outsiders who greatly out-
number them. The Lifestylers fear their Way of Life is
Threatened by "mere hobbyists" and that fear makes them blind
to their own actions and attitudes. They remain resolute and
arrogant, elitist in their self-styled "superiority" and
cannot recognize THEY are the greatest danger to the hobby.





Len. Question.

What is your callsign?

From: "bb" on Sun 5 Jun 2005 06:58


K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
wrote:

Ham radio has certainly changed since I first heard about it
back in the 40s. So many uptight folks in it now, so easily
bruised, some wanting to bully, terrorize, and FIGHT!

Perhaps, Lennie, if certain mischevious scumbags weren't
looking to "bruise" people there wouldn't be such a propensity to be as defensive.

Such as the deceitful and misleading barbs YOU disseminate in this
forum.

Guess you now think it's wrong for one to defend one's self?

No one except Ghandi thinks that. But you make every posting as if it
were a personal attack to your very being and your way of life. You
made yourself a target, an easy target, by being such an idiot about
everything. Lighten up.

:-)

These are certainly not the good people that I first met when I became
a ham. The trouble with amateur radio started with the advent of the
no-code license. People began entering the service that did not
worship at the altar of St. Hiram, and did not kneel and kisst the feet
of Extras.

The problem didn't start with the No Code test...It started almost
20 years before that with the influx of 11 meter operators via the Bash
Book route and the subsequent codification of the "open pools".

Ah, yes, the "Riff-Raff" theory. Almost 20 years ago I used the ARRL's
"Now You're Talking" and the ARRL's non-Farnsworth Code tapes to enter
the amateur radio service via "open pools" testing.

Ahem, "almost 20 years ago" would be about 1985. Class D CB
was created in 1958...FORTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO. 27 years in
between are unaccounted for in Stebie's statement.

"11 meter 'operators?'" The original "11 meter" CB users
required a license but never required any test. USERS.
Absolutely NO written form of "radio knowledge" was
required of any USER.

"Open pools?" There were "Q&A" books published before 1956
on ALL FCC written tests. BEFORE the Dick Bash publications.
That was way back in history when ALL the FCC radio regulations
were supplied as three-ring binder, loose-leaf pages.

Today's COMPLETE questions-and-answers pool is generated by
the VEC Question Pool Committee. Those answers have three
times the number of WRONG answers as there are correct ones.
The VEC QPC is composed entirely of already-licensed amateurs.
Those hams who bitch and moan about the "open" pools can go
and pish all over their ham VEC QPC "brethren" about the
questions.

The FCC requires only a MINIMUM of ten times the number of
questions for each class' written tests. There is NO LIMIT
on the MAXIMUM number of pool questions. The FCC doesn't
even require the KIND of questions...that's up to the QPC
to determine. Given the electronic distribution of text
and image material, there's not much limit on a QP size
and that could have 100 times the minimum number of
questions. The "riff-raff" aren't going to "easily pass"
by "memorizing" ALL those questions and the ONE correct
answer out of four.

Various electronic industry groups have stopped keeping
accurate tabulations on the number of "CB radios" either
imported or in-use. Some time in the past, an EIA
(Electronic Industries Association) estimated about five
million CBs "in-use." That way outnumbered the number of
oh-so-legal radio amateurs licensed at the time. Before
the FCC stopped publishing databases on PRIVATE land, sea,
and mobile radios NOT on ham bands, NOT on CB, those were
an equal number to the total of licensed radio amateurs.
There are about 100 million cellular telephone handsets
in public use (estimated from Bureau of Census reports
for 2003 on cell phone subscriptions) and the June, 2005,
issue of the IEEE Spectrum (membership magazine) states
that China has 300 million cell phones. Radios. Small
ones. Not even counting the FRS and GMRS handsets. NONE
of those requiring mighty test-taking of morse code
proficiency.

All of those non-ham radios are in use by "riff-raff?"
Dick Bash is "responsible" for all the Q&A books published
in the 1950s? Yes to all implies the mighty Stebie,
"speaker for all hams and the 'ham community'."

"Pbthpththth" says Bill the Cat. Hear the Opus.

wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun 5 Jun 2005 06:58


K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
wrote:

Ham radio has certainly changed since I first heard about it
back in the 40s. So many uptight folks in it now, so easily
bruised, some wanting to bully, terrorize, and FIGHT!

Perhaps, Lennie, if certain mischevious scumbags weren't
looking to "bruise" people there wouldn't be such a propensity to be as defensive.

Such as the deceitful and misleading barbs YOU disseminate in this
forum.

Guess you now think it's wrong for one to defend one's self?

No one except Ghandi thinks that. But you make every posting as if it
were a personal attack to your very being and your way of life. You
made yourself a target, an easy target, by being such an idiot about
everything. Lighten up.

:-)

8(

These are certainly not the good people that I first met when I became
a ham. The trouble with amateur radio started with the advent of the
no-code license. People began entering the service that did not
worship at the altar of St. Hiram, and did not kneel and kisst the feet
of Extras.

The problem didn't start with the No Code test...It started almost
20 years before that with the influx of 11 meter operators via the Bash
Book route and the subsequent codification of the "open pools".

Ah, yes, the "Riff-Raff" theory. Almost 20 years ago I used the ARRL's
"Now You're Talking" and the ARRL's non-Farnsworth Code tapes to enter
the amateur radio service via "open pools" testing.

Ahem, "almost 20 years ago" would be about 1985. Class D CB
was created in 1958...FORTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO. 27 years in
between are unaccounted for in Stebie's statement.

Steve is referring to 20 years prior to the advent of the No-Code
Technician, which happened sometime in the early 90's, so his reference
period is early 70's. Basically, he's saying that many, most, or all
hams entereing the ARS since the early 70's have Bashed it and are
worthless CBers.

Of course, Cecil put all that nonsense to rest years and years ago, but
some people pesrist with wrong thoughts.

"11 meter 'operators?'" The original "11 meter" CB users
required a license but never required any test. USERS.
Absolutely NO written form of "radio knowledge" was
required of any USER.

"Open pools?" There were "Q&A" books published before 1956
on ALL FCC written tests. BEFORE the Dick Bash publications.
That was way back in history when ALL the FCC radio regulations
were supplied as three-ring binder, loose-leaf pages.

ARRL, Ameco...

Today's COMPLETE questions-and-answers pool is generated by
the VEC Question Pool Committee. Those answers have three
times the number of WRONG answers as there are correct ones.
The VEC QPC is composed entirely of already-licensed amateurs.
Those hams who bitch and moan about the "open" pools can go
and pish all over their ham VEC QPC "brethren" about the
questions.

The FCC requires only a MINIMUM of ten times the number of
questions for each class' written tests. There is NO LIMIT
on the MAXIMUM number of pool questions. The FCC doesn't
even require the KIND of questions...that's up to the QPC
to determine. Given the electronic distribution of text
and image material, there's not much limit on a QP size
and that could have 100 times the minimum number of
questions. The "riff-raff" aren't going to "easily pass"
by "memorizing" ALL those questions and the ONE correct
answer out of four.

Various electronic industry groups have stopped keeping
accurate tabulations on the number of "CB radios" either
imported or in-use. Some time in the past, an EIA
(Electronic Industries Association) estimated about five
million CBs "in-use." That way outnumbered the number of
oh-so-legal radio amateurs licensed at the time. Before
the FCC stopped publishing databases on PRIVATE land, sea,
and mobile radios NOT on ham bands, NOT on CB, those were
an equal number to the total of licensed radio amateurs.
There are about 100 million cellular telephone handsets
in public use (estimated from Bureau of Census reports
for 2003 on cell phone subscriptions) and the June, 2005,
issue of the IEEE Spectrum (membership magazine) states
that China has 300 million cell phones. Radios. Small
ones. Not even counting the FRS and GMRS handsets. NONE
of those requiring mighty test-taking of morse code
proficiency.

All of those non-ham radios are in use by "riff-raff?"
Dick Bash is "responsible" for all the Q&A books published
in the 1950s? Yes to all implies the mighty Stebie,
"speaker for all hams and the 'ham community'."

Bash was a ham. A Mighty Morseman

"Pbthpththth" says Bill the Cat. Hear the Opus.

bb wrote:
wrote:

Ahem, "almost 20 years ago" would be about 1985. Class D CB
was created in 1958...FORTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO. 27 years in
between are unaccounted for in Stebie's statement.

Steve is referring to 20 years prior to the advent of the No-Code
Technician, which happened sometime in the early 90's, so his reference
period is early 70's. Basically, he's saying that many, most, or all
hams entereing the ARS since the early 70's have Bashed it and are
worthless CBers.

No...BRIAN BURKE is calling them "worthless CBers"...

Steve Robeson said nothing of the sort.

What Steve Robeson DID say was that certain downward trends in the
Amateur Service began with the advent of the "Bash Books" and the
subsequent "opening" of the question pools.

"Open pools?" There were "Q&A" books published before 1956
on ALL FCC written tests. BEFORE the Dick Bash publications.
That was way back in history when ALL the FCC radio regulations
were supplied as three-ring binder, loose-leaf pages.

ARRL, Ameco...

Nice try.

Yes, both publishers printed books that closely outlined the
exams.

NONE of them were verbatim recreations of the FCC examinations. I
used the Ameco texts while studying for my General and Advanced tests.
Neither had the questions I saw on those exams.

All of those non-ham radios are in use by "riff-raff?"
Dick Bash is "responsible" for all the Q&A books published
in the 1950s? Yes to all implies the mighty Stebie,
"speaker for all hams and the 'ham community'."

Bash was a ham. A Mighty Morseman

Bash was a pig. A disgusting profiteer. Unfortunately every
profession has theirs. Bash, along with Fred Maia and Gordon West are
ours.

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
wrote:

Ahem, "almost 20 years ago" would be about 1985. Class D CB
was created in 1958...FORTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO. 27 years in
between are unaccounted for in Stebie's statement.

Steve is referring to 20 years prior to the advent of the No-Code
Technician, which happened sometime in the early 90's, so his reference
period is early 70's. Basically, he's saying that many, most, or all
hams entereing the ARS since the early 70's have Bashed it and are
worthless CBers.

No...BRIAN BURKE is calling them "worthless CBers"...

Steve Robeson said nothing of the sort.

Welp, whatever you said it was wrong. Just plain wrong.

What Steve Robeson DID say was that certain downward trends in the
Amateur Service began with the advent of the "Bash Books" and the
subsequent "opening" of the question pools.

You were the original data point that began the trend.

"Open pools?" There were "Q&A" books published before 1956
on ALL FCC written tests. BEFORE the Dick Bash publications.
That was way back in history when ALL the FCC radio regulations
were supplied as three-ring binder, loose-leaf pages.

ARRL, Ameco...

Nice try.

Yes, both publishers printed books that closely outlined the
exams.

Bingo.

NONE of them were verbatim recreations of the FCC examinations. I
used the Ameco texts while studying for my General and Advanced tests.
Neither had the questions I saw on those exams.

I guess you think that makes you better than the amateurs that used the
questions pools?

All of those non-ham radios are in use by "riff-raff?"
Dick Bash is "responsible" for all the Q&A books published
in the 1950s? Yes to all implies the mighty Stebie,
"speaker for all hams and the 'ham community'."

Bash was a ham. A Mighty Morseman

Bash was a pig. A disgusting profiteer.

Hi!

Unfortunately every
profession has theirs. Bash, along with Fred Maia and Gordon West are
ours.

Steve, K4YZ

What of the ARRL? They also publish the question pools and sell them.

From: "bb" on Sun,Jun 5 2005 8:44 pm


wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun 5 Jun 2005 06:58
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
wrote:


Ham radio has certainly changed since I first heard about it
back in the 40s. So many uptight folks in it now, so easily
bruised, some wanting to bully, terrorize, and FIGHT!

Perhaps, Lennie, if certain mischevious scumbags weren't
looking to "bruise" people there wouldn't be such a propensity to be as defensive.

Such as the deceitful and misleading barbs YOU disseminate in this
forum.

Guess you now think it's wrong for one to defend one's self?

No one except Ghandi thinks that. But you make every posting as if it
were a personal attack to your very being and your way of life. You
made yourself a target, an easy target, by being such an idiot about
everything. Lighten up.

:-)

8(

The problem didn't start with the No Code test...It started almost
20 years before that with the influx of 11 meter operators via the Bash
Book route and the subsequent codification of the "open pools".

Ah, yes, the "Riff-Raff" theory. Almost 20 years ago I used the ARRL's
"Now You're Talking" and the ARRL's non-Farnsworth Code tapes to enter
the amateur radio service via "open pools" testing.

Ahem, "almost 20 years ago" would be about 1985. Class D CB
was created in 1958...FORTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO. 27 years in
between are unaccounted for in Stebie's statement.

Steve is referring to 20 years prior to the advent of the No-Code
Technician, which happened sometime in the early 90's, so his reference
period is early 70's. Basically, he's saying that many, most, or all
hams entereing the ARS since the early 70's have Bashed it and are
worthless CBers.

Stebie doesn't have the word-laying savvy to express much except
contempt for those who do not agree with him.

The no-code-test Technician became effective in 1991. Going back
20 years before that would start at 1971. "Eleven meter" CB had
already existed for 13 years by 1971 and the off-shore transceivers
were already well-established in the radio market then. An early
designer-manufacturer of CB radios, General Radiotelephone Co., of
Burbank, CA, has already filed for bankruptcy and closed its
corporation and location on Magnolia Blvd; the half-completed
mast is still visible on the roof of that building today.

Of course, Cecil put all that nonsense to rest years and years ago, but
some people pesrist with wrong thoughts.

I know. Many of us tried to show the truth in the non-amateur radio
world. To little avail. Those who continue their myths will have
none of the truth.

"11 meter 'operators?'" The original "11 meter" CB users
required a license but never required any test. USERS.
Absolutely NO written form of "radio knowledge" was
required of any USER.

"Open pools?" There were "Q&A" books published before 1956
on ALL FCC written tests. BEFORE the Dick Bash publications.
That was way back in history when ALL the FCC radio regulations
were supplied as three-ring binder, loose-leaf pages.

ARRL, Ameco...

For amateur radio written exams, yes. There was an earlier
publisher of Q&A books which covered many different topics,
including the FCC Commercial License written exams. I tried
to obtain one of those in late February, 1956, couldn't and
resorted to simply studying the entirety of the available FCC
radio regulations of that time (quite small in comparison to
the five-volume bound set of Title 47 today).



All of those non-ham radios are in use by "riff-raff?"
Dick Bash is "responsible" for all the Q&A books published
in the 1950s? Yes to all implies the mighty Stebie,
"speaker for all hams and the 'ham community'."

Bash was a ham. A Mighty Morseman

Irrelevant to those who need Hate Objects. :-)

Just as irrelevant to the fact that Bruce Perens, founder of
the No Code International interest group was a 20 WPM code-
tested Amateur Extra BEFORE he founded that group. :-)

Class C and D Citizens Band Radio Service is close to the
half-century mark and most of its detractors (and haters)
were either unborn or had not obtained any license when it
was created. "Class C" exists, expanded in permissible
frequencies, as "Radio Control Radio Service" in Part 95.
"Class D" is in the same part and called simply "Citizens
Band Radio Service."

Class A and B, on low UHF frequencies was discontinued
many years before. It would have been a year-plus older
than Class C and D had it continued. NONE of the original
four Citizens Band classes required any user to take any
written test for a CB license. Such licenses were
discontinued by the FCC when the number of CB users
reached about a half million or so; exact number is
irrelevant with the near-present-day number of CB radios
being estimated at 5 MILLION in use.


"Pbthpththth" says Bill the Cat. Hear the Opus.

wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,Jun 5 2005 8:44 pm

Ahem, "almost 20 years ago" would be about 1985. Class D CB
was created in 1958...FORTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO. 27 years in
between are unaccounted for in Stebie's statement.

Steve is referring to 20 years prior to the advent of the No-Code
Technician, which happened sometime in the early 90's, so his reference
period is early 70's. Basically, he's saying that many, most, or all
hams entereing the ARS since the early 70's have Bashed it and are
worthless CBers.

Stebie doesn't have the word-laying savvy to express much except
contempt for those who do not agree with him.

Some of the world's greatest "word-layers" were also some of it's
most horrific personalites..."you-know-who" in central Europe in the
late 20's to mid-forties comes to mind.

The no-code-test Technician became effective in 1991.

Yes. Your point?

Going back 20 years before that would start at 1971.

Very good, Lennie! They teach you that at night school engineer
class?

"Eleven meter" CB had
already existed for 13 years by 1971 and the off-shore transceivers
were already well-established in the radio market then.

Uh huh...waiting for you to make a point other than mindlessly FOD
the group with irrelevent historical tidbits.

I am wondering how CB has anything to do with MY comments,
since I never mentioned CB radio...

An early
designer-manufacturer of CB radios, General Radiotelephone Co., of
Burbank, CA, has already filed for bankruptcy and closed its
corporation and location on Magnolia Blvd; the half-completed
mast is still visible on the roof of that building today.

Whew...

For a minute there I thought you might surprise me and actaully
make a point...A RELATIVE point, that is...!

Of course, Cecil put all that nonsense to rest years and years ago, but
some people pesrist with wrong thoughts.

I know. Many of us tried to show the truth in the non-amateur radio
world. To little avail. Those who continue their myths will have
none of the truth.

And there are non-Amateurs in this forum who would create and
disseminate their own myths.

Like Lennie Anderson.

"11 meter 'operators?'" The original "11 meter" CB users
required a license but never required any test. USERS.
Absolutely NO written form of "radio knowledge" was
required of any USER.

"Open pools?" There were "Q&A" books published before 1956
on ALL FCC written tests. BEFORE the Dick Bash publications.
That was way back in history when ALL the FCC radio regulations
were supplied as three-ring binder, loose-leaf pages.

ARRL, Ameco...

For amateur radio written exams, yes. There was an earlier
publisher of Q&A books which covered many different topics,
including the FCC Commercial License written exams. I tried
to obtain one of those in late February, 1956, couldn't and
resorted to simply studying the entirety of the available FCC
radio regulations of that time (quite small in comparison to
the five-volume bound set of Title 47 today).

Whoa! We're (not) impressed.

BTW...I point out that I studied and prepared for my license the
old fashion way and you make light of it...So...What are we to do with
YOU, Licenseless One?

All of those non-ham radios are in use by "riff-raff?"
Dick Bash is "responsible" for all the Q&A books published
in the 1950s? Yes to all implies the mighty Stebie,
"speaker for all hams and the 'ham community'."

Bash was a ham. A Mighty Morseman

Irrelevant to those who need Hate Objects.

Every venue has it's bad apple...Amateur Radio had Bash...RRAP has
Lennie.

Just as irrelevant to the fact that Bruce Perens, founder of
the No Code International interest group was a 20 WPM code-
tested Amateur Extra BEFORE he founded that group.

Good for him.

He had an ideal, prepared it, presented it, and used it
effectively.

In the process, he didn't violate a single American law, nor did
he find it necessary to villify, denigrate or otherwise demean other
Amateur Radio operators in the proces

Class C and D Citizens Band Radio Service is close to the
half-century mark and most of its detractors (and haters)
were either unborn or had not obtained any license when it
was created. "Class C" exists, expanded in permissible
frequencies, as "Radio Control Radio Service" in Part 95.
"Class D" is in the same part and called simply "Citizens
Band Radio Service."

Again, I am sure there is a point to be made here, however all I
see is more useless

Class A and B, on low UHF frequencies was discontinued
many years before. It would have been a year-plus older
than Class C and D had it continued. NONE of the original
four Citizens Band classes required any user to take any
written test for a CB license. Such licenses were
discontinued by the FCC when the number of CB users
reached about a half million or so; exact number is
irrelevant with the near-present-day number of CB radios
being estimated at 5 MILLION in use.

And we're S T I L L waiting for some point to be made.

WHAT does the history of the Citizen's Radio Service have to do
with changes in the AMATEUR Radio Service due to Bash/NCT?

"Pbthpththth" says Bill the Cat. Hear the Opus.

Actually, Lennie, it's "Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft"

LenNeverSayInTenWordsWhatYouCanObfus...

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
wrote:

Ahem, "almost 20 years ago" would be about 1985. Class D CB
was created in 1958...FORTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO. 27 years in
between are unaccounted for in Stebie's statement.

Steve is referring to 20 years prior to the advent of the No-Code
Technician, which happened sometime in the early 90's, so his reference
period is early 70's. Basically, he's saying that many, most, or all
hams entereing the ARS since the early 70's have Bashed it and are
worthless CBers.

No...BRIAN BURKE is calling them "worthless CBers"...

Steve Robeson said nothing of the sort.

Welp, whatever you said it was wrong. Just plain wrong.

"...whatever you said..." ?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
! ! ! !

YOU are the person who refered to other radio operators as
"WORTHLESS"...

And I NEVER called ANY operator, CB, Amateur or otherwise
"worthless".

Can't even keep two days worth of exchanges straight, can you,
Burke..?!?! Can't even keep YOUR stories straight!

Once again, for your edification:

"What Steve Robeson DID say was that certain downward trends in the
Amateur Service began with the advent of the "Bash Books" and the
subsequent "opening" of the question pools"

What Steve Robeson DID say was that certain downward trends in the
Amateur Service began with the advent of the "Bash Books" and the
subsequent "opening" of the question pools.

You were the original data point that began the trend.

No...I established a time line based upon another event. I had
nothing to do with it, Brain. I "experienced" it, but was not aprt of
it.

"Open pools?" There were "Q&A" books published before 1956
on ALL FCC written tests. BEFORE the Dick Bash publications.
That was way back in history when ALL the FCC radio regulations
were supplied as three-ring binder, loose-leaf pages.

ARRL, Ameco...

Nice try.

Yes, both publishers printed books that closely outlined the
exams.

Bingo.

What "bingo"...?!?!

They did not then publish the verbatim questions and answers to the
FCC tests. FCC regulations at the time forbade it.

NONE of them were verbatim recreations of the FCC examinations. I
used the Ameco texts while studying for my General and Advanced tests.
Neither had the questions I saw on those exams.

I guess you think that makes you better than the amateurs that used the
questions pools?

Nope. Not in the least. But it DOES mean I know more about radio
communications because I actually learned the material.

All of those non-ham radios are in use by "riff-raff?"
Dick Bash is "responsible" for all the Q&A books published
in the 1950s? Yes to all implies the mighty Stebie,
"speaker for all hams and the 'ham community'."

Bash was a ham. A Mighty Morseman

Bash was a pig. A disgusting profiteer.

Hi!

Shouldn't that have been at the opening of the post?

Unfortunately every
profession has theirs. Bash, along with Fred Maia and Gordon West are
ours.

Steve, K4YZ

What of the ARRL? They also publish the question pools and sell them.

I wish you could have been in SoCal the same time I was, Brain...GW
flooded SoCal with these "operators" who took his weekend "radio
school" and walked out with an Amateur license.

Yes...the ARRL sells them too...Point taken.

Steve, K4YZ

I think the length of your reply would please Len.