"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was referring to the fact that W/K prefix followed by a number then two
or three letters is considered an old timer callsign.

The fact that the FCC has totally screwed that up is not relevant.

Dan/W4NTI

Nice spin, loser. What you think is not relevant.

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

VIPPY! Your're back!

Hello Vipul.

The definition you quoted says"Amateur Operator". There is no mention
of the word "ham" in the definition.

Oh crap....same old rhetoric...I see you haven't changed!

He see's that you haven't either.

"Ham" is a label given to certain people with a certain belief system.

What "belief systems", Vipul...?!?!

"Belief systems" is a catch-phrase you usurped from Lennie
Anderson. Lennie is NOT a good role model to scam lines from.

People don't have belief systems?

Hams like antennas, and Morse code. They usually don't like the
technical aspect of the hobby (except for antennas).

(Here we go again....)

(There YOU go again...)

Who says so, Vipul...?!?! What organization, rule or entity made
this "rule"...?!?! I've asked you this before and you've never
explained yourself.

Yet I see no mention of a "rule." Whatever are you talking about,
Steve?

They are often older, and male.

So...Shall we implement euthansia and castration if a licensee
dares to get older or have the wrong chromosomes...?!?!

Shall you?

They like to use the terminology.

Uhhhhh...yyyeahhhh...It's called "communication"...In order to
effectively express and exchange ideas there has to be some agreed upon
language and terms relating to the intended topic, Vipul.

QSL.

Please name me ANY sport, science, avocation, passtime or other
human pursuit that DOESN'T have 'terminology', Vipul.

So amateurs have terminology and -don't- like to use it? Are you
agreeing with Vipul or disagreeing with Vipul???

They like to discuss ham politics.

As opposed to roast beef politics...?!?!

Chicken politics. Squawk, squawk. Like saying "Lessee....430" without
explanation.

There are other characteristics of a ham, which I will not list.

Of course not.

Of course.

Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

Yes, this is absolutely required to be accepted as a ham.

Who says? Where is this stated? In what FCC rule or ARRL by-law
is it established? Is it in invisible ink on my FCC Form 660?

I disagree with Vipul on this one. Five WPM wasn't enough to be
accepted as a full ham by many practioners of the ancient art.

Is it being accepted by certain other hams?

Hams share certain beliefs and characteristics.

Baptists share certain beliefs and characteristics. So do
dentists. Police, Fire and EMS personnel have their own beliefs. So
do Hindus, NASCAR drivers and cat lovers.

What belief system do you share?

What was YOUR point?

What was your point in saying, "Lessee....430?"

Without acceptance, one cannot be a "true" ham.

Sure you can.

I agree with Steve on this one. You just have to ignore the
knuckle-heads that would put you down for not attaining ever higher
Morse Code speeds.

Lennie doesn't accept ANY of us...

Not true.

Does that mean we don't exist?

You exist in a negative way.

Once and for all, Vipul...

There is no one person, group, organization, entity or "belief
system" that dictates what makes a "good ham".

Not according to Larry, Dick, or Kelly.

Unfortunately, if only more amateur on here would come forward and
condemn those who exhibit the characteristics of a "bad ham," such as
yourself...

Could it be the date they were first licensed, or maybe the class of
license they hold now?

Sorry, I do not know or understand the question.

Did you need it in another language? Seemed pretty straight
forward to me.

Bruce has his Extra. Seems like most of the trouble-makers are Extras.

As for the class of
licence they hold right now, Morse code is required above the
Technician class. Those in the Technician class can still be hams, as
long as they agree with ham beliefs. One of those beliefs, of course,
is that they will eventually learn Morse code.

You keep saying this but you never explain yourself.

The have to profess the faith, and frequently claim that they are
"studying the Morse Code."

Can somebody who gets into amateur radio today with the "give away
license" ever be considered a real ham?

The license is a "give away" - no disputing that.

Sure there is.

Todays entry level license exam contains far more breadth and depth of
radio communications knowledge than any entry level license in the
history of amateur radio.

To the best of my knowledge no one is "given" a license. Everyone
is required to take one of several written exams. If they opt to
operate on HF, they must take a Morse Code exam.

Captain Obvious.

And despite the fact that the license IS markedly easier to get
these days, people still manage to fail the exams. Ergo it's NOT a
"giveaway"...

Far more difficult...

How did you know about the vanity license?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh...read about it?

K4CAP...?

Maybe it was in some of that "terminology" you seem to think is so
bad...

Steve, K4YZ

Terminology like, "Lessee....430?"

Shucks, since my yf (KB9MII) and I met at a hamvention, does that mean we
need to split up -- even if I still think she's the sexiest woman left of
the Mississippi?

{;-)


Jim


I wasn't groaning about the thread but about Vipul rejoining the group
with the same old tired rants that he had before. He thinks that hamfests
and ham radio should be a place where he can pick up sexy girls. Since he
keeps getting that illusion shattered, he rants and raves about it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...

What makes a person a real ham?
Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

A "Real Ham" is proficient in all forms and modes of communications. One of
the primary purposes of Amateur Radio is to provide a pool of qualified
radio operators in the event of emergency. Thus being able to use Morse
Code at anything but training wheel speed is a big plus.



Is it being accepted by certain other hams?


No, not entirely. But being able to assimilate with minimum friction is a
big help. In otherwords don't show up with a "I know it all attitude" and
have a bit of respect for those that have been there before you.

Would that be the "give away license" that you made reference to in
another post? You do realize that there are still Tech's out there that
took the old Novice and then upgraded to Tech by doing the general theory!

Could it be the date they were first licensed, or maybe the class of
license they hold now?


That does have a bearing on things. Don't come on with the above attitute
holding a Technician ticket for 6 months, and expect to be treating with
respect. Respect is earned me boy.


Can a person climb to Extra with today's test and be considered a real
ham?


No, not really. Must I elaborate on the obvious?

If one does that wonderous dead and then EARNS the respect of those other
hams. A lot of what I said above is bypassed. Respect, Earned those are
the key words here.


Is yodoc aka K3LT a real ham, or the one to determine who is a real ham?


Don't know the man.


Can somebody who gets into amateur radio today with the "give away
license" ever be considered a real ham?


Sure...see above.


Does getting a vanity license that is an older call such as K8*** or
WD8*** make you a real ham?


A WD8? a joke right? Try W or K ...one by two or three, non vanity of
course. Thats an old timer.

But there are too many no code tech's that get a vanity call now adays.

As a matter of fact the FCC once considered the W/K prefix "prefered calls".
And at one time the FCC required you to change your call if you permanetly
moved to another district. And in deference to the W/K....if you had one
they would issue another from the prefered block.

Which is how I got my present call (W4NTI) because I used to have K8BHH.
Course that all went to crap with the alphabet soup system of today.

There's an Extra near here that still has his K8*** call, he was a tech
until the early nineties and upgraded to Extra when it was still 20 wpm.


I didn't take the free upgrade to general, so would this make me a cb'er
or no coder as the toad says?


No, just a no coder. Unless of course you did pass a 5wpm test. Then you
would be a Technician. Hi hi.

I took the 5wpm when I did my novice.


I'm not being a troll, I would really like to know the answers to this!



Hope that helps a bit.

Dan/W4NTI

Mike Coslo wrote:

KC8GXW wrote:

What makes a person a real ham?


Being cured and smoked over a real hickory wood fire....

Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?


8.5 wpm, if my numbers are correct.

Is it being accepted by certain other hams?


Who on earth would care about that?

Could it be the date they were first licensed, or maybe the class of
license they hold now?


Only people who were licensed on February 15th, 1955 are real hams. All
others are a sham.

Can a person climb to Extra with today's test and be considered a real
ham?


You have to take the tests administered in 1932.


Is yodoc aka K3LT a real ham, or the one to determine who is a real ham?


Good lord, he hasn't posted here in a long time, why bring Larry
into the mix?

I wondered if anybody remembered him! I know Kim would. I asked about
Larry because in his book, you couldn't be a "real ham" unless you
thought like he did, of course you needed to enjoy CW to be real!

Can somebody who gets into amateur radio today with the "give away
license" ever be considered a real ham?


You don't know the half of it! I was forced at gunpoint to take the
ridiculously easy tests available today. I wanted to take an older test,
but the bleary eyed VE, cocked the trigger on his 45, and I knew it was
to either become a nickel extra, or die!


Does getting a vanity license that is an older call such as K8*** or
WD8*** make you a real ham?


Hey! I'm thinking about getting a Vanity. Be nice!


I didn't take the free upgrade to general, so would this make me a
cb'er or no coder as the toad says?


Everyone is a CB'er.

I'm not being a troll, I would really like to know the answers to this!


Hey, if you have to ask.......... 8^)


- Mike KB3EIA -

wrote:



Tsk, tsk, Stebie have orgasm of crapping on folks not in
this thread. :-)

Stebie be role model. Stebie not model but he be playing
role of Gonad the Librarian in action films. [seven
hostile action films?]


There you go talking like a three year old again.

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

VIPPY! Your're back!

Hello Vipul.

The definition you quoted says"Amateur Operator". There is no mention
of the word "ham" in the definition.

Oh crap....same old rhetoric...I see you haven't changed!

He see's that you haven't either.

How do you know? Mental telepathy? (Or are you just "mental",
which is more likely)

"Ham" is a label given to certain people with a certain belief system.

What "belief systems", Vipul...?!?!

"Belief systems" is a catch-phrase you usurped from Lennie
Anderson. Lennie is NOT a good role model to scam lines from.

People don't have belief systems?

Sure they do.

But your mentor uses the term "belief system" as if it were dirty.


He has "belief systems" too, but they don't seem to include
honesty, trustworthiness or strength of character.

Hams like antennas, and Morse code. They usually don't like the
technical aspect of the hobby (except for antennas).

(Here we go again....)

(There YOU go again...)

Who says so, Vipul...?!?! What organization, rule or entity made
this "rule"...?!?! I've asked you this before and you've never
explained yourself.

Yet I see no mention of a "rule." Whatever are you talking about,
Steve?

Gee, Brain...You got the point but didn't even knoiw it...

There's no "rule"...Yet Vippy seems to think there is.

Good for you.

They are often older, and male.

So...Shall we implement euthansia and castration if a licensee
dares to get older or have the wrong chromosomes...?!?!

Shall you?

Care to be number 1? I can help you either way you care to go...

They like to use the terminology.

Uhhhhh...yyyeahhhh...It's called "communication"...In order to
effectively express and exchange ideas there has to be some agreed upon
language and terms relating to the intended topic, Vipul.

QSL.

Please name me ANY sport, science, avocation, passtime or other
human pursuit that DOESN'T have 'terminology', Vipul.

So amateurs have terminology and -don't- like to use it? Are you
agreeing with Vipul or disagreeing with Vipul???

I am humiliating Vipul.

HE seems to think that there's some black undertones to Amateurs
using subject-specific terminology.

I have pointed out to him, repeatedly, that there is NO human
endeavor that doesn't ahve it's own "lingo".

They like to discuss ham politics.

As opposed to roast beef politics...?!?!

Chicken politics. Squawk, squawk. Like saying "Lessee....430" without
explanation.

No expalnation is necessary.

Just like no explanation for illegal operating from Somalia.

Or for what "major role" unlicensed devices play in "emergency
comms".

And don't forget those overblown ARES folks who won't respond to a
callout...

Still waiting on those, Brain...

There are other characteristics of a ham, which I will not list.

Of course not.

Of course.

Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

Yes, this is absolutely required to be accepted as a ham.

Who says? Where is this stated? In what FCC rule or ARRL by-law
is it established? Is it in invisible ink on my FCC Form 660?

I disagree with Vipul on this one. Five WPM wasn't enough to be
accepted as a full ham by many practioners of the ancient art.

"Many"...?!?!

I would interpret "many" as to be a significant percentage. What's
YOUR call, Brain? 10%? 35%? 50%..?!?!

From what demographic do you get your data?

Is it being accepted by certain other hams?

Hams share certain beliefs and characteristics.

Baptists share certain beliefs and characteristics. So do
dentists. Police, Fire and EMS personnel have their own beliefs. So
do Hindus, NASCAR drivers and cat lovers.

What belief system do you share?

Hmmmmm? Which one? I am basically conservative in my politics. I
am a former Paramedic and and presently an ACLS Nurse. I am a licensed
aviator.

Not to mention a 30+ year licensed Amateur.

What was YOUR point?

What was your point in saying, "Lessee....430?"

What was your point in "Somalia", "unlicensed devices", "ARES",
etc etc etc?

Without acceptance, one cannot be a "true" ham.

Sure you can.

I agree with Steve on this one. You just have to ignore the
knuckle-heads that would put you down for not attaining ever higher
Morse Code speeds.

Then I can assume you now publically acknowledge that I have
stated, now and in the past, that being a 20+WPM code deamon is not a
prerequisite to being a good Amateur?

Lennie doesn't accept ANY of us...

Not true.

He doesn't. He talks nice to you because of your public expression
of "admration" fro him in the face of copious evidence that he's a
chronic liar.

Does that mean we don't exist?

You exist in a negative way.

No more or less than you, Brain.

Once and for all, Vipul...

There is no one person, group, organization, entity or "belief
system" that dictates what makes a "good ham".

Not according to Larry, Dick, or Kelly.

Oh?

Where?

I've enver seen one of them state that one and only one person,
group organization, entity or belief system is the only true one.

Quotes, please.

Unfortunately, if only more amateur on here would come forward and
condemn those who exhibit the characteristics of a "bad ham," such as
yourself...

But what transpires in here is NOT "Amateur Radio".

You can discuss my on-air operating with K0HB, K8MN and N2EY if
you care to.

N0IMD is not in my log, on ANY mode.

Could it be the date they were first licensed, or maybe the class of
license they hold now?

Sorry, I do not know or understand the question.

Did you need it in another language? Seemed pretty straight
forward to me.

Bruce has his Extra. Seems like most of the trouble-makers are Extras.

Every bag of potatoes has one spoiled in it.

Bruce is Amateur Radio's spoiled potatoe.

You'll please note that no one here with an Extra, other than
Bruce, LIKES Bruce.

As for the class of
licence they hold right now, Morse code is required above the
Technician class. Those in the Technician class can still be hams, as
long as they agree with ham beliefs. One of those beliefs, of course,
is that they will eventually learn Morse code.

You keep saying this but you never explain yourself.

The have to profess the faith, and frequently claim that they are
"studying the Morse Code."

Who are "the", Brain? (I know you meant "they")...???

Can somebody who gets into amateur radio today with the "give away
license" ever be considered a real ham?

The license is a "give away" - no disputing that.

Sure there is.

Todays entry level license exam contains far more breadth and depth of
radio communications knowledge than any entry level license in the
history of amateur radio.

Yep. Since 1991.

Lennie's never availed himself of it.

To the best of my knowledge no one is "given" a license. Everyone
is required to take one of several written exams. If they opt to
operate on HF, they must take a Morse Code exam.

Captain Obvious.

Obviously not. Jim (GXW) called it a "give away" and Vipul
agreed.

I agree that it's almost childishly simple to get, however folks
still manage to fail it at a regular basis. It's still not a "give
away".

And despite the fact that the license IS markedly easier to get
these days, people still manage to fail the exams. Ergo it's NOT a
"giveaway"...

Far more difficult...

How did you know about the vanity license?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh...read about it?

K4CAP...?

And K4YZ. And I read about the program, just like I suggest above.

Your point?

Maybe it was in some of that "terminology" you seem to think is so
bad...

Steve, K4YZ

Terminology like, "Lessee....430?"

Like "unlicensed devices", "overblown ARES", etc etc etc...

Steve, K4YZ

"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...


Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Dan

A 1X2 call starting with "W" or "K"? How many of these folks do you
think
are around that are *not* in possession of a vanity call? C'mon! Give
us a
break! The original holders of 1X2 calls are mostly, if not entirely,
sk.
A dear friend of mine, W2ZS (almost the end of the 1X2 calls) has been
sk
for decades. Like about 3 decades.

My original call, issued in 1962, was WN2CJV. That would have made me
WB2CJV had I passed the 13 word per minute code test. Unfortunately, it
took me another year to get to 13 and I obtained WB2OSP in 1964.

With the issuance of vanity call signs, most of the 1X3 calls are gone -
mostly vanity call signs. Depending upon the call district, some of the
states were as far as a WD prefix.

Since I doubt many folks would spend money to get a call sign beginning
with
WA, WB, etc., those are the folks that you can be certain have been
licensed
since the early 60s. I did obtain WA3RJX in 1970, however, when I moved
to
Pennsylvania. Still, had I kept that call, it would be 35 years old!
Moving back then might also require a call sign change - along with a
"newbie" type call sign.

When the FCC allowed extra class licensees to choose their own call sign
in
the early 70s, I obtained N2JH. At that point, I'm not sure if they
would
allow you to grab an old expired call.

Once the gates were opened for vanity call signs, all bets are off as to
how
long an amateur has been licensed. My bet would be that the WA and WB
type
prefixes would be the only ones that would *almost* guarantee the
individual
has been licensed long enough to qualify for the quarter century club.
It
won't be long (and may have already happened) that there are some 5 word
per
minute folks with a 1X2 call (which means fairly new hams).

I know a few with N8*** that are/were 5 wpm and were licensed in 1983 or
earlier, I don't think that would make them fairly new hams. A few more
years and they will qualify for the quarter century club.

I have to ask what the heck you were thinking with your response that a
1X2
or 1X3 call indicates an old timer?

???



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



This is true; I had the call N2JH back in the 70s. The N prefix was made
available to amateurs sometime in the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly
when. My point, however, is that a WA or WB prefix pretty well indicates
someone who has been licensed for 40 years or so (depending upon district).
My WB2OSP license was issued in 1964, so figure the WA2 calls were a few
years earlier (WB2CJV would have been in May, 1962).

My point was that no one, I suspect, would apply for a WA or WB prefix under
the vanity callsign rules. This would, to me, certify that individual as an
old-timer. As to the 1X3 calls with a prefix of "W" or "K", my point is
that most of them have probably been issued as a vanity call after the FCC
started that sometime in the 1990s.

I knew Dwight Hill, K2BRE and he has been an sk for quite a while. Were he
still alive, he would be close to 90 years old. Certainly, there are some
still around with us with a 1X3 issued back in the 50s or earlier (Wayne,
W2NSD comes to mind), but I suspect *most* current 1X3 or 1X2 holders are
holders due to having a vanity call.

Dan's point of a 1X3 being an indicator of an old timer does not hold water.
I'd bet if you averaged all of the years the 1X3 tickets have had an amateur
license, it would be *less* than the average of all the WA and WB prefixes
(I could be wrong, but the WA WB prefixes are mostly well over 40 years
old - at least in the second call district). My friend, Tim, WB2KAO, was
licensed around 1963 and has his original call. He isn't an old timer due
to that WB prefix? 42 years of being licensed? This would be typical of a
WA or WB prefix. Unless you can tell me someone who got their WA or WB
prefix using the vanity call system.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

VIPPY! Your're back!

Hello Vipul.

The definition you quoted says"Amateur Operator". There is no mention
of the word "ham" in the definition.

Oh crap....same old rhetoric...I see you haven't changed!

He see's that you haven't either.

How do you know? Mental telepathy? (Or are you just "mental",
which is more likely)

Backchannel.

"Ham" is a label given to certain people with a certain belief system.

What "belief systems", Vipul...?!?!

"Belief systems" is a catch-phrase you usurped from Lennie
Anderson. Lennie is NOT a good role model to scam lines from.

People don't have belief systems?

Sure they do.

But your mentor uses the term "belief system" as if it were dirty.

I see no evidence of that.

He has "belief systems" too, but they don't seem to include
honesty, trustworthiness or strength of character.

Some people who claim to have all of the above are creeps.

"Lessee....430."

Hams like antennas, and Morse code. They usually don't like the
technical aspect of the hobby (except for antennas).

(Here we go again....)

(There YOU go again...)

Who says so, Vipul...?!?! What organization, rule or entity made
this "rule"...?!?! I've asked you this before and you've never
explained yourself.

Yet I see no mention of a "rule." Whatever are you talking about,
Steve?

Gee, Brain...You got the point but didn't even knoiw it...

There's no "rule"...Yet Vippy seems to think there is.

Good for you.

I see no evidence that Vipul thinks there's a rule. I only see
evidence of you thinking there is.

They are often older, and male.

So...Shall we implement euthansia and castration if a licensee
dares to get older or have the wrong chromosomes...?!?!

Shall you?

Care to be number 1? I can help you either way you care to go...

Is that a threat?

They like to use the terminology.

Uhhhhh...yyyeahhhh...It's called "communication"...In order to
effectively express and exchange ideas there has to be some agreed upon
language and terms relating to the intended topic, Vipul.

QSL.

Please name me ANY sport, science, avocation, passtime or other
human pursuit that DOESN'T have 'terminology', Vipul.

So amateurs have terminology and -don't- like to use it? Are you
agreeing with Vipul or disagreeing with Vipul???

I am humiliating Vipul.

You da man!

HE seems to think that there's some black undertones to Amateurs
using subject-specific terminology.

Amateurs are encouraged to use plain language in every emergency
management manual or training course that I've ever seen. Maybe Vipul
is on to something. Maybe you're not.

I have pointed out to him, repeatedly, that there is NO human
endeavor that doesn't ahve it's own "lingo".

Sleeping?

They like to discuss ham politics.

As opposed to roast beef politics...?!?!

Chicken politics. Squawk, squawk. Like saying "Lessee....430" without
explanation.

No expalnation is necessary.

More "lingo?" Quit using big words that you don't know what they mean.


Just like no explanation for illegal operating from Somalia.

Or for what "major role" unlicensed devices play in "emergency
comms".

And don't forget those overblown ARES folks who won't respond to a
callout...

Still waiting on those, Brain...

More dodges. Creep.

There are other characteristics of a ham, which I will not list.

Of course not.

Of course.

Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

Yes, this is absolutely required to be accepted as a ham.

Who says? Where is this stated? In what FCC rule or ARRL by-law
is it established? Is it in invisible ink on my FCC Form 660?

I disagree with Vipul on this one. Five WPM wasn't enough to be
accepted as a full ham by many practioners of the ancient art.

"Many"...?!?!

I would interpret "many" as to be a significant percentage. What's
YOUR call, Brain? 10%? 35%? 50%..?!?!

From what demographic do you get your data?

Why did you drop "Lessee....430" in one of your posting right before
the Dayton Hamvention? Were you planning on stopping by my home while
you were travelling in Ohio?

Is it being accepted by certain other hams?

Hams share certain beliefs and characteristics.

Baptists share certain beliefs and characteristics. So do
dentists. Police, Fire and EMS personnel have their own beliefs. So
do Hindus, NASCAR drivers and cat lovers.

What belief system do you share?

Hmmmmm? Which one?

Steve, right?

I am basically conservative in my politics. I
am a former Paramedic and and presently an ACLS Nurse. I am a licensed
aviator.

Not to mention a 30+ year licensed Amateur.

Paramedic and Nurse is a belief system? Aviation is a belief system?

What was YOUR point?

What was your point in saying, "Lessee....430?"

What was your point in "Somalia", "unlicensed devices", "ARES",
etc etc etc?

Why can't you answer a question about you dropping my house number into
one of your posts prior to the Dayton Hamvention?

Without acceptance, one cannot be a "true" ham.

Sure you can.

I agree with Steve on this one. You just have to ignore the
knuckle-heads that would put you down for not attaining ever higher
Morse Code speeds.

Then I can assume you now publically acknowledge that I have
stated, now and in the past, that being a 20+WPM code deamon is not a
prerequisite to being a good Amateur?

I publically acknowledge that Steven J Robeson, 20WPM Extra is not a
good Amateur.

Lennie doesn't accept ANY of us...

Not true.

He doesn't. He talks nice to you because of your public expression
of "admration" fro him in the face of copious evidence that he's a
chronic liar.

You're a chronic liar.

Does that mean we don't exist?

You exist in a negative way.

No more or less than you, Brain.

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

Once and for all, Vipul...

There is no one person, group, organization, entity or "belief
system" that dictates what makes a "good ham".

Not according to Larry, Dick, or Kelly.

Oh?

Where?

I've enver seen one of them state that one and only one person,
group organization, entity or belief system is the only true one.

Quotes, please.

Dick quit being a VE because he didn't """believe""" that the new
people were worthy of his time. Larry is on record numerous times
telling everyone who tripped over his postings that he was better than
everyone else. Kelly, well, he Kelly.

Unfortunately, if only more amateur on here would come forward and
condemn those who exhibit the characteristics of a "bad ham," such as
yourself...

But what transpires in here is NOT "Amateur Radio".

An amateur is balanced.

You can discuss my on-air operating with K0HB, K8MN and N2EY if
you care to.

N0IMD is not in my log, on ANY mode.

And you are not in any of my logs. Not in my KA0ZFY, N0iMD, HL9ACT,
N0iMD/KH2, N0iMD/9, N0iMD/T5, N0iMD/9 logs.

Could it be the date they were first licensed, or maybe the class of
license they hold now?

Sorry, I do not know or understand the question.

Did you need it in another language? Seemed pretty straight
forward to me.

Bruce has his Extra. Seems like most of the trouble-makers are Extras.

Every bag of potatoes has one spoiled in it.

At least.

Bruce is Amateur Radio's spoiled potatoe.

Hi!

You'll please note that no one here with an Extra, other than
Bruce, LIKES Bruce.

I don't care who likes whom. I merely stated that most of the
trouble-makers are Extra licensed amateurs, and I stand by my
statement.

As for the class of
licence they hold right now, Morse code is required above the
Technician class. Those in the Technician class can still be hams, as
long as they agree with ham beliefs. One of those beliefs, of course,
is that they will eventually learn Morse code.

You keep saying this but you never explain yourself.

The have to profess the faith, and frequently claim that they are
"studying the Morse Code."

Who are "the", Brain? (I know you meant "they")...???

Those who feel they have to agree with ham beliefs, or at least play
lip service to it or else feel the scorn of the hard-boiled hams.

Can somebody who gets into amateur radio today with the "give away
license" ever be considered a real ham?

The license is a "give away" - no disputing that.

Sure there is.

Todays entry level license exam contains far more breadth and depth of
radio communications knowledge than any entry level license in the
history of amateur radio.

Yep. Since 1991.

Lennie's never availed himself of it.

Nor have most Americans, even those who are highly skilled in radio
communications and engineering.

To the best of my knowledge no one is "given" a license. Everyone
is required to take one of several written exams. If they opt to
operate on HF, they must take a Morse Code exam.

Captain Obvious.

Obviously not. Jim (GXW) called it a "give away" and Vipul
agreed.

I agree that it's almost childishly simple to get, however folks
still manage to fail it at a regular basis. It's still not a "give
away".

Agreed.

And despite the fact that the license IS markedly easier to get
these days, people still manage to fail the exams. Ergo it's NOT a
"giveaway"...

Far more difficult...

How did you know about the vanity license?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh...read about it?

K4CAP...?

And K4YZ. And I read about the program, just like I suggest above.

Your point?

You did more than read about it.

Maybe it was in some of that "terminology" you seem to think is so
bad...

Steve, K4YZ

Terminology like, "Lessee....430?"

Like "unlicensed devices", "overblown ARES", etc etc etc...

No. Very much unlike those. Exactly like my house number.

Steve, K4YZ

I just can't understand why you would post my house number prior to the
Dayton Hamvention unless you planned on stopping by while you were in
Ohio.

Were you planning on stopping by? Didn't you have something to "teach"
me?

Sounds to me that many here have confused the idea of "a decent human
being" with a "ham"... true, the best type of ham is both a "hobbist
radio operator" and "a decent human being"... however, I am not so sure
the FCC is into regulating that one trait...

John

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

VIPPY! Your're back!

Hello Vipul.

The definition you quoted says"Amateur Operator". There is no
mention
of the word "ham" in the definition.

Oh crap....same old rhetoric...I see you haven't changed!

He see's that you haven't either.

How do you know? Mental telepathy? (Or are you just "mental",
which is more likely)

Backchannel.

"Ham" is a label given to certain people with a certain belief
system.

What "belief systems", Vipul...?!?!

"Belief systems" is a catch-phrase you usurped from Lennie
Anderson. Lennie is NOT a good role model to scam lines from.

People don't have belief systems?

Sure they do.

But your mentor uses the term "belief system" as if it were
dirty.

I see no evidence of that.

He has "belief systems" too, but they don't seem to include
honesty, trustworthiness or strength of character.

Some people who claim to have all of the above are creeps.

"Lessee....430."

Hams like antennas, and Morse code. They usually don't like the
technical aspect of the hobby (except for antennas).

(Here we go again....)

(There YOU go again...)

Who says so, Vipul...?!?! What organization, rule or entity
made
this "rule"...?!?! I've asked you this before and you've never
explained yourself.

Yet I see no mention of a "rule." Whatever are you talking about,
Steve?

Gee, Brain...You got the point but didn't even knoiw it...

There's no "rule"...Yet Vippy seems to think there is.

Good for you.

I see no evidence that Vipul thinks there's a rule. I only see
evidence of you thinking there is.

They are often older, and male.

So...Shall we implement euthansia and castration if a
licensee
dares to get older or have the wrong chromosomes...?!?!

Shall you?

Care to be number 1? I can help you either way you care to go...

Is that a threat?

They like to use the terminology.

Uhhhhh...yyyeahhhh...It's called "communication"...In order
to
effectively express and exchange ideas there has to be some
agreed upon
language and terms relating to the intended topic, Vipul.

QSL.

Please name me ANY sport, science, avocation, passtime or
other
human pursuit that DOESN'T have 'terminology', Vipul.

So amateurs have terminology and -don't- like to use it? Are you
agreeing with Vipul or disagreeing with Vipul???

I am humiliating Vipul.

You da man!

HE seems to think that there's some black undertones to Amateurs
using subject-specific terminology.

Amateurs are encouraged to use plain language in every emergency
management manual or training course that I've ever seen. Maybe Vipul
is on to something. Maybe you're not.

I have pointed out to him, repeatedly, that there is NO human
endeavor that doesn't ahve it's own "lingo".

Sleeping?

They like to discuss ham politics.

As opposed to roast beef politics...?!?!

Chicken politics. Squawk, squawk. Like saying "Lessee....430"
without
explanation.

No expalnation is necessary.

More "lingo?" Quit using big words that you don't know what they
mean.


Just like no explanation for illegal operating from Somalia.

Or for what "major role" unlicensed devices play in "emergency
comms".

And don't forget those overblown ARES folks who won't respond to
a
callout...

Still waiting on those, Brain...

More dodges. Creep.

There are other characteristics of a ham, which I will not
list.

Of course not.

Of course.

Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

Yes, this is absolutely required to be accepted as a ham.

Who says? Where is this stated? In what FCC rule or ARRL
by-law
is it established? Is it in invisible ink on my FCC Form 660?

I disagree with Vipul on this one. Five WPM wasn't enough to be
accepted as a full ham by many practioners of the ancient art.

"Many"...?!?!

I would interpret "many" as to be a significant percentage.
What's
YOUR call, Brain? 10%? 35%? 50%..?!?!

From what demographic do you get your data?

Why did you drop "Lessee....430" in one of your posting right before
the Dayton Hamvention? Were you planning on stopping by my home while
you were travelling in Ohio?

Is it being accepted by certain other hams?

Hams share certain beliefs and characteristics.

Baptists share certain beliefs and characteristics. So do
dentists. Police, Fire and EMS personnel have their own beliefs.
So
do Hindus, NASCAR drivers and cat lovers.

What belief system do you share?

Hmmmmm? Which one?

Steve, right?

I am basically conservative in my politics. I
am a former Paramedic and and presently an ACLS Nurse. I am a
licensed
aviator.

Not to mention a 30+ year licensed Amateur.

Paramedic and Nurse is a belief system? Aviation is a belief system?

What was YOUR point?

What was your point in saying, "Lessee....430?"

What was your point in "Somalia", "unlicensed devices", "ARES",
etc etc etc?

Why can't you answer a question about you dropping my house number
into
one of your posts prior to the Dayton Hamvention?

Without acceptance, one cannot be a "true" ham.

Sure you can.

I agree with Steve on this one. You just have to ignore the
knuckle-heads that would put you down for not attaining ever higher
Morse Code speeds.

Then I can assume you now publically acknowledge that I have
stated, now and in the past, that being a 20+WPM code deamon is not a
prerequisite to being a good Amateur?

I publically acknowledge that Steven J Robeson, 20WPM Extra is not a
good Amateur.

Lennie doesn't accept ANY of us...

Not true.

He doesn't. He talks nice to you because of your public
expression
of "admration" fro him in the face of copious evidence that he's a
chronic liar.

You're a chronic liar.

Does that mean we don't exist?

You exist in a negative way.

No more or less than you, Brain.

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

Once and for all, Vipul...

There is no one person, group, organization, entity or
"belief
system" that dictates what makes a "good ham".

Not according to Larry, Dick, or Kelly.

Oh?

Where?

I've enver seen one of them state that one and only one person,
group organization, entity or belief system is the only true one.

Quotes, please.

Dick quit being a VE because he didn't """believe""" that the new
people were worthy of his time. Larry is on record numerous times
telling everyone who tripped over his postings that he was better than
everyone else. Kelly, well, he Kelly.

Unfortunately, if only more amateur on here would come forward and
condemn those who exhibit the characteristics of a "bad ham," such
as
yourself...

But what transpires in here is NOT "Amateur Radio".

An amateur is balanced.

You can discuss my on-air operating with K0HB, K8MN and N2EY if
you care to.

N0IMD is not in my log, on ANY mode.

And you are not in any of my logs. Not in my KA0ZFY, N0iMD, HL9ACT,
N0iMD/KH2, N0iMD/9, N0iMD/T5, N0iMD/9 logs.

Could it be the date they were first licensed, or maybe the
class of
license they hold now?

Sorry, I do not know or understand the question.

Did you need it in another language? Seemed pretty straight
forward to me.

Bruce has his Extra. Seems like most of the trouble-makers are
Extras.

Every bag of potatoes has one spoiled in it.

At least.

Bruce is Amateur Radio's spoiled potatoe.

Hi!

You'll please note that no one here with an Extra, other than
Bruce, LIKES Bruce.

I don't care who likes whom. I merely stated that most of the
trouble-makers are Extra licensed amateurs, and I stand by my
statement.

As for the class of
licence they hold right now, Morse code is required above the
Technician class. Those in the Technician class can still be
hams, as
long as they agree with ham beliefs. One of those beliefs, of
course,
is that they will eventually learn Morse code.

You keep saying this but you never explain yourself.

The have to profess the faith, and frequently claim that they are
"studying the Morse Code."

Who are "the", Brain? (I know you meant "they")...???

Those who feel they have to agree with ham beliefs, or at least play
lip service to it or else feel the scorn of the hard-boiled hams.

Can somebody who gets into amateur radio today with the "give
away
license" ever be considered a real ham?

The license is a "give away" - no disputing that.

Sure there is.

Todays entry level license exam contains far more breadth and depth
of
radio communications knowledge than any entry level license in the
history of amateur radio.

Yep. Since 1991.

Lennie's never availed himself of it.

Nor have most Americans, even those who are highly skilled in radio
communications and engineering.

To the best of my knowledge no one is "given" a license.
Everyone
is required to take one of several written exams. If they opt to
operate on HF, they must take a Morse Code exam.

Captain Obvious.

Obviously not. Jim (GXW) called it a "give away" and Vipul
agreed.

I agree that it's almost childishly simple to get, however folks
still manage to fail it at a regular basis. It's still not a "give
away".

Agreed.

And despite the fact that the license IS markedly easier to
get
these days, people still manage to fail the exams. Ergo it's NOT
a
"giveaway"...

Far more difficult...

How did you know about the vanity license?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh...read about it?

K4CAP...?

And K4YZ. And I read about the program, just like I suggest
above.

Your point?

You did more than read about it.

Maybe it was in some of that "terminology" you seem to think
is so
bad...

Steve, K4YZ

Terminology like, "Lessee....430?"

Like "unlicensed devices", "overblown ARES", etc etc etc...

No. Very much unlike those. Exactly like my house number.

Steve, K4YZ

I just can't understand why you would post my house number prior to
the
Dayton Hamvention unless you planned on stopping by while you were in
Ohio.

Were you planning on stopping by? Didn't you have something to
"teach"
me?