KC8GXW wrote:

I didn't take the free upgrade to general,

There's no free upgrade to General.

If someone earned a Technician back when that license used the same
written as the General, they can get a no-additional test
upgrade to General through the VE system. FCC recognizes old
(pre-March 21, 1987) Element 3 as carrying credit for new
Element 3.

But you still have to pay the VE fee, and have earned that
Tech in the first place. Not a giveaway or a free upgrade.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...


Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Dan

A 1X2 call starting with "W" or "K"? How many of these folks do you
think
are around that are *not* in possession of a vanity call? C'mon! Give
us a
break! The original holders of 1X2 calls are mostly, if not entirely,
sk.
A dear friend of mine, W2ZS (almost the end of the 1X2 calls) has been
sk
for decades. Like about 3 decades.

My original call, issued in 1962, was WN2CJV. That would have made me
WB2CJV had I passed the 13 word per minute code test. Unfortunately,
it
took me another year to get to 13 and I obtained WB2OSP in 1964.

With the issuance of vanity call signs, most of the 1X3 calls are
gone -
mostly vanity call signs. Depending upon the call district, some of
the
states were as far as a WD prefix.

Since I doubt many folks would spend money to get a call sign beginning
with
WA, WB, etc., those are the folks that you can be certain have been
licensed
since the early 60s. I did obtain WA3RJX in 1970, however, when I
moved
to
Pennsylvania. Still, had I kept that call, it would be 35 years old!
Moving back then might also require a call sign change - along with a
"newbie" type call sign.

When the FCC allowed extra class licensees to choose their own call
sign
in
the early 70s, I obtained N2JH. At that point, I'm not sure if they
would
allow you to grab an old expired call.

Once the gates were opened for vanity call signs, all bets are off as
to
how
long an amateur has been licensed. My bet would be that the WA and WB
type
prefixes would be the only ones that would *almost* guarantee the
individual
has been licensed long enough to qualify for the quarter century club.
It
won't be long (and may have already happened) that there are some 5
word
per
minute folks with a 1X2 call (which means fairly new hams).

I know a few with N8*** that are/were 5 wpm and were licensed in 1983 or
earlier, I don't think that would make them fairly new hams. A few more
years and they will qualify for the quarter century club.

I have to ask what the heck you were thinking with your response that a
1X2
or 1X3 call indicates an old timer?

???



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



This is true; I had the call N2JH back in the 70s. The N prefix was made
available to amateurs sometime in the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly
when. My point, however, is that a WA or WB prefix pretty well indicates
someone who has been licensed for 40 years or so (depending upon
district).
My WB2OSP license was issued in 1964, so figure the WA2 calls were a few
years earlier (WB2CJV would have been in May, 1962).

My point was that no one, I suspect, would apply for a WA or WB prefix
under
the vanity callsign rules. This would, to me, certify that individual as
an
old-timer. As to the 1X3 calls with a prefix of "W" or "K", my point is
that most of them have probably been issued as a vanity call after the FCC
started that sometime in the 1990s.

I knew Dwight Hill, K2BRE and he has been an sk for quite a while. Were
he
still alive, he would be close to 90 years old. Certainly, there are some
still around with us with a 1X3 issued back in the 50s or earlier (Wayne,
W2NSD comes to mind), but I suspect *most* current 1X3 or 1X2 holders are
holders due to having a vanity call.


They did not run out of sequentially issued 1x3 calls until sometime in 1993
(varying slightly by call area). Sequentially issued 1x2 calls were still
available in come call areas into the early 1990s. The 1x2s really went
fast in late 1980s and the very early 1990s. I knew a great many hams who
had finally chosen to upgrade to Extra so that they could contribute to
amateur radio by becoming VEs and got their 1x2s. Although you didn't have
to be an Extra to be a VE, you were limited on who you could administer
tests to if you were not.

I received my call (N8UZE) in 1992 and my daughter received her call (N8ZNW)
in 1993.

Dan's point of a 1X3 being an indicator of an old timer does not hold
water.

Definitely not. Many holders of 1x3 calls got their licenses in the 1990s
and many new licenses today are getting 1x3 calls through the vanity system
since there are none available for sequential issue. However if one looks
only at the sequentially issued calls, the Ws are older than the Ks which in
turn are older than the Ns.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

From: "bb" on Sat 4 Jun 2005 09:02

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

VIPPY! Your're back!

Hello Vipul.

The definition you quoted says"Amateur Operator". There is no mention
of the word "ham" in the definition.

Oh crap....same old rhetoric...I see you haven't changed!

He see's that you haven't either.

Stebie likes to crap...on everyone he no like.

"Ham" is a label given to certain people with a certain belief system.

What "belief systems", Vipul...?!?!

"Belief systems" is a catch-phrase you usurped from Lennie
Anderson. Lennie is NOT a good role model to scam lines from.

People don't have belief systems?

Tsk, tsk, Stebie have orgasm of crapping on folks not in
this thread. :-)

Stebie be role model. Stebie not model but he be playing
role of Gonad the Librarian in action films. [seven
hostile action films?]

Hams like antennas, and Morse code. They usually don't like the
technical aspect of the hobby (except for antennas).

(Here we go again....)

(There YOU go again...)

It's "rerun season" again, Brian. :-)


Who says so, Vipul...?!?! What organization, rule or entity made
this "rule"...?!?! I've asked you this before and you've never
explained yourself.

Yet I see no mention of a "rule." Whatever are you talking about,
Steve?

Stebie forget that Stebieland "rules" not published in Reality.

Stebie think He be "ruler."

["Give a man an inch and he thinks he's a ruler!" - tagline]


They are often older, and male.

So...Shall we implement euthansia and castration if a licensee
dares to get older or have the wrong chromosomes...?!?!

Shall you?

Many in here wonder if Stebie is genus homo...

They like to use the terminology.

Uhhhhh...yyyeahhhh...It's called "communication"...In order to
effectively express and exchange ideas there has to be some agreed upon
language and terms relating to the intended topic, Vipul.

QSL.

Stebie is a card.

Please name me ANY sport, science, avocation, passtime or other
human pursuit that DOESN'T have 'terminology', Vipul.

So amateurs have terminology and -don't- like to use it? Are you
agreeing with Vipul or disagreeing with Vipul???

Brian, the Rand Corporation cryptology department has been
working all night on that...still hasn't figured it out. :-)


They like to discuss ham politics.

As opposed to roast beef politics...?!?!

Chicken politics. Squawk, squawk. Like saying "Lessee....430" without
explanation.

Ham have beef? Sounds fishy. Most foul.

Why did Stebie cross the road? To get to Brian's house
for breakfast of stalking-over-easy, to crisp his toast
and pee in his post toasties. Stebie think like that.

There are other characteristics of a ham, which I will not list.

Of course not.

Of course.

Stebie off course.

Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

Yes, this is absolutely required to be accepted as a ham.

Who says? Where is this stated? In what FCC rule or ARRL by-law
is it established? Is it in invisible ink on my FCC Form 660?

I disagree with Vipul on this one. Five WPM wasn't enough to be
accepted as a full ham by many practioners of the ancient art.

Right you are, Brian! WPM GREATER than 60!!!

ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society) needs mighty macho
morsemen heroes!!! "Faster than a speeding CQ, able to
leap tall pile-ups in a single QSO!"

Look, up in the sky...is it a bird? Is it a plane? No!
It's SuperHAM! cut to tight shot of Stebie in tights,
a big ass on his chest roll up heroic theme music

Is it being accepted by certain other hams?

Hams share certain beliefs and characteristics.

Baptists share certain beliefs and characteristics. So do
dentists. Police, Fire and EMS personnel have their own beliefs. So
do Hindus, NASCAR drivers and cat lovers.

What belief system do you share?

Stebie belong Church of Stebiology?


What was YOUR point?

What was your point in saying, "Lessee....430?"

"Steve and the Boys" were looking for "action."

At least "seven" of them. :-)


Lennie doesn't accept ANY of us...

Not true.

I think Stebie was speaking for HIS multiple personalities.

Does that mean we don't exist?

You exist in a negative way.

"For every action there is a reaction." - Newton

"I have seven hostile actions." - Stebie


Once and for all, Vipul...

There is no one person, group, organization, entity or "belief
system" that dictates what makes a "good ham".

Not according to Larry, Dick, or Kelly.

The Three Stooges?

Unfortunately, if only more amateur on here would come forward and
condemn those who exhibit the characteristics of a "bad ham," such as
yourself...

Stebie will find out their house number and threaten them
with it... :-)


As for the class of
licence they hold right now, Morse code is required above the
Technician class. Those in the Technician class can still be hams, as
long as they agree with ham beliefs. One of those beliefs, of course,
is that they will eventually learn Morse code.

You keep saying this but you never explain yourself.

The have to profess the faith, and frequently claim that they are
"studying the Morse Code."

...and admire, respect, worship Stebie. :-)



To the best of my knowledge no one is "given" a license. Everyone
is required to take one of several written exams. If they opt to
operate on HF, they must take a Morse Code exam.

Captain Obvious.

[I think it may have just dawned on Stebie's mighty intellect]


And despite the fact that the license IS markedly easier to get
these days, people still manage to fail the exams. Ergo it's NOT a
"giveaway"...

Far more difficult...

Nine-year-olds can pass it. Stebie's nine-year-old pass it?
We not hear of that. Mebbe too difficult for her...?

True definition: "Ham is the butchered meat of swine."

Heh heh heh. Stebie gonna round up "his Boys" and post my
house number, for sure... :-)

From: "bb" on Sat 4 Jun 2005 09:02

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

VIPPY! Your're back!

Hello Vipul.

The definition you quoted says"Amateur Operator". There is no mention
of the word "ham" in the definition.

Oh crap....same old rhetoric...I see you haven't changed!

He see's that you haven't either.

Stebie likes to crap...on everyone he no like.

"Ham" is a label given to certain people with a certain belief system.

What "belief systems", Vipul...?!?!

"Belief systems" is a catch-phrase you usurped from Lennie
Anderson. Lennie is NOT a good role model to scam lines from.

People don't have belief systems?

Tsk, tsk, Stebie have orgasm of crapping on folks not in
this thread. :-)

Stebie be role model. Stebie not model but he be playing
role of Gonad the Librarian in action films. [seven
hostile action films?]

Hams like antennas, and Morse code. They usually don't like the
technical aspect of the hobby (except for antennas).

(Here we go again....)

(There YOU go again...)

It's "rerun season" again, Brian. :-)


Who says so, Vipul...?!?! What organization, rule or entity made
this "rule"...?!?! I've asked you this before and you've never
explained yourself.

Yet I see no mention of a "rule." Whatever are you talking about,
Steve?

Stebie forget that Stebieland "rules" not published in Reality.

Stebie think He be "ruler."

["Give a man an inch and he thinks he's a ruler!" - tagline]


They are often older, and male.

So...Shall we implement euthansia and castration if a licensee
dares to get older or have the wrong chromosomes...?!?!

Shall you?

Many in here wonder if Stebie is genus homo...

They like to use the terminology.

Uhhhhh...yyyeahhhh...It's called "communication"...In order to
effectively express and exchange ideas there has to be some agreed upon
language and terms relating to the intended topic, Vipul.

QSL.

Stebie is a card.

Please name me ANY sport, science, avocation, passtime or other
human pursuit that DOESN'T have 'terminology', Vipul.

So amateurs have terminology and -don't- like to use it? Are you
agreeing with Vipul or disagreeing with Vipul???

Brian, the Rand Corporation cryptology department has been
working all night on that...still hasn't figured it out. :-)


They like to discuss ham politics.

As opposed to roast beef politics...?!?!

Chicken politics. Squawk, squawk. Like saying "Lessee....430" without
explanation.

Ham have beef? Sounds fishy. Most foul.

Why did Stebie cross the road? To get to Brian's house
for breakfast of stalking-over-easy, to crisp his toast
and pee in his post toasties. Stebie think like that.

There are other characteristics of a ham, which I will not list.

Of course not.

Of course.

Stebie off course.

Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

Yes, this is absolutely required to be accepted as a ham.

Who says? Where is this stated? In what FCC rule or ARRL by-law
is it established? Is it in invisible ink on my FCC Form 660?

I disagree with Vipul on this one. Five WPM wasn't enough to be
accepted as a full ham by many practioners of the ancient art.

Right you are, Brian! WPM GREATER than 60!!!

ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society) needs mighty macho
morsemen heroes!!! "Faster than a speeding CQ, able to
leap tall pile-ups in a single QSO!"

Look, up in the sky...is it a bird? Is it a plane? No!
It's SuperHAM! cut to tight shot of Stebie in tights,
a big ass on his chest roll up heroic theme music

Is it being accepted by certain other hams?

Hams share certain beliefs and characteristics.

Baptists share certain beliefs and characteristics. So do
dentists. Police, Fire and EMS personnel have their own beliefs. So
do Hindus, NASCAR drivers and cat lovers.

What belief system do you share?

Stebie belong Church of Stebiology?


What was YOUR point?

What was your point in saying, "Lessee....430?"

"Steve and the Boys" were looking for "action."

At least "seven" of them. :-)


Lennie doesn't accept ANY of us...

Not true.

I think Stebie was speaking for HIS multiple personalities.

Does that mean we don't exist?

You exist in a negative way.

"For every action there is a reaction." - Newton

"I have seven hostile actions." - Stebie


Once and for all, Vipul...

There is no one person, group, organization, entity or "belief
system" that dictates what makes a "good ham".

Not according to Larry, Dick, or Kelly.

The Three Stooges?

Unfortunately, if only more amateur on here would come forward and
condemn those who exhibit the characteristics of a "bad ham," such as
yourself...

Stebie will find out their house number and threaten them
with it... :-)


As for the class of
licence they hold right now, Morse code is required above the
Technician class. Those in the Technician class can still be hams, as
long as they agree with ham beliefs. One of those beliefs, of course,
is that they will eventually learn Morse code.

You keep saying this but you never explain yourself.

The have to profess the faith, and frequently claim that they are
"studying the Morse Code."

...and admire, respect, worship Stebie. :-)



To the best of my knowledge no one is "given" a license. Everyone
is required to take one of several written exams. If they opt to
operate on HF, they must take a Morse Code exam.

Captain Obvious.

[I think it may have just dawned on Stebie's mighty intellect]


And despite the fact that the license IS markedly easier to get
these days, people still manage to fail the exams. Ergo it's NOT a
"giveaway"...

Far more difficult...

Nine-year-olds can pass it. Stebie's nine-year-old pass it?
We not hear of that. Mebbe too difficult for her...?

True definition: "Ham is the butchered meat of swine."

Heh heh heh. Stebie gonna round up "his Boys" and post my
house number, for sure... :-)

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...


Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Dan

A 1X2 call starting with "W" or "K"? How many of these folks do you
think
are around that are *not* in possession of a vanity call? C'mon!
Give
us a
break! The original holders of 1X2 calls are mostly, if not
entirely,
sk.
A dear friend of mine, W2ZS (almost the end of the 1X2 calls) has
been
sk
for decades. Like about 3 decades.

My original call, issued in 1962, was WN2CJV. That would have made
me
WB2CJV had I passed the 13 word per minute code test. Unfortunately,
it
took me another year to get to 13 and I obtained WB2OSP in 1964.

With the issuance of vanity call signs, most of the 1X3 calls are
gone -
mostly vanity call signs. Depending upon the call district, some of
the
states were as far as a WD prefix.

Since I doubt many folks would spend money to get a call sign
beginning
with
WA, WB, etc., those are the folks that you can be certain have been
licensed
since the early 60s. I did obtain WA3RJX in 1970, however, when I
moved
to
Pennsylvania. Still, had I kept that call, it would be 35 years old!
Moving back then might also require a call sign change - along with a
"newbie" type call sign.

When the FCC allowed extra class licensees to choose their own call
sign
in
the early 70s, I obtained N2JH. At that point, I'm not sure if they
would
allow you to grab an old expired call.

Once the gates were opened for vanity call signs, all bets are off as
to
how
long an amateur has been licensed. My bet would be that the WA and
WB
type
prefixes would be the only ones that would *almost* guarantee the
individual
has been licensed long enough to qualify for the quarter century
club.
It
won't be long (and may have already happened) that there are some 5
word
per
minute folks with a 1X2 call (which means fairly new hams).

I know a few with N8*** that are/were 5 wpm and were licensed in 1983
or
earlier, I don't think that would make them fairly new hams. A few more
years and they will qualify for the quarter century club.

I have to ask what the heck you were thinking with your response that
a
1X2
or 1X3 call indicates an old timer?

???



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



This is true; I had the call N2JH back in the 70s. The N prefix was
made
available to amateurs sometime in the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly
when. My point, however, is that a WA or WB prefix pretty well
indicates
someone who has been licensed for 40 years or so (depending upon
district).
My WB2OSP license was issued in 1964, so figure the WA2 calls were a few
years earlier (WB2CJV would have been in May, 1962).

My point was that no one, I suspect, would apply for a WA or WB prefix
under
the vanity callsign rules. This would, to me, certify that individual
as
an
old-timer. As to the 1X3 calls with a prefix of "W" or "K", my point is
that most of them have probably been issued as a vanity call after the
FCC
started that sometime in the 1990s.

I knew Dwight Hill, K2BRE and he has been an sk for quite a while. Were
he
still alive, he would be close to 90 years old. Certainly, there are
some
still around with us with a 1X3 issued back in the 50s or earlier
(Wayne,
W2NSD comes to mind), but I suspect *most* current 1X3 or 1X2 holders
are
holders due to having a vanity call.


They did not run out of sequentially issued 1x3 calls until sometime in
1993
(varying slightly by call area). Sequentially issued 1x2 calls were still
available in come call areas into the early 1990s. The 1x2s really went
fast in late 1980s and the very early 1990s. I knew a great many hams who
had finally chosen to upgrade to Extra so that they could contribute to
amateur radio by becoming VEs and got their 1x2s. Although you didn't
have
to be an Extra to be a VE, you were limited on who you could administer
tests to if you were not.

I received my call (N8UZE) in 1992 and my daughter received her call
(N8ZNW)
in 1993.

Dan's point of a 1X3 being an indicator of an old timer does not hold
water.

Definitely not. Many holders of 1x3 calls got their licenses in the 1990s
and many new licenses today are getting 1x3 calls through the vanity
system
since there are none available for sequential issue. However if one looks
only at the sequentially issued calls, the Ws are older than the Ks which
in
turn are older than the Ns.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Hello, Dee

I am pretty sure you are correct. I also believe that WV2 was the novice
prefix which would turn into WA2 when the tech or general was obtained (no
quick routes to the extra back then; you had to have some time with a
license before you could even take the test). WN2 turned into WB2. Not
sure about the K prefix. The novice goes back into the 50s, I believe.

You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks. Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.

Still haven't heard from Dan. Perhaps we could sked for a nice chat - as
long as he can put up with a "newbie". Better keep it slow, say 30 words
per minute cw with no automated copy devices. I suppose if he pushes me, I
might consider 40. Not much more, however; I'm not up to that stuff
anymore. Of course, if push came to shove .... I might be willing to give
the high-speed stuff a crack, but don't expect much from a former WN prefix.

If he *really* wants to push the envelope, I'd be willing to take a week and
meet him using American Land-Line Morse. Should be good for a hoot. No
more than 16, however, as I'd be using a mental look-up table. Not enough
call for land-line Morse to make it worthwhile to get good at it. I only
used it once in 1968. Of course, I hadn't copied Morse since 1969 when I
retook the extra in 1993 .... at 20 words per minute ....



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA, newbie extrodinaire
ps - the new guys and gals deserve respect too. I guess I just didn't care
for his implication on the prefix.

John Smith wrote:
Sounds to me that many here have confused the idea of "a decent human
being" with a "ham"...

I have no such illusions.

true, the best type of ham is both a "hobbist
radio operator" and "a decent human being"... however, I am not so sure
the FCC is into regulating that one trait...

John

John, you'll catch hell on here for describing amateur radio as a
"hobby."

wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:


I didn't take the free upgrade to general,


There's no free upgrade to General.

If someone earned a Technician back when that license used the same
written as the General, they can get a no-additional test
upgrade to General through the VE system. FCC recognizes old
(pre-March 21, 1987) Element 3 as carrying credit for new
Element 3.

But you still have to pay the VE fee, and have earned that
Tech in the first place. Not a giveaway or a free upgrade.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I was just being sarcastic because I have been told I have a give away
tech license!

Really? What else I am supposed to be doing, listening for ET?
tongue-in-cheek

Warmest regards,
John

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


John Smith wrote:
Sounds to me that many here have confused the idea of "a decent human
being" with a "ham"...

I have no such illusions.

true, the best type of ham is both a "hobbist
radio operator" and "a decent human being"... however, I am not so
sure
the FCC is into regulating that one trait...

John

John, you'll catch hell on here for describing amateur radio as a
"hobby."

Jim Hampton wrote:

I am pretty sure you are correct. I also believe that WV2 was the novice
prefix which would turn into WA2 when the tech or general was obtained (no
quick routes to the extra back then; you had to have some time with a
license before you could even take the test). WN2 turned into WB2. Not
sure about the K prefix. The novice goes back into the 50s, I believe.

Novices who got K calls were KN, the N being dropped with upgrade. When
I got my Novice I recieved a K call, friends who were licensed at the
same time got WN calls which became WA on upgrade. The WA lasted until
they ran out of A's then they started issuing WB's.

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks. Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.


I don't know about all area's but I can say this, for the 8th
district...circa summer of 1961 they did indeed re-issue K calls.

Same in 5 land, my K call was a re-issue.