John Smith wrote:
Really? What else I am supposed to be doing, listening for ET?
tongue-in-cheek

Warmest regards,
John

It's OK. Really. Balanced hams don't worry about what the fringe
think.

;^)

"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...

What makes a person a real ham?
Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

A "Real Ham" is proficient in all forms and modes of communications. One
of the primary purposes of Amateur Radio is to provide a pool of
qualified radio operators in the event of emergency. Thus being able to
use Morse Code at anything but training wheel speed is a big plus.



Is it being accepted by certain other hams?


No, not entirely. But being able to assimilate with minimum friction is
a big help. In otherwords don't show up with a "I know it all attitude"
and have a bit of respect for those that have been there before you.

Would that be the "give away license" that you made reference to in
another post? You do realize that there are still Tech's out there that
took the old Novice and then upgraded to Tech by doing the general theory!

Yes it is, and yes I am. So what? The general theory was mainly concerned
with freqs used by Generals and HF stuff. At that time in history the Tech
test was centered around V/Uhf stuff.

Could it be the date they were first licensed, or maybe the class of
license they hold now?


That does have a bearing on things. Don't come on with the above
attitute holding a Technician ticket for 6 months, and expect to be
treating with respect. Respect is earned me boy.


Can a person climb to Extra with today's test and be considered a real
ham?


No, not really. Must I elaborate on the obvious?

If one does that wonderous dead and then EARNS the respect of those other
hams. A lot of what I said above is bypassed. Respect, Earned those
are the key words here.


Is yodoc aka K3LT a real ham, or the one to determine who is a real ham?


Don't know the man.


Can somebody who gets into amateur radio today with the "give away
license" ever be considered a real ham?


Sure...see above.


Does getting a vanity license that is an older call such as K8*** or
WD8*** make you a real ham?


A WD8? a joke right? Try W or K ...one by two or three, non vanity of
course. Thats an old timer.

But there are too many no code tech's that get a vanity call now adays.

Which totally sucks. The FCC at ONE TIME wanted distintive callsigns for
class of license. Now it is too much work to bother with. What a joke they
are.


As a matter of fact the FCC once considered the W/K prefix "prefered
calls". And at one time the FCC required you to change your call if you
permanetly moved to another district. And in deference to the W/K....if
you had one they would issue another from the prefered block.

Which is how I got my present call (W4NTI) because I used to have K8BHH.
Course that all went to crap with the alphabet soup system of today.

There's an Extra near here that still has his K8*** call, he was a tech
until the early nineties and upgraded to Extra when it was still 20 wpm.

So what? having a old K8 means he has a original issue K8 call. You don't
seem to comprehend that what was this and what is now ain't no where near
the same. All there was back then was W and K calls, followed by WA, WB,
WD, then a re-issue for a while, then the alphabet soup we have today.



I didn't take the free upgrade to general, so would this make me a cb'er
or no coder as the toad says?


No, just a no coder. Unless of course you did pass a 5wpm test. Then
you would be a Technician. Hi hi.

I took the 5wpm when I did my novice.

Congrats....so did I. Then I jumped over the Tech and took my General at
13wpm, then my Advanced then my Extra at 20wpm. Your point is?



I'm not being a troll, I would really like to know the answers to this!



Hope that helps a bit.

Dan/W4NTI



Dan/W4NTI

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


Dan's point of a 1X3 being an indicator of an old timer does not hold
water.

Definitely not. Many holders of 1x3 calls got their licenses in the 1990s
and many new licenses today are getting 1x3 calls through the vanity
system since there are none available for sequential issue. However if
one looks only at the sequentially issued calls, the Ws are older than the
Ks which in turn are older than the Ns.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


I think you are trying to be a devils advocate here Dee. You should know I
was refering to the time before incentive licensing. If you don't...you do
now. So my comments are valid and correct.

Dan/W4NTI

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks. Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.

I don't know about all area's but I can say this, for the 8th
district...circa summer of 1961 they did indeed re-issue K calls. I
received KN8BHH, my friend received KN8BBL, another friend received KN8DEN,
etc. however just a month or so later another group of buds received WN8
which turned into WA8 calls. Go figure.


Still haven't heard from Dan. Perhaps we could sked for a nice chat - as
long as he can put up with a "newbie". Better keep it slow, say 30 words
per minute cw with no automated copy devices. I suppose if he pushes me,
I
might consider 40. Not much more, however; I'm not up to that stuff
anymore. Of course, if push came to shove .... I might be willing to give
the high-speed stuff a crack, but don't expect much from a former WN
prefix.

If he *really* wants to push the envelope, I'd be willing to take a week
and
meet him using American Land-Line Morse. Should be good for a hoot. No
more than 16, however, as I'd be using a mental look-up table. Not enough
call for land-line Morse to make it worthwhile to get good at it. I only
used it once in 1968. Of course, I hadn't copied Morse since 1969 when I
retook the extra in 1993 .... at 20 words per minute ....


Haven't heard from me? This is the first time I saw this. Sure I'll sked
ya. I'm on 3.575 every evening at 1900CST, that would be 2000Z. On
Sundays I am net control (local time).

I have not used the railroad code in 40 years, so I'll pass on that one.

The only thing that is automatic in my cw is my ability to copy. Should
still do well at 50 or so. If not we qrs.

Send me a e-mail and follow my SPAM catchers instructions. I don't give a
rip who believe me here.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
snip
Yes it is, and yes I am. So what? The general theory was mainly
concerned
with freqs used by Generals and HF stuff. At that time in history the
Tech
test was centered around V/Uhf stuff.

So that would also make most of the generals in the last 15 years also a
give away license? Seeing as the only difference was 13wpm.

snip

No, just a no coder. Unless of course you did pass a 5wpm test. Then
you would be a Technician. Hi hi.

I took the 5wpm when I did my novice.


Congrats....so did I. Then I jumped over the Tech and took my General at
13wpm, then my Advanced then my Extra at 20wpm. Your point is?

Dan/W4NTI


My point was in answer to your statement!

KC8GXW wrote:
But you still have to pay the VE fee, and have earned that
Tech in the first place. Not a giveaway or a free upgrade.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I was just being sarcastic because I have been told I have a give away tech license!

Well, whoever told you that was full of beans and didn't know
what s/he was talking about. Probably just sour grapes.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...

"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...


[snip]


But there are too many no code tech's that get a vanity call now adays.

Which totally sucks. The FCC at ONE TIME wanted distintive callsigns for
class of license. Now it is too much work to bother with. What a joke
they are.


They are still limited to getting a call that is limited by their license
class. Technicians were assigned 1x3 calls until the sequentially available
1x3 calls ran out. That some now choose to get a 1x3 vanity only means that
they are getting a call that they are entitled to by license class.


As a matter of fact the FCC once considered the W/K prefix "prefered
calls". And at one time the FCC required you to change your call if you
permanetly moved to another district. And in deference to the W/K....if
you had one they would issue another from the prefered block.

Which is how I got my present call (W4NTI) because I used to have K8BHH.
Course that all went to crap with the alphabet soup system of today.

There's an Extra near here that still has his K8*** call, he was a tech
until the early nineties and upgraded to Extra when it was still 20 wpm.

So what? having a old K8 means he has a original issue K8 call. You
don't seem to comprehend that what was this and what is now ain't no where
near the same. All there was back then was W and K calls, followed by
WA, WB, WD, then a re-issue for a while, then the alphabet soup we have
today.


The FCC could have issued N calls back then if they had wanted to. The
block was assigned to the US.

There's no "alphabet soup" crap today. The call sign eligibility is the
same as it has been since they initiated the 5 level license class decades
ago. We have the same call sign eligibility today as then. The problem is
that a lot of call signs have been "used" and so they went to the next
available block. Ws were used first, then Ks, and then Ns and then As.

Today no call district has 1x3s available for sequential issue (except
perhaps for some of the special territories). In addition 1x2s and 2x1s are
no long available for sequential issue. Why? They have all been issued.
The only available ones are those that have been returned to the pool by
lack of renewal by the licensee for whatever reason. It will not be long
now before the last block of Extra class call signs (2x2 beginning with AA -
AL) is used up in the sequential system. The only reason it hasn't is that
a lot of people are keeping their old call signs instead of getting new ones
when they upgrade.

If someone comes into a license session today with no license and passes the
code, Tech written and General written all in one sitting, he/she will
receive a 2x3 call. Yes even a General will receive a 2x3 if it is a new
issue. To get a call "reflecting his class", means that the new General has
to search for vacated calls and find one available and get it as a vanity.

I kept my original call sign when I upgraded to advanced and then extra as
there were no 1x2s left in my call district. I didn't like the 2x1s or the
2x2s.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Balanced hams, is that like a "ham and swiss?" a balanced meal? grin

John
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


John Smith wrote:
Really? What else I am supposed to be doing, listening for ET?
tongue-in-cheek

Warmest regards,
John

It's OK. Really. Balanced hams don't worry about what the fringe
think.

;^)

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks.
Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the
very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.

I don't know about all area's but I can say this, for the 8th
district...circa summer of 1961 they did indeed re-issue K calls. I
received KN8BHH, my friend received KN8BBL, another friend received
KN8DEN,
etc. however just a month or so later another group of buds received WN8
which turned into WA8 calls. Go figure.


Still haven't heard from Dan. Perhaps we could sked for a nice chat -
as
long as he can put up with a "newbie". Better keep it slow, say 30
words
per minute cw with no automated copy devices. I suppose if he pushes
me,
I
might consider 40. Not much more, however; I'm not up to that stuff
anymore. Of course, if push came to shove .... I might be willing to
give
the high-speed stuff a crack, but don't expect much from a former WN
prefix.

If he *really* wants to push the envelope, I'd be willing to take a week
and
meet him using American Land-Line Morse. Should be good for a hoot. No
more than 16, however, as I'd be using a mental look-up table. Not
enough
call for land-line Morse to make it worthwhile to get good at it. I
only
used it once in 1968. Of course, I hadn't copied Morse since 1969 when
I
retook the extra in 1993 .... at 20 words per minute ....


Haven't heard from me? This is the first time I saw this. Sure I'll sked
ya. I'm on 3.575 every evening at 1900CST, that would be 2000Z. On
Sundays I am net control (local time).

I have not used the railroad code in 40 years, so I'll pass on that one.

The only thing that is automatic in my cw is my ability to copy. Should
still do well at 50 or so. If not we qrs.

Send me a e-mail and follow my SPAM catchers instructions. I don't give a
rip who believe me here.

Dan/W4NTI




Hello, Dan

Should be fun. I could well loose, who knows? But I'll tell you what, I
hope both of us learn a bit of respect for each other. I honestly don't
know how well I'll do much past 40 as it has been quite a few years - but
I'm willing to give it a try. I will get your addy minus the spam catcher
and explain further.

Hang on to your shorts, it might be a bumpy ride LOL

Seriously, Dan, I hope we can end this one on a friendly note. I get upset
sometimes with some of the threads. I bear no ill will against newcomers
nor old timers. I do hope you read what I stated concerning the 1X3 and 1X2
call signs. I was being honest there.

In any case, I'll be in touch. Wanna bet that we'll hear from Len on this
one? A beer? LOL

BTW, you are right about the KN prefixes. Those became the KX3 calls. At
the time, however, New York was the most populus state and the 2 district
was into the WB2 calls. I've still got my original novice license issued in
1962 as WN2CJV which would have become a WB2 call. I'm willing to try and
take a digital photo of it and send it to you if you wish. There are
differences between districts. And I still abide by my thoughts that the
average WA or WB has been licensed longer than the average 1X2 or 1X3 call
simply because of the FCC and its' vanity call sign program.

All other stuff aside, when did you use land-line? How long have you been
licensed? I am not trying to say I'm a real old-timer; I'm not. I am
simply making the argument that due to the vanity call sign program, a lot,
if not most, of the 1X2 and 1X3 calls are vanity calls. I also was WA3RJX
some 6 years *after* being WB2OSP. It is a matter of the call district. If
you move, you loose (at least back in the days). I was N2JH in the early
70s, given the time to renew one's license, that was some 10 years and more
after the WN2CJV (or even the WB2OSP) ticket.

Heck, maybe after we get a time and frequency (and the 4 call district might
be tough except for 40 meters), perhaps we can get a few others on the
frequency.

I'd almost bet that Hans could wipe us both out ... but we can see ....

Tell ya what, if Lennie comes up on frequency on CW, I'm gonna quit right
then and there!

Let's give it a go.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I am
simply making the argument that due to the vanity call sign program, a
lot,
if not most, of the 1X2 and 1X3 calls are vanity calls.

I disagree. Most of the 1x2 and 1x3 calls seem to be "original issue" not
vanity calls. I know only a handful of people that have gotten vanity calls
and they have had a tough time finding a call that they liked as there just
aren't (and haven't been) that many of the calls available.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE