Bill Turner wrote:


And why is it a racist slur?

__________________________________________________ ____________

To hell with all this PC crap. You call me a Yank, I'll call you a Paki
and we'll have a beer and laugh about the silliness of some people.

--
Bill, W6WRT

For the uneducated redneck you must be to post such idiocy, to bring it
closer to home, you should say "I'll call you ****** and we'll have a
beer ..."

Since when is racism PC crap? Heard about Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan, Kashmir?

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
Bill Turner wrote:


And why is it a racist slur?

__________________________________________________ ____________

To hell with all this PC crap. You call me a Yank, I'll call you a Paki
and we'll have a beer and laugh about the silliness of some people.

--
Bill, W6WRT

For the uneducated redneck you must be to post such idiocy, to bring it
closer to home, you should say "I'll call you ****** and we'll have a
beer ..."

Since when is racism PC crap? Heard about Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan, Kashmir?
__________________________________________________ ____________

Here we go again. More PC hand wringing from the mewling, overly sensitive
leftistas.
Go to Rwanda and tell those black thugs with machetes in their hands to
stop. See what it will get you.

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 23:22:04 GMT, Aristotle wrote:

I know that most Indians speak good English, and I have no problem
with their accent. But I had one once who apparently did not
understand English. It was as if he was reading from a script and was
expecting a certain answer back. It was VERY frustrating. Perhaps if
these call centers were a little more discriminating in who they
hired.

The problem which I find most is not lack of fluency with English
(in any of its variations) but lack of fluency in the subject at
hand. How can you get assistance with a PC card driver, for
instance, when the person doesn't know (or denies) that the
particular operating system which is being used exists?

Fortunately these problems don't crop up that often for me.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

While they don't crop up that often for me either, I don't bother to call
the help desks for the very reason that you mention. I just keep plodding
along until I manage to figure it out for myself.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 23:22:04 GMT, Aristotle wrote:

I know that most Indians speak good English, and I have no problem
with their accent. But I had one once who apparently did not
understand English. It was as if he was reading from a script and was
expecting a certain answer back. It was VERY frustrating. Perhaps if
these call centers were a little more discriminating in who they
hired.

The problem which I find most is not lack of fluency with English
(in any of its variations) but lack of fluency in the subject at
hand. How can you get assistance with a PC card driver, for
instance, when the person doesn't know (or denies) that the
particular operating system which is being used exists?

Fortunately these problems don't crop up that often for me.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

While they don't crop up that often for me either, I don't bother to call
the help desks for the very reason that you mention. I just keep plodding
along until I manage to figure it out for myself.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Agreed, Dee. I am fortunate in that I have several savvy friends who are
more than willing to assist me in my times of need. I also find it a
personal challenge to muddle through the glitches as they crop up and try to
resolve them myself. It is a great "hands-on" learning experience.
At least that is how I view it.

I guess it is a trade-off, eh? Spend two hours on the phone listening to
canned music or spend two hours figuring it out for one's self. As you said,
it doesn't crop all that often.

John S. wrote:

"The US politicians seem addicted to using overseas call centres."

JS Just how are politicians addicted to using overseas calling
centers. Other than the occasional one who might call a porn talk site
of course....


Good point. I should have been more precise and said that many US state
governments are too quick to ship jobs overseas. An irony in all of this is that
many of the social assistance programs are managed out of country. If the jobs
were kept in North America, there would be far fewer people needing the services
of the very people that deprived them of a possible income.




mike

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
For the uneducated redneck you must be to post such idiocy, to bring it
closer to home, you should say "I'll call you ****** and we'll have a
beer ..."

I heard something similar said by a friend at the Legion Hall last night!
(grin)
The beer and liquor was flowing last night you see..


Since when is racism PC crap? Heard about Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan,
Kashmir?

Yes.

Those are four countries which should have been left up to their
own devices and not rcvd on dime of Foreign (USA) Aide.
Bosnia is populated by the descendents of migrating gypsies who want to
set up a quasi-Islamic State right on Europe's doorstep. They just may
get the chance now thanks to Bill Clinton's intervention in the former
Yugoslavia in the late 90's. Bottom line is that country and it's neighbors
were much better off under Tito who kept them in order with an iron rod.
When he kicked off you saw Yugoslavia go right back to it's pre - WW-I
borders and the conflicts of the turn of the last Century flared up again.
This area has been a historic breeding ground for hotheads anyway going
back several hundred Years.

As for Rwanda and Sudan, here you have a classic case of religious fervor
mixed with a climate and landscape not unlike the moon (albeit hot and dry)
and a race of people who breed like hedgerow rabbits. Anyone with even a
partial working brain can see this is a powderkeg just waiting to go off.
There's too damm many people in Africa anyway, overpopulation run
amuck with rampant Islam and corrupt politics, so you can be sure that
Mother Nature is going to do her best to cull this herd for sure! She's
doing
it right now via HIV, desertification and climate change. Sit back and
watch
M.N. in action kids! Amazing how she can clear off the land of the human
locusts and yet leave the raw materials intact eh? Sort of like a Neutron
Bomb
in slo-motion....

Finally we have Kashmir! A disputed border region being roe'd about by
Pakistan and India. Two countries who have two greatly opposing religions
and a population that breeds like field mice...and best of all...THEY BOTH
HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS!! Now this is a comedy act we really need
to watch very closely folks. I will never forget seeing the video of
ignorant and
inbred pakistanies a few years ago, riding atop a fake nuclear missile prop
in a victory parade urging their Govt. to launch a real one onto Deli or
Bombay.
This was the 'paki' version of "Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned Love The
Bomb" with Dr Kahn playing Peter Sellers. Here you have a group of people
who would love to see parts of India glow with radioactivity, and yet they
forget
that the fallout would rain down on Pakistan afterwards! (talk about
nuclear
Darwinism!) The Indians are not much better, they believe in 1000 different
gods and are not worried if they get nuked because they will come back as
a monkey or a cow or some other mutated form of life. One wants to nuke
Krishina for Allah....the other wants to nuke Allah for Krishina....GO
FIGURE!

Know what I say folks...? LET THEM KILL EACH OTHER OFF !

There are too dammed many people on this Planet anyway, and the masses
of candidates for a mass-culling are, for the most part: stupid, easily led
by
religious craptrap, uneducated, and baby-making machines. In short an army
of biomass which is incapable of intellectual advancement, which thus must
advance itself via sheer numbers by rampant biomass and unrestrained
breeding.
A living cancer on the face of the planetscape. Yes, let them kill each
other off
via Mother Natures help. She's already giving us a warning that the
planet's reserves
of petroleum products have reached their peak (look up 'Peak Oil' on
google) and
it's all downhill from here folks. The 3rd extinction has begun and it has
been caused
by HUMANS!

In closing , let me remind you of the words of the Georgia Guidestones:

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world
court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
10.Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for
nature.

They say it all !

uncle arnie wrote:

Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is the
key to a whole new kind of career.

Depending on what you are calling about the last time I called for
assistance with my Dell was last month the call went to Manilla. The
month before that it was Deli.

wrote in message
...
uncle arnie wrote:

Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian
call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio
link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is the
key to a whole new kind of career.

Depending on what you are calling about the last time I called for
assistance with my Dell was last month the call went to Manilla. The
month before that it was Deli.


It will generally depend upon the time of day that you are calling in for
assistance. Companies route their calls to the area of the world that is
"awake" when you are calling.

Mind everyone on ths thread: I keep seeing posts as though it is only
computer help that has call centers in foreign lands. That is incorrect.
There's a huge swing in the United States to outsource any--*any*--telephone
contact to foreign "BPOs" (Business Process Outsourcers). That means any
customer service you can think of, is more than likely being answered
overseas. Why? It's not that call centers here in the United States can't
be personed (being politically correct) 24-hrs a day. It's the bottom line.
It's supposedly cheaper to have the work done overseas. I doubt that it is,
given frustration levels of customers and, more definitely, the long term
effect of taking all that kind of work out of this country, putting people
out of work, and ultimately destroying your own customer base by not being
able to sell product. However, the short-term, money hungry, uncaring CEO
and affiliated BOD who are lining their pockets with their savings don't
care.

Kim W5TIT

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?


Sorry, Jim, almost like the bottom-line driven CEOs and BODs we have these
days, I was interested in speed, not accuracy


Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around
$300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one
guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life
insurance.


In my company, MANY were within 6 mos. of eligible retirement age. Company
was asked, "why". Response: "it had to be done sometime, 'it's just
business.'" So, employees take note: forget about dedication to job and
customer, "it's just business." And, that attitude is quite evident in
customer service these days. You would probably believe how many people I
know who complain all the time about those "automated" response systems when
you call for help these days. Whenever I get someone on the phone, I tell
them that it's just miserable. Know what response I get? "That is the way
business operates and it is considered a Best Practice standard." Not even
a: "I will log your complaint." Know why? Because we, as consumers, accept
mediocrity and that becomes the local conversation when we gather with
friends. We talk about it, but we do nothing to try to resolve it. Uh, by
the way, I'm right in there and, whenever I try to think of how to battle
it, I can't come up with a solution because it's so ingrained in business
practice that EVERYONE is doing it.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00
per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance. I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.


Get this. Our adventure began a little over a year ago. Company "migrated"
all customer ops (because that was not their "core business"
[huh????????!!!!!!!!!!!!] to a firm where we are all now "contractors."
BUT, previous employer holds out severance package IF employees are
terminated within 18 months. We should have all figured out then that we
were all going to be terminated within 18 months...LOL Many are gone, the
rest are just waiting. Bad business, just can't convince and bigwigs of it
because, of course, their pockets are heavily lined with the savings.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note
that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or the
current administration.


Refer to my upper paragraph on that. In another thread, "Indian Call
Centers" I think it is, I just posted that companies who are exporting
technical and customer service jobs don't realize that it means in the
future, they won't have customers to buy products. And, why should our
youth look at the career path of technology because it's all being
"outsourced." We already have a critically severe shortage of doctors,
nurses, and medical specialists (granted, not because of outsourcing but
because--it is said--our up and coming youth see the long hours and little
money and don't want to do it) coming up in the next ten years. I've
already heard many, many children of career technology parents being
counseled NOT to enter into the computer/technological because their job
function will not be there and/or will eventually lead to being outsourced.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8 hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to
other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".


Heh heh...the gist in the company I work for is, beginning many years and
into recent years, frustrated programmers and data folks--who were
confronted with the silo attitude whenever they would request access into a
system--began writing their own little "additions" and subroutines to
existing processes. There are, literally, boxes that whir and run and no
one has a clue to what they are doing. Why? Because the person is long
gone and do ya think they'd be interested in helping out? LOL Anyone who
thinks their systems are pristinely designed and operated, with "one path"
philosophy...are in a la la land.

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When
our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about
the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).
When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't
save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty, but
in this case .... )

Make my day.


I hear ya...and feel your pain.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as
"geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real
flack.
It is about time that they did.


I can nearly guarantee you that they won't care. Think about it. The
proverbial CEOs makes millions the first year in a company, and has not one
iota of plan to stay there for the long-term. The BODs are the same way.
The only place it needs to begin to show that people care is at the customer
level. And, once again as in politics, we've been fat, happy, and stupid.
And, the problem we now face, in politics and in our workforce, seems
insurmountable. I'm sounding terribly gloomy and doomy...but I know at
least you will understand what I'm talking about.

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.


Yep. You got it. When a collective is needed...heh heh...it doesn't matter
but that there is a collective.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




Never been one much for patience with "holier than thou's," heh, as you have
seen in my posts with this newsgroup in the past. Don't have time for 'em,
don't care about 'em, don't care what they THINK they have over and on me.
Because, you know what? When it all crashes, I don't think nuttin' of going
out in the back yard and planting a garden. Many of them haven't even ever
touched dirt--or had to.

Kim W5TIT

Kim wrote:
wrote in message
...
uncle arnie wrote:

Mind everyone on ths thread: I keep seeing posts as
though it is only
computer help that has call centers in foreign lands.
That is incorrect.
There's a huge swing in the United States to outsource
any--*any*--telephone
contact to foreign "BPOs" (Business Process Outsourcers).
That means any
customer service you can think of, is more than likely
being answered
overseas. Why? It's not that call centers here
in the United States can't
be personed (being politically correct) 24-hrs a day.
It's the bottom line.
It's supposedly cheaper to have the work done overseas.
I doubt that it is,
given frustration levels of customers and, more
definitely, the long term
effect of taking all that kind of work
out of this country, putting people
out of work, and ultimately destroying your own customer base
by not being able to sell product.

I agree 100%, Kim. The key part of what you wrote is "short term".
Those in charge cannot seem to understand that they
are driving their companies under in the long term.

However, the short-term, money hungry, uncaring CEO
and affiliated BOD who are lining their pockets with their
savings don't care.

It's even worse in some ways. Many of them are hired with
obscenely lucrative severance packages as part of their
packages. So if they do a "good job", they get big bonuses,
and if they do a bad job and are sacked, they get an
enormous (as in tens of millions) goodbye.

Puts a new twist on "win-win".

Look at the woman (just to show it's an equal-opportunity
game for those at the top) who ran Hewlett Packard into the ground for
a classic example.

The thing that's most classic about it is that the top dogs
claim they need to pay those high salaries and benefits
to get good people. Yet somehow that doesn't translate to the
rank and file.

--

Historic note: Way back in Model T days, Henry Ford was
criticized for paying his workers $5 per day, at a time when
that was really high wages for skilled manufacturing workers.

His reply was something to the effect that he wanted his workers to be
able to afford the product they were making - that it
didn't make sense to be producing something the average working
person could not afford to own.

Kim W5TIT


73 de Jim, N2EY