I am betting just the opposite, and I bet the code reader can copy at a
speed long after the human reader is all done...

one advantage, in microseconds the code reader can guess at the
likelihood of what character the dot/dash sequence is in logical
relation to forward and reverse characters (whenever there is a slight
doubt)... the human reader would just be sitting there losing
characters...

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... actually, the only thing I have found that I can't allow for is
someone's sloppy key (you must decide what range of microseconds is a
dit, and what is the dah-- I have been kicking around the idea of a
piece of code to "sample" the senders "style" and automatically
adjust--but that is for tomorrow--and would be great if the code
could automatically duplicate his "sloppy style" and feed it back to
him grin) but then--sloppy key is no easier to copy with ear then
by reader...

John


Depends on how you define easier. The ear can copy code so sloppy
that no computer/soundcard/software would ever decipher it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
I don't think there is a ham alive which can beat my keyboard,
hooked to a "electronic key" and sending morse, nor my sound card
doubling as a "code reader" and producing text on screen from cw...
You mean to tell me people actually use "real keys" still--gawd, I
thought all those sk tongue-in-cheek

Warmest regards,
John

When conditions are poor, even some one as poor at morse code as I
am can beat a "code reader" sound card/computer.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
I am betting just the opposite, and I bet the code reader can copy at a
speed long after the human reader is all done...


Speed is a different issue than sloppy sending.

one advantage, in microseconds the code reader can guess at the likelihood
of what character the dot/dash sequence is in logical relation to forward
and reverse characters (whenever there is a slight doubt)... the human
reader would just be sitting there losing characters...

No the human brain does the same type of "fill" once they get past the point
of having to copy every single letter manually. Even if they do have to
copy manually as I do, it's easy to fill in the missing letters most of the
time. Of course you have to train yourself not to dwell on what was missed,
a common beginner problem.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

.... so, we can throw away the scientific calculators and go back to
slide rules--I think not... a code reader is that kind of difference...
of course, I am the type of guy would wouldn't go back to regen
receivers either...

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
I am betting just the opposite, and I bet the code reader can copy at
a speed long after the human reader is all done...


Speed is a different issue than sloppy sending.

one advantage, in microseconds the code reader can guess at the
likelihood of what character the dot/dash sequence is in logical
relation to forward and reverse characters (whenever there is a
slight doubt)... the human reader would just be sitting there losing
characters...

No the human brain does the same type of "fill" once they get past the
point of having to copy every single letter manually. Even if they do
have to copy manually as I do, it's easy to fill in the missing
letters most of the time. Of course you have to train yourself not to
dwell on what was missed, a common beginner problem.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

The human ear, brain, hand combo does that now.

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... actually, the only thing I have found that I can't allow for is
someone's sloppy key (you must decide what range of microseconds is a dit,
and what is the dah-- I have been kicking around the idea of a piece of
code to "sample" the senders "style" and automatically adjust--but that is
for tomorrow--and would be great if the code could automatically duplicate
his "sloppy style" and feed it back to him grin) but then--sloppy key
is no easier to copy with ear then by reader...

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
I don't think there is a ham alive which can beat my keyboard, hooked to
a "electronic key" and sending morse, nor my sound card doubling as a
"code reader" and producing text on screen from cw...
You mean to tell me people actually use "real keys" still--gawd, I
thought all those sk tongue-in-cheek

Warmest regards,
John

When conditions are poor, even some one as poor at morse code as I am can
beat a "code reader" sound card/computer.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

I am not talking about illegals, or minorities. At least try to stay on
subject.

Dan/W4NTI
"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... let's reset back to reality, there are fewer hams in the world--than
illegal aliens in the state of california (and about 41 million illegals
in the nation)...
a true minority... the number of new keys are simply not worth mentioning
in comparison... hams must be THE smallest minority wanting special
privileges for a damn hobby! ... if you haven't thought of it like that
before--think of it now--not all are fools...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
Oh really? Then how do we explain the young contesters out there? Or
the many QSOs I have with hams on CW in their 20s and 30s? And I don't
operate at 5wpm. Neither do they...think maybe they picked up some
speed, eh?

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Morse is a ghost language spoken by old men when they do their rants and
name their illnesses--much to the dismay of the vital and youthful
hams...

The new 5 WPM test for all classes will guarantee you will NOT be
speaking morse to any young men--they will pass the 5 WPM to get the
extra license... then you will never see them again--except on phone and
modem...

John
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
nk.net...
Bet the pilots among them know Morse.

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Well, all the astronauts are no code techs... guess those no-code'ers
are in good and technical company...

Warmest regards,
John
wrote in message
oups.com...
From: John Smith on Jun 8, 5:50 pm

You would think the ARRL high priest would not abandon these
guys--times
must be tough...

http://www.arrl.org/news/stori?es/2004/05/22/1/?nc=1

John
--
Watching the cutting edge of yesterday replay--in virtual reality,
right
before my eyes--in real time!
Thirty year old technology--wasn't it amazing?

Tsk. It took the League long enough to see the "duhhhh..." :-)

They've had adequate numbers all along. They've been seeing
only what they want to believe.

As of the end of 2004 the League had only 140 thousand members.
That's about 20 percent of all U.S. amateur licensees. [from
QST advertising webpage]

Haynie has said that a "survey" showed fully 1 in 5 hams
actually got on the air? Oh, my, a remarkable coincidence
in the percentage of League membership. :-)

[we now pause to have all loyal league believers vent their
rage against those who defile 'their' organization...]

My gawd man, have you been asleep... I heard about that happening
before--think it was a chap named "Rip Van Winkle" it happened to...

.... Naa, we got rovers on mars and can interface just about anything to
anything these days... they invented the computer too... only real
limitation is the operators mind... indeed, computers now design
components/hardware--just can assemble teams of techs large enough to
compete with 'em these days...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
The human ear, brain, hand combo does that now.

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... actually, the only thing I have found that I can't allow for is
someone's sloppy key (you must decide what range of microseconds is a
dit, and what is the dah-- I have been kicking around the idea of a
piece of code to "sample" the senders "style" and automatically
adjust--but that is for tomorrow--and would be great if the code
could automatically duplicate his "sloppy style" and feed it back to
him grin) but then--sloppy key is no easier to copy with ear then
by reader...

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
I don't think there is a ham alive which can beat my keyboard,
hooked to a "electronic key" and sending morse, nor my sound card
doubling as a "code reader" and producing text on screen from cw...
You mean to tell me people actually use "real keys" still--gawd, I
thought all those sk tongue-in-cheek

Warmest regards,
John

When conditions are poor, even some one as poor at morse code as I
am can beat a "code reader" sound card/computer.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

.... no, you are talking about a minority which has no comparison...
hams... but next closest minority is illegal aliens...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
I am not talking about illegals, or minorities. At least try to stay
on subject.

Dan/W4NTI
"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... let's reset back to reality, there are fewer hams in the
world--than illegal aliens in the state of california (and about 41
million illegals in the nation)...
a true minority... the number of new keys are simply not worth
mentioning in comparison... hams must be THE smallest minority
wanting special privileges for a damn hobby! ... if you haven't
thought of it like that before--think of it now--not all are fools...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
Oh really? Then how do we explain the young contesters out there?
Or the many QSOs I have with hams on CW in their 20s and 30s? And I
don't operate at 5wpm. Neither do they...think maybe they picked up
some speed, eh?

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Morse is a ghost language spoken by old men when they do their
rants and name their illnesses--much to the dismay of the vital and
youthful hams...

The new 5 WPM test for all classes will guarantee you will NOT be
speaking morse to any young men--they will pass the 5 WPM to get
the extra license... then you will never see them again--except on
phone and modem...

John
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
nk.net...
Bet the pilots among them know Morse.

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Well, all the astronauts are no code techs... guess those
no-code'ers are in good and technical company...

Warmest regards,
John
wrote in message
oups.com...
From: John Smith on Jun 8, 5:50 pm

You would think the ARRL high priest would not abandon these
guys--times
must be tough...

http://www.arrl.org/news/stori?es/2004/05/22/1/?nc=1

John
--
Watching the cutting edge of yesterday replay--in virtual
reality, right
before my eyes--in real time!
Thirty year old technology--wasn't it amazing?

Tsk. It took the League long enough to see the "duhhhh..."
:-)

They've had adequate numbers all along. They've been seeing
only what they want to believe.

As of the end of 2004 the League had only 140 thousand
members.
That's about 20 percent of all U.S. amateur licensees. [from
QST advertising webpage]

Haynie has said that a "survey" showed fully 1 in 5 hams
actually got on the air? Oh, my, a remarkable coincidence
in the percentage of League membership. :-)

[we now pause to have all loyal league believers vent their
rage against those who defile 'their' organization...]

.... I have seen this symptom before--always comes from taking yourself
and your hobby MUCH too seriously... most recommend "get a life" when
they see individuals struck with this illness...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
I am not talking about illegals, or minorities. At least try to stay
on subject.

Dan/W4NTI
"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... let's reset back to reality, there are fewer hams in the
world--than illegal aliens in the state of california (and about 41
million illegals in the nation)...
a true minority... the number of new keys are simply not worth
mentioning in comparison... hams must be THE smallest minority
wanting special privileges for a damn hobby! ... if you haven't
thought of it like that before--think of it now--not all are fools...

John

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...
Oh really? Then how do we explain the young contesters out there?
Or the many QSOs I have with hams on CW in their 20s and 30s? And I
don't operate at 5wpm. Neither do they...think maybe they picked up
some speed, eh?

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Morse is a ghost language spoken by old men when they do their
rants and name their illnesses--much to the dismay of the vital and
youthful hams...

The new 5 WPM test for all classes will guarantee you will NOT be
speaking morse to any young men--they will pass the 5 WPM to get
the extra license... then you will never see them again--except on
phone and modem...

John
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
nk.net...
Bet the pilots among them know Morse.

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Well, all the astronauts are no code techs... guess those
no-code'ers are in good and technical company...

Warmest regards,
John
wrote in message
oups.com...
From: John Smith on Jun 8, 5:50 pm

You would think the ARRL high priest would not abandon these
guys--times
must be tough...

http://www.arrl.org/news/stori?es/2004/05/22/1/?nc=1

John
--
Watching the cutting edge of yesterday replay--in virtual
reality, right
before my eyes--in real time!
Thirty year old technology--wasn't it amazing?

Tsk. It took the League long enough to see the "duhhhh..."
:-)

They've had adequate numbers all along. They've been seeing
only what they want to believe.

As of the end of 2004 the League had only 140 thousand
members.
That's about 20 percent of all U.S. amateur licensees. [from
QST advertising webpage]

Haynie has said that a "survey" showed fully 1 in 5 hams
actually got on the air? Oh, my, a remarkable coincidence
in the percentage of League membership. :-)

[we now pause to have all loyal league believers vent their
rage against those who defile 'their' organization...]

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... so, we can throw away the scientific calculators and go back to slide
rules--I think not... a code reader is that kind of difference... of
course, I am the type of guy would wouldn't go back to regen receivers
either...

John


Your comparison falls down. It is more like retaining the ability to do
mathematics with pencil and paper occasionally.

All the code readers I've seen fail except under ideal conditions (i.e.
strong signal, near perfect fist, little static, little fading).

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

no... the old hams have become as out dated as regen receivers... they
may think no ones notices... we do... it is ok to fool others, but when
you only end up being a fool from your efforts you have failed to stop
listening to others telling you about it... you now go on to tell
everyone else "how it is"--failing to comprehend that everyone has
already stopped listening...

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... so, we can throw away the scientific calculators and go back to
slide rules--I think not... a code reader is that kind of
difference... of course, I am the type of guy would wouldn't go back
to regen receivers either...

John


Your comparison falls down. It is more like retaining the ability to
do mathematics with pencil and paper occasionally.

All the code readers I've seen fail except under ideal conditions
(i.e. strong signal, near perfect fist, little static, little fading).

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE