Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv


BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical
in
nature way back in the early 60s.

Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you
said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments?

And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode.

Dan/W4NTI

If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW
used most often?


No I have not commented on anything with the FCC other than BPL and sending
in reports about
K1MAN.

I figured out a long time ago the FCC was basically a lap dog of the ARRL
when it comes to
dumbing down of the license structure. And my pitiful input wasn't going to
have any affect
at all.

So "bb".....does that blow your mind, or what?

Dan/W4NTI

No. I can understand your attitude about the FCC.

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where
are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't"
pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state
of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv


BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being
technical
in
nature way back in the early 60s.

Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you
said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments?

And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode.

Dan/W4NTI

If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW
used most often?


How do you know it wasn't/isn't? I worked a fair number of stations on
CW
in that contest.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Because Dan said, "And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode."

Was Dan wrong?

You know, you and David Heil K8MN ought to let Dan answer the questions
that I asked of Dan instead of jumping in here and getting it wrong.

Best of Luck.


Not a problem Dee. "bb'' is just showing his ignorance.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators. On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv

It's so refreshing to see Extras being Extras again; having their usual
disdain for the No Code Techs. And some people have to ask who chased
away the Techs.


Does the name "DIP****" mean anything to you "bb" ? Just curious.

Dan/W4NTI

Yes, it does, but Steve Robeson K4YZ isn't part of this thread.

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where
are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't"
pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state
of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv


BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being
technical
in
nature way back in the early 60s.

Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you
said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments?

And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode.

Dan/W4NTI

If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW
used most often?


How do you know it wasn't/isn't? I worked a fair number of stations on
CW
in that contest.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Because Dan said, "And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode."

Was Dan wrong?

You know, you and David Heil K8MN ought to let Dan answer the questions
that I asked of Dan instead of jumping in here and getting it wrong.

Best of Luck.

Not a problem Dee. "bb'' is just showing his ignorance.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan, is or isn't "MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode?"

Thanks.

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:


I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't"
pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv


BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical
in
nature way back in the early 60s.


Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you
said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments?


And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode.

Dan/W4NTI


If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW
used most often?

It is used, "bb", but ops are attempting to maximize score by working
everyone, even those not using CW. I switch modes quite often during
the course of a VHF/UHF contest. During heavy aurora, CW works much
better than SSB. I'd have thought you'd have already known it.

Dave K8MN

Dee made it sound like Extras were working Extras on SSB. I guess it
wasn't at all like Dee claimed.


You read way too much into the original post. I didn't mention mode.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators.
So
where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they
"can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Hey Dee,

Good question actually. Perhaps they are part of the vast majority of
hams
that are inactive.

More likely they are all "stuck" on FM and have not a clue what else is
going on with V/Uhf. What a shame.

Dan/W4NTI

Ah, yes. The Shameful, Clueless Techs. With attitudes like yours,
it's no wonder they don't hang around.


I don't recall anyone on here, other than you "bb", using the word Shameful
or
Clueless regarding the Technician licensees.

I do. You used the phrases, "not a clue" and "what a shame" to
describe Techs who chose to be "stuck" on FM.

All I see is folks stating
they don't
understand why the Techs don't take full advantage of their full license
privileges.

You go beyond that. You imply that there's something wrong with them.

You sir, are nothing but a agitator and a disgrace to ham radio in general,
assuming
you have a license that is.

Dan/W4NTI

You are the disgrace, Dan. Your bad attitude about Techs says it all.

Let me guess... You're an Extra, right?

Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:


I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't"
pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv


BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical
in
nature way back in the early 60s.


Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you
said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments?


And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode.

Dan/W4NTI


If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW
used most often?

It is used, "bb", but ops are attempting to maximize score by working
everyone, even those not using CW. I switch modes quite often during
the course of a VHF/UHF contest. During heavy aurora, CW works much
better than SSB. I'd have thought you'd have already known it.

Dave K8MN

Dee made it sound like Extras were working Extras on SSB. I guess it
wasn't at all like Dee claimed.


You read way too much into the original post. I didn't mention mode.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

You're correct. Dan claimed the mode most often used was SSB, not you.


So, in the interest of accuracy, can you give a breakout by mode and by
class?

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:

Dee Flint wrote:

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
thlink.net...


[snip]



Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and
myself.

Its as simple as that.

Have a good day

PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the
June
VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Dan/W4NTI




I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators. On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that
they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via
repeaters.

What a wunnerful attitude you have toward Techs, Oh Mighty DXer. And
people have to ask who chased away the Techs. I guess the only time
you would embrace a Tech is if he were calling you out of band on 6M.
Hi!

I don't embrace radio amateurs at all, "bb". A firm handshake is good
enough for me.

That's not what the French do. They kiss you on both cheeks,
especially for handing out contacts and QSL cards for out of band
contacts.

My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed
upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't
chased them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've
tried to encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage
them to try 6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be
faulted that they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are,
in fact "trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have
fashioned the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest
of VHF/UHF amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they
aren't participating.

Dave K8MN

A penny for your thoughts.

Maybe they are on FM yet not trapped at all. Maybe if you let Dee and
Dan finish their thoughts on why they think the Techs are trapped we
would have something worth discussing.


I have never said that they were trapped. It happens to be a belief
expressed by some of the anti-code test people that they are trapped above
30mhz. I've always contended that any such trap is one of their own
perception.


My opinion (that means it's my opinion and I don't have to spend weeks
at the Library of Congress to back up anything that I might say or
forever be known as a liar and/or a gay man) is that those who joined
for emergency communications purposes are perfectly happy with FM, and
do not consider themselves as "trapped." All the "encouragement" in
the world doesn't change their perspective. They're getting what they
want out of amateur radio. What they don't need is to be denigrated by
the Extras that think they need to do more to be a "real" ham.


I do not denigrate any one based on their license class. For those who are
getting all they want out of VHF FM, I am happy for them. But I have no
patience for those who want additional privileges without passing whatever
is the license requirement of the day. I know a couple of Techs who have
been waiting to get a General until the code test is removed but they have
been waiting for ten years. Wasting 10 years is foolish.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...
bb wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:

Dee Flint wrote:

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

[snip]

I and the OM (who is our local club's VHF/UHF SSB
guru) have worked hard at trying to get Techs involved with something
other
than repeater FM.

Why?


Because they have expressed dissatisfaction with repeater FM.

While we have had some modest success, it's only a small
percentage of the Techs who have jumped into these waters.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Have you asked them why they are reluctant to jump into those waters?


They are unwilling to commit to the equipment until they have their General,
not realizing how much fun they can have in the meantime.

Since they've not jumped in, does that change your attitude about them?


Nope, we just keep trying to find ways to let them know that there is much
more available to them than they realize.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures,
substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs
that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency
communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically
stay on FM.

The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have
moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have
moved on.


There are none who cannot learn the code.

Really? Why do you say that?


Because they have already learned many things far tougher than the code.

However there are those for whom
other activities can and should have priority on their time. However
that
is no excuse for eliminating it as a test element since the same argument
can be applied to the theory.

You hold a very interesting point of view. You say that since everyone
can learn the code, that it must be retained as a test element?


No it should be retained because it is one of the basics of amateur radio
along with things like Ohm's law, propagation, etc.

I say that it should be removed as a test element because it no longer
serves a regulatory purpose.


That's a matter of opinion.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE