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#2
July 21st 05, 02:15 AM
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Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: http://www.getboost.com/dz/sienna.htm My thoughts. First, the unit has a lot of promise. While I think I prefer separate components between the computer and the rig for flexibility, this setup might just be fun to use. Some folks might like the integrated internal computer. It's certainly the first rig to offer it. My only concern is that a computer's life cycle is much shorter than most ham rigs'. Of course, the computer would work for all the Ham radio functions at the time of manufacture, so it wouldn't "go" out of date. Would you like a nice 4100 MHz Pentium 1 running Win95 for your shack computer, Mike? Ten years ago, that was a dream machine... Plus my idea given down below might be a winner. Next, I don't buy the teeny florescent screen rationale. My idea of the modern integrated rig is more along the line of looking like a laptop, with a folding large screen on top of the RF portions of the box. But that's just me. You can plug an external VGA display into the rig. Sometimes. But you see, here is what I'm thinking of. A computer with the RF guts, and a laptop of some choice that plugs into the computer, and sets on top of it. Many of the features now used in hardware could be handled by the laptop. You would have logging, digital modes, dsp - probably not important to you, but for a growing group of us, it would be great. Been done. Kachina 505. Also TT Pegasus. Rigs without a front panel. If the laptop were to become obsolete, say if a new mode came along that required too much horsepower, then the unit could be replaced. A mounting kit could be made available. In fact, a radio could be designed so that you could attach your present laptop. Remember the Warbler? In any event what you're suggesting is a rig that is controlled by the computer - an RF modem of sorts. Great if you like that sort of thing, but they didn't sell all that well. Maybe times have changed. Interesting that they chose an LDG autotuner. This is a concept that might be expanded upon. It would be wonderful if ham rigs were like desktop computers in the form of standardization. Sometimes. Why not? Look at what it's done for PCs. Why not for ham rigs? Don't like the computer interface screenshot. I really hope that they do well. I do think the price point is too high. I would be willing to pay extra for an American made unit, but 3K for the entry level, and 6K for the works unit is pretty high. Perhaps - but a lot depends on how well it really performs. Unless of course, the rig has outstanding performance. I would love to see some test results. Mo bettah, some actual on-air performance. Somebody wins CQWW DX with one, then watch the fireworks... Or to really get to the bottom of it: Is it $6000 worth of fun? And is it 6K worth of fun for the XYL? ;^) Who is to say that the spouse doesn't get his/her fun items too? Hoping that they can sell enough to expand the concept, because it is a good one.... Expand which concept? Kits have been around a long time - curious that they never mention Elecraft or any of the other kits... For me, the concept isn't the kit - its the idea of the integral computer, the modular construction, even to using another manufacturers tuner. That *would be* a good thing! Of course my entire main HF rig cost me less than one of their optional filters, so I guess everything is relative.... One more observation on price: Go to the local Home Depot, Lowes or similar outfit, as long as they carry a full range of appliances and such. Look at the ranges, refrigerators, countertops, etc. You can get a nice range for $300-400, or spend double, triple, quadruple that price for one with all the gizmos like self- cleaning, stainless steel, high-capacity oven, dissimilar burners, etc. Same for dishwashers, refrigerators, etc. Countertops? Granite seems to have replaced Corian and similar materials around here, at $100 a square foot, installed. Me, I prefer a nice laminate like Formica, but apparently a lot of folks prefer fancier stuff. Does a burger taste any better if it's made in such a kitchen? I dunno, but they must be selling the fancy stuff because they continue to stock it. If its involved with real estate, people will shuck out astoundingly foolish amounts of money. Sure! But consider: 1) How do home values relate to incomes when adjusted for inflation? Go back 20, 30, 40, 50 years and compare house prices to income levels. Houses were cheap then until you look at what the typical income level was. 2) A house is one of the few investments an individual can make that can be used without selling it. 3) A house is one of the few necessities an individual can buy that will almost certainly appreciate in value. Look at the everyday things you own - how many of them will be worth more in 10 years? 4) Home loan interest is a tax deduction for most people. What other debt reduces your taxes? BTW, those McMansions are becoming very, very hard to resell. Not around here! And it's not the McMansion owners that are buying the stuff. It's the people in older homes who are fixing up. Often it's easier to fix up than to move. 73 de Jim, N2EY 36 years ago today..... |
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#3
July 21st 05, 06:54 PM
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wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: http://www.getboost.com/dz/sienna.htm My thoughts. First, the unit has a lot of promise. While I think I prefer separate components between the computer and the rig for flexibility, this setup might just be fun to use. Some folks might like the integrated internal computer. It's certainly the first rig to offer it. My only concern is that a computer's life cycle is much shorter than most ham rigs'. Of course, the computer would work for all the Ham radio functions at the time of manufacture, so it wouldn't "go" out of date. Would you like a nice 4100 MHz Pentium 1 running Win95 for your shack computer, Mike? Ten years ago, that was a dream machine... I want a computer that can do the work. I can run Digipan (as well as a lot of other soundcard software) on a P1 class computer, as well as a lot of logging software. So assuming that there is not aome huge change in something, the computer will continue to function, the radio will continue to work. Obviously an up to date laptop would be included in any modern designed system. And it would be upgradeable, so it wouldn't be much of a problem. Plus my idea given down below might be a winner. Next, I don't buy the teeny florescent screen rationale. My idea of the modern integrated rig is more along the line of looking like a laptop, with a folding large screen on top of the RF portions of the box. But that's just me. You can plug an external VGA display into the rig. Sometimes. But you see, here is what I'm thinking of. A computer with the RF guts, and a laptop of some choice that plugs into the computer, and sets on top of it. Many of the features now used in hardware could be handled by the laptop. You would have logging, digital modes, dsp - probably not important to you, but for a growing group of us, it would be great. Been done. Kachina 505. Also TT Pegasus. Rigs without a front panel. Not what I am describing. Imagine some sort of HF transciever. Size would be similar to what we use today. A laptop or the equivalent would be setting on top of the device. The laptop would dock into the transciever. Functions would be controlled by the laptop. Although transciever front panel controls would be a possibility, the ideal method for what I am talking about would be all control via the laptop. This would not be a unit that needed a take-along computer, or an LCD screen, both with their own separate power supplies. It would be a unit that you plug in, open the case and "boot" the computer and transciever. There were a few devices that touched on the idea, including the unmanufactured PSK rig by the Sienna people, and another PSK31 kit rig that sits outboard of a laptop. But this would be a full featured rig, SSB, AM, FM, CW, RTTY, PSK Hell, and onaonaonaonaon. At least 100 watts output. DSP that is upgradeable, logging software, and whatever else you might do with the rig. If the laptop were to become obsolete, say if a new mode came along that required too much horsepower, then the unit could be replaced. A mounting kit could be made available. In fact, a radio could be designed so that you could attach your present laptop. Remember the Warbler? Yup. That's about 25 percent of the way there. In any event what you're suggesting is a rig that is controlled by the computer - an RF modem of sorts. Great if you like that sort of thing, but they didn't sell all that well. Maybe times have changed. Not completely. This rig isn't "controlled by the computer, any more than it is controlled by the transmitter. cuz if either one isn't there, it isn't going to work. Interesting that they chose an LDG autotuner. This is a concept that might be expanded upon. It would be wonderful if ham rigs were like desktop computers in the form of standardization. Sometimes. Why not? Look at what it's done for PCs. Why not for ham rigs? One of the areas in which digital people often make a mistake is in thinking that RF is the same thing as digital. That is why they sometimes design skunks like BPL. The idea of an RF PCI board is a little chilling. Perhaps a very low power UHF version, such as my PC card wireless card, of course, but not likely any substsntial power. Don't like the computer interface screenshot. I really hope that they do well. I do think the price point is too high. I would be willing to pay extra for an American made unit, but 3K for the entry level, and 6K for the works unit is pretty high. Perhaps - but a lot depends on how well it really performs. Unless of course, the rig has outstanding performance. I would love to see some test results. Mo bettah, some actual on-air performance. Somebody wins CQWW DX with one, then watch the fireworks... Or to really get to the bottom of it: Is it $6000 worth of fun? And is it 6K worth of fun for the XYL? ;^) Who is to say that the spouse doesn't get his/her fun items too? Hoping that they can sell enough to expand the concept, because it is a good one.... Expand which concept? Kits have been around a long time - curious that they never mention Elecraft or any of the other kits... For me, the concept isn't the kit - its the idea of the integral computer, the modular construction, even to using another manufacturers tuner. That *would be* a good thing! Of course my entire main HF rig cost me less than one of their optional filters, so I guess everything is relative.... One more observation on price: Go to the local Home Depot, Lowes or similar outfit, as long as they carry a full range of appliances and such. Look at the ranges, refrigerators, countertops, etc. You can get a nice range for $300-400, or spend double, triple, quadruple that price for one with all the gizmos like self- cleaning, stainless steel, high-capacity oven, dissimilar burners, etc. Same for dishwashers, refrigerators, etc. Countertops? Granite seems to have replaced Corian and similar materials around here, at $100 a square foot, installed. Me, I prefer a nice laminate like Formica, but apparently a lot of folks prefer fancier stuff. Does a burger taste any better if it's made in such a kitchen? I dunno, but they must be selling the fancy stuff because they continue to stock it. If its involved with real estate, people will shuck out astoundingly foolish amounts of money. Sure! But consider: 1) How do home values relate to incomes when adjusted for inflation? Go back 20, 30, 40, 50 years and compare house prices to income levels. Houses were cheap then until you look at what the typical income level was. There is an old paradigm about the amount of money spent on a house should be 2X your yearly income. Perhaps 10 years ago, it went to 2.5-3X. Now it seems to have been abandoned into whatever the maximum amount the bank will loan you. That progression indicates that a change has happened. A lot higher percentage goes to putting the roof over the head. That's "okay", just get another Credit card or two! 2) A house is one of the few investments an individual can make that can be used without selling it. If you do the home equity thing, you sort of have sold it. 3) A house is one of the few necessities an individual can buy that will almost certainly appreciate in value. Look at the everyday things you own - how many of them will be worth more in 10 years? 4) Home loan interest is a tax deduction for most people. What other debt reduces your taxes? All true, Jim. and all used to get people to become "house poor". BTW, those McMansions are becoming very, very hard to resell. Not around here! Interesting! My XYL, who works in the industry doing a lot of high-end houses around here, notes that the people who have 500K to a million and up almost always insist on building their own. If you have a million dollar property around here that you want to sell, you better be prepared to wait a while. And oddly enough, another persom might be building an almost identical 1 mil house on the lot next to you! - Mike KB3EIA - |
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#4
July 20th 05, 06:32 PM
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From: Mike Coslo on Jul 19, 8:08 pm
http://www.getboost.com/dz/sienna.htm My thoughts. First, the unit has a lot of promise. While I think I prefer separate components between the computer and the rig for flexibility, this setup might just be fun to use. It's not the first such integrated radio transceiver. The DZ Sienna "predecessor" - called the PSKUBE - no longer on the market, was even more integrated. See the assembly- instruction-theory manual available on the DZ website. A single box with an LCD screen for a Windows-like display, plug-in keyboard, obviously intended to be a "starter rig" (20 W) mainly for PSK-31. Kind of a niche market in itself. Next, I don't buy the teeny florescent screen rationale. My idea of the modern integrated rig is more along the line of looking like a laptop, with a folding large screen on top of the RF portions of the box. But that's just me. You can get those now from other folks, use a "real" laptop for the entire control of them. Otherwise the modern ready-built HF transceivers generally have the same size "teeny" displays. Interesting that they chose an LDG autotuner. This is a concept that might be expanded upon. Why is that "interesting?" SGC makes several autotuners, buildable inside or use externally. The DZ Sienna isn't the first to offer a built-in automatic antenna tuner. Don't like the computer interface screenshot. Okay, then program up an interface using the Windows format and calls. Maybe the internal operating system is as accessible as the Sienna itself? Like "addressing it on-line like it was another PC." It uses a single-board computer, PC compatible. I really hope that they do well. I do think the price point is too high. What, with your choice of three different front panel colors? :-) I would be willing to pay extra for an American made unit, but 3K for the entry level, and 6K for the works unit is pretty high. Hmmm...sounds vaguely like the Signal One and MIL-Spec market tries. Of course, if you can't afford a Rolls-Royce, there is always the Bentley... :-) Unless of course, the rig has outstanding performance. I would love to see some test results. Technically, it should have equal performance with all other HF ham transceivers in its price range. Emotionally, that's another story, and that is entirely subjective. Hoping that they can sell enough to expand the concept, because it is a good one.... Maybe, maybe not. Take a look at the predecessor, the PSKUBE. Looked like a neat idea but it was withdrawn as a product...even though it was obviously all set for kit production. On-board PC-compatible computer, built-in screen. Probably did not "look like a radio" to many potential buyers. There's a terrible conservatism to many hams who could afford such a rig. A product has to fit the market first...innovation can be introduced gradually later. The off-shore designer-manufacturers got into the American market by first entering with radios that had the same features as Heath, Hallicrafters, National, and Collins. Heath and Hallicrafters went defunct. National just kind of disappeared. Collins is still making radios but for government/commercial use, having left the ham market decades ago. The innovations in modern ready-built ham radios (PLL-DDS frequency control with memory storage, easy "split" operation, RIT (or equivalent), DSP (of many kinds), all through an internal microprocessor (which allows even more features) were done by Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom. The latter-day American saints came after them with the possible exception (maybe) of Drake. [arguments from Ten-Tec fanatics but then they always argue a lot anyway...] Incorporation of ready-built assemblies and sub-systems is not a new thing. That's been in the works here and off-shore for about four decades. Using an industry-standard single-board PC in an amateur transceiver IS a new thing, carrying on-board flexibility to uncharted new heights. Having (total?) remote, done through the net kind of operation is going to batter some of the Part 97 regulations on remote control if this had been a ready-built instead of a kit. [a small pause while Hans assembles the appropriate sub-Parts for publication here] An on-board computer - using a true ADAPTING algorithm (I've seen one such in operation) - could obviate the need for the "trained morse operator" who could "work" through the worst QRM or QRN that is in the universe. :-) Right away that makes it a no-no for the PCTA extras in here. :-) If Brian and his small DZ company succeed, they will have a niche market still in my viewpoint. Sort of like Elecraft. If there are complaints about a "kit," then look at Elecraft's "service" of having "builders" who will assemble sets for those customers that want that particular model ready-built. Assembly costs extra, of course. I'll tip my hat to Wood and the DZ Sienna just for trying. It looks like a well-engineered set and the Heathkit-flavored manual format is right on the money for Heath fans. It looks like the design is a Labor of Love for Brian Wood...a good start for a long relationship. |
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