Dee:

If you would chart developments and advancements in every technical
field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones
mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging
that statement.

A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has damaged
amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an "anti-social
bent" have been in control here far too long, calling them just
"eccentric" is far too kind.

Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be repaired
quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here with us.

Too often, tunnel vision only allows us to see that which we wish to
see, but none can deny amateur radio has been in decline for
decades--there is some reason for that.

Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so that
we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to
step into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will find
it profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur equipment in a
flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future the bands will be
so congested calls are made for the bands to be expanded to
accommodate all the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like that which CB
experienced in the 70's would be most desirable, however, I do realize
this is probably too much to even hope for.

As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in
"advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading
the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be
key in getting the numbers we need at that time.

Warmest regards,
John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dee:

Although we have differences in our thoughts and evaluation of this
whole situation, let us both hope you are wrong--dear.

We need some good news for a change! Amateur radio and a bright
future for it is bigger than you and I put together, indeed, it is
more important than all of us here.

Warmest regards,
John

"Dee

I see a fine future for amateur radio but I also see a stabilization
of numbers just as is occuring in our population growth and all the
other activities to which I belong. The news of the FCC action and
the action itself will have little to no noticeable impact. Ham
radio would continue to develop either way.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc


73 de Jim, N2EY


Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they are, we
should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element
3
over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before
their CSCEs expire.

And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code".
Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a
trend. A few months won't tell us a thing.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




I am a TechPlus who never upgraded to General, or any other class. There
are some considerations that may set me apart from the broad (no pun
intended) population of the ARS:

I am a female
I have a husband who is a General Class (i.e., not sure how many licensees
are spouses to each other)--and I could, technically, get on HF General
Class freqs any time I wanted
I enjoy simple ragchewing and emergency communications at a local level WHEN
I am even "hooked up"
I enjoy the "quiet" mode of communicating--HF makes way too much noise

There's probably some other differentiating items, and there may be no
correlation at all.

Kim W5TIT



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Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc


73 de Jim, N2EY


Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they are, we
should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element 3
over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before
their CSCEs expire.

while I hope you areright on the timeline I personaly will likely wait
till it is done, unles my partner get to to point of being rady to take
her tech test

And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code".
Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a
trend. A few months won't tell us a thing.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Kim" wrote in message
...
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc


73 de Jim, N2EY


Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they are, we
should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element
3
over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up
before
their CSCEs expire.

And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code".
Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a
trend. A few months won't tell us a thing.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




I am a TechPlus who never upgraded to General, or any other class. There
are some considerations that may set me apart from the broad (no pun
intended) population of the ARS:

I am a female
I have a husband who is a General Class (i.e., not sure how many licensees
are spouses to each other)--and I could, technically, get on HF General
Class freqs any time I wanted
I enjoy simple ragchewing and emergency communications at a local level
WHEN
I am even "hooked up"
I enjoy the "quiet" mode of communicating--HF makes way too much noise

There's probably some other differentiating items, and there may be no
correlation at all.

Kim W5TIT



Actually Kim, it supports the point of view that I've had all along. Namely
that, for the most part, those who wanted to upgrade did so despite the
Morse code and those who didn't upgrade were getting what they wanted out of
ham radio with their current license level.

Have you ever got involved with the local VHF traffic nets? This may or may
not be something that you would enjoy.

I personally enjoy HF and working DX (especially if I'm lucky enough to get
someone who wants to ragchew). My favorite band has always been 40m despite
the issue with the foreign broadcasters in our voice portion. The morning
(right around dawn) I worked New Zealand on 40m CW really started my day off
with a bang.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Kim:

I think a woman "taking a free ride" on her husbands license are
probably not a significant number to really thwart the benefits which
are possible. Let's face it, marriage too is becoming a thing of the
past, and certainly is no longer a real lifetime commitment for the
younger generations. Gay marriage is probably the final nail in that
coffin.

The younger women of today are a different breed and don't want to be
seen as "getting something for nothing." (which might imply, at least
to some, that they are less able or intelligent)

I would venture a guess that at least half of under 35 year old women
would never stand for a free ride on their husbands license--choosing
to make a point they "have what it takes." (today's women are much
more competitive)

I feel the dropping of CW will open this hobby up to these women.
Even if they are only dating a guy which is in amateur radio, it may
be enough to prompt them into studying and grabbing a license of their
own--especially if the boyfriend is smart enough to set up a
competitive spirit and invoke the challenge. grin

John

"Kim" wrote in message
...
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc


73 de Jim, N2EY


Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they
are, we
should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking
element
3
over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up
before
their CSCEs expire.

And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse
code".
Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their
is a
trend. A few months won't tell us a thing.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




I am a TechPlus who never upgraded to General, or any other class.
There
are some considerations that may set me apart from the broad (no pun
intended) population of the ARS:

I am a female
I have a husband who is a General Class (i.e., not sure how many
licensees
are spouses to each other)--and I could, technically, get on HF
General
Class freqs any time I wanted
I enjoy simple ragchewing and emergency communications at a local
level WHEN
I am even "hooked up"
I enjoy the "quiet" mode of communicating--HF makes way too much
noise

There's probably some other differentiating items, and there may be
no
correlation at all.

Kim W5TIT



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
Encryption =----

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Kim" wrote in message
...

I am a TechPlus who never upgraded to General, or any other class.
There
are some considerations that may set me apart from the broad (no pun
intended) population of the ARS:

I am a female
I have a husband who is a General Class (i.e., not sure how many
licensees
are spouses to each other)--and I could, technically, get on HF General
Class freqs any time I wanted
I enjoy simple ragchewing and emergency communications at a local level
WHEN
I am even "hooked up"
I enjoy the "quiet" mode of communicating--HF makes way too much noise

There's probably some other differentiating items, and there may be no
correlation at all.

Kim W5TIT



Actually Kim, it supports the point of view that I've had all along.
Namely
that, for the most part, those who wanted to upgrade did so despite the
Morse code and those who didn't upgrade were getting what they wanted out
of
ham radio with their current license level.

Have you ever got involved with the local VHF traffic nets? This may or
may
not be something that you would enjoy.


Absolutely. I've been Net Control, Asst Net Control and generally involved
with Traffic--back some time ago and only steadily for about six months on
the local scene. However, I served as Net Control for Navy MARS for about a
year and was a participant in Navy MARS for about 2 1/2 years. I really
enjoyed the traffic nets.

Then, while I was Hunt County ARES Emergency Coordinator, and a founder of a
local emergency service group, we had "traffic" at the beginning of every
net.


I personally enjoy HF and working DX (especially if I'm lucky enough to
get
someone who wants to ragchew). My favorite band has always been 40m
despite
the issue with the foreign broadcasters in our voice portion. The morning
(right around dawn) I worked New Zealand on 40m CW really started my day
off
with a bang.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




Well, I should clarify. I adore HF operation, contesting when I happen upon
it, and ragchewing. However, as a matter of regular operation, VHF is my
freqs of choice. But, I do really enjoy HF. When we had radios hooked up,
the HF radio was always on in the office, usually at 28.400 so we could
listen there for any signals. I think that is what burned me out on the
noise. When Cliff would turn it off, I would feel like a million pounds had
been lifted! (I also can't stand the "wind" noise in A/C and air
ventilation devices). I'd almost rather broil than have A/C on when it is
noisy, or where I can hear it running. OH, and the tone of CW sends me just
about into a spiral after about 5 minutes of it. ANY droning, including
heavy metal guitars, and I am just a basket case...LOL

Kim W5TIT



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wrote:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc

Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp, realistically,
actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would take any
other path?

This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an announcement
about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go thru the
NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll
patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of desparate
commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a done
deal.

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then
back then the bands as usual.

I could care less about any of it at this late date because none of it
has any effect at all on me. I've been allowed to beep, yak and PSK my
buns off everywhere band edge to band edge ever since I did 13 wpm fast
enough for the examiner to make me a General over a half century ago.
With an annoying side trip in 1968 to do 20 wpm to reconfirm my abilty
to beep good enough to retain my privs under that particular FCC
"restructuring" brainfart.

Game over, I'm opting out of any further participation in any of this
BS. Seeya in the pileups on 14.020. Ya dunno how to do 14.020? Good:
Less QRM for me. Eat yer heart out.


73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

In one way, I can picture it being a "sad day." One of the posts here
pointed out this possibility to me.

For decades now a few of the guys (hams) here in my local area have
terrorized CB'ers and freebanders. Invoking the FCC to send countless
notices and confiscate equip and linears on a quite frequent basis.
And, even two truck stops in the area have been favorite "hunting
grounds" for these guys.

Can you imagine the retaliation which is going to be spun against
those hams which have been so inclined? The term "repaid in spades"
occurs to me. I imagine some may forsake the hobby for other
pursuits, or move to another area!

Thank gawd I have always had enough common sense to practice the "good
neighbor policy!" grin

John

wrote in message
oups.com...
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc


73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
wrote:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc

Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp,
realistically,
actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would
take any other path?

As I often said in the past 5 years, when FCC wrote that
code testing served no regulatory purpose other than
treaty compliance, the deal was essentially done.

The amazing thing was that it's taken two years to get
this far.

This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an
announcement
about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go
thru the
NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll
patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of
desparate
commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a
done deal.

I'll comment, like always.

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this
latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual.

Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse.

Got my antenna back up last night (had to take it down Sunday for
the new siding to go on the house). 40 was full of CW signals.
Nice chat with a VE2 on 7031. Life is good.

I could care less about any of it at this late date because
none of it
has any effect at all on me. I've been allowed to beep, yak and PSK my
buns off everywhere band edge to band edge ever since I did 13 wpm fast
enough for the examiner to make me a General over a half
century ago.
With an annoying side trip in 1968 to do 20 wpm to reconfirm my abilty
to beep good enough to retain my privs under that particular FCC
"restructuring" brainfart.

Exactly.

Game over, I'm opting out of any further participation in any
of this
BS. Seeya in the pileups on 14.020. Ya dunno how to do 14.020? Good:
Less QRM for me. Eat yer heart out.

bwaahaahaa

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
wrote:

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this
latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual.

Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse.

Yep.

Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and
Restructuring...

I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and
obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those
technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact
same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't
true then.

Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur
allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The
REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So
where were all those engineering-types then?

People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't
get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue
that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the
REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the
argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and
"shoot skip", nothing more.

I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for
Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band
subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that
much.

The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the
non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of
those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only
one or two license classes.

When that is done we can remove all references to training and
technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97.
Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe
re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96?

Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so
those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can
operate legally...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ