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#22
July 21st 05, 06:58 PM
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K4YZ wrote: wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! always with the obsessive attacks steve wel you can't spoil a day like this for me 73 Steve, K4YZ |
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#23
July 21st 05, 08:12 PM
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wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY I disagree Jim. Code has been at 5 WPM for some time now. That's just about a de-facto elimination of the same as I have yet to have a person come thru my classes who could not get 5 WPM. |
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#24
July 21st 05, 09:05 PM
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wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Hello, Jim Is the glass half empty or half full? I look at it this way: we will always know where to head for an interesting chat with someone knowlegeable. We'll know where to head to avoid profanity. We'll know where to head to avoid interference and folks screaming "AUDIOOOOOOO"/ We'll head for the cw bands.  73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
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#25
July 21st 05, 09:17 PM
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From: Leo on Jul 20, 7:03 pm
wrote http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc It is sad, inasmuch as this definitely represents a dramatic change to the structure of Amateur Radio in the US - Morse has been an integral part of the hobby for as long as most anyone living can remember. At least since 1913...a mere 92 years. :-) [we await the Terrible Hue and Cry to be raised, first on QRZ.com then all over in here as the MMM* rise up in anger and dismay at the Falling of the Sky! Sound the Alarum!] Surprisingly, there is no impetus to change the technical content of the exams - I would have bet on that one! Considering a two-year period and EIGHTEEN proposals sitting around, I think that would have been out of the question in DC. The FCC noted (for WT Docket 05-235) that the VEC Question Pool Committee makes up the questions. Further, under U.S. regulations, the FCC specifies only a MINIMUM of ten times the number of required questions per class. The VEC QPC is under NO obligation to limit the Pool limit to 10. Given the electronic transfer capability of the VEC QPC Pool and the ubiquity of the modern PC and Internet, the number of questions could have been at least 100 times the minimum required number of questions for U.S. examinees. "Difficulty" is a matter for the VEC QPC, themselves made up ONLY of licensed radio amateurs. There are some good things in the NPRM as well, though - the massive proposals for upgrading hundreds of thousands of current licensees to the next higher license class did not survive. This topic seemed to polarize folks as much (or more than!) the Morse issue itself. Judging by the massive outpouring of grief/anger/dismay/ etc. on www.qrz.com this morning, the "polarization" seems very focussed on morse code testing. [31 pages of messages there by mid-morning on the 21st of July...:-) ] By the latter part of 2010, the issue will be moot on "auto-upgrades" of classes. The Technician Plus, Novice, and Advanced classes will HAVE to disappear...a result of the "Restructuring" Report and Order of late 1999 that took effect in mid-2000. By the way, as of 1200 UTC on 21 July 2005, the number of "lower-class" Technician and Technician Plus class licensees in the USA were 349,859 or 48.46% of the total individual licensees (722,023). In one year's time, the FCC granted 16,085 NEW amateur radio licenses but 19,072 licenses were expired. Net gain of -2,987 in 12 months, a trend that has existed since the peak in July 2003. However, Morse has too big a following to just disappear from the bands completely - it will be there for many years to come! Yes, and the stirring tales of daring-doo by "CW", saving lives and protecting the nation agains terrorists will always be part of the mythology! :-) Some 47 years ago the FCC "took away" the U.S. ham band called "11 meters" and reassigned it to the new-fangled Class C and D Citizens Band. Some of today's hams weren't even born yet but they are "mad as hell [about that] and can't take it anymore!" [a la the famous "Network" rant in the movie by actor Peter Finch (SK)] About the only thing "lost" was the TITLES and DISTINCTION of being part of the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society, a sort of quasi-royal status assumed by those few who were able to make it through 13 and 20 WPM. They feel they "own" the "rights" to the "titles" and those should be kept in perpetuity...naturally to show the "greatness" of these MMMs at "pioneering the airwaves." :-) [none of those hams in here were alive in those pioneer days but they apparently have laid claim to that "land," "fief," and all "titles!" :-) ] The feeling here in Canada is that we are probably weeks away from a similar announcement......one which, in all probability, will mirror the US NPRM very closely. As long as British Columbia is still the production home of "Stargate," "Stargate Atlantis," and "Battlestar Galactica," I will not comment on what Canada does or should do. :-) The U.S. NPRM has NO great changes in U.S. amateur radio regulations other than the pending removal of Test Element 1 (morse code test). That's about as simple a law change as possible. The emotional catastrophe of Title/Status/Distinction/etc. loss to the MMM is at least an order of magnitude above the largest megatonage special weapon! The "fall-out" has begun...some will not survive the "radio-ation." We'll soon see! The writing on the wall happened in Switzerland two years ago with the revision of S25 at WRC-03...with the consent and input of the IARU and a few others. The ARRL was opposed to that then...but now try to spin that they were "in support." shrug Modernization will continue despite what the "boyz in da ham hood" think... 73, Leo Best regards, * MMM = Mighty Macho Morsemen, hee-rows of the hamways. |
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#26
July 21st 05, 09:20 PM
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"Dee Flint" wrote in message ... Actually Kim, it supports the point of view that I've had all along. Namely that, for the most part, those who wanted to upgrade did so despite the Morse code and those who didn't upgrade were getting what they wanted out of ham radio with their current license level. Have you ever got involved with the local VHF traffic nets? This may or may not be something that you would enjoy. I personally enjoy HF and working DX (especially if I'm lucky enough to get someone who wants to ragchew). My favorite band has always been 40m despite the issue with the foreign broadcasters in our voice portion. The morning (right around dawn) I worked New Zealand on 40m CW really started my day off with a bang. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Hello, Dee Funny thing, that is what I used to love. Even trying out Spanish (when I could speak a bit) for a half an hour with a Portugese station (I told him I knew he spoke Portugese, but did he speak any Spanish as he knew little English - he did and we had some fun). I used to chat for hours on end with VK2NP, Norm, in Brisbane Australia via teletype (ah the sound of those old clanking machines). He didn't even know until about the fourth QSO that I was not using the tape reader. At a leisurely 60 words per minute, I had to wait for the mechanical beast to allow the key to depress and I kept it busy at full tilt (except when sending such goodies as Santa Claus etc. - the old ascii - oops baudot - 'graphics' LOL). The 100 word per minute machines in the comm center were something else. My best burst speed was around 92 words per minute and I could never have fooled anyone. Too bad so many spend hours arguing whilst there is a lot of fun to be had on the air 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
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#27
July 21st 05, 09:28 PM
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"K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ Steve, So far (cross fingers) cw is legal *anywhere* in the ham bands (other than, I believe, 60 meters) so long as one's license class permits transmitting. I have, in the past, found it an excellent way of confounding someone who jumps on me (of course, that was when all amateurs had some ability on cw - a minimum of 13 words per minute on hf in the voice bands). Funny thing how Mike, W2OY's killerwatt couldn't touch my 75 watts LOL. Even funnier was the way his blood pressure was going up whilst I continued a nice contact with Ohio despite his best efforts. Both the other guy and I could handle cw quite well. After a number of "qrq" sent back and fourth, we were humming along at a nice rate, neither pushing speed limits nor plodding along. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 words per minute and we continued for a good half hour more. Every now and then, I'd open the rx bandwidth to hear Mike screaming "take those toys down into the cw band". Sure, Mike, just don't hold your breath. snort 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
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#28
July 21st 05, 09:56 PM
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OMG:
I never thought about that, with the great influx of all these new hams firing up their keys and going CW on us, phone might be in danger!!! grin John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ Steve, So far (cross fingers) cw is legal *anywhere* in the ham bands (other than, I believe, 60 meters) so long as one's license class permits transmitting. I have, in the past, found it an excellent way of confounding someone who jumps on me (of course, that was when all amateurs had some ability on cw - a minimum of 13 words per minute on hf in the voice bands). Funny thing how Mike, W2OY's killerwatt couldn't touch my 75 watts LOL. Even funnier was the way his blood pressure was going up whilst I continued a nice contact with Ohio despite his best efforts. Both the other guy and I could handle cw quite well. After a number of "qrq" sent back and fourth, we were humming along at a nice rate, neither pushing speed limits nor plodding along. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 words per minute and we continued for a good half hour more. Every now and then, I'd open the rx bandwidth to hear Mike screaming "take those toys down into the cw band". Sure, Mike, just don't hold your breath. snort 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
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#29
July 21st 05, 10:00 PM
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From: Dee Flint on Jul 20, 9:16 pm
wrote in message roups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. As of 1200 UTC on 21 July 2005, there were 349,859 of them... That's the total of Technician and Technician Plus classes in the USA...48.46% of all individual amateur radio licensees. If they are, we should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element 3 over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before their CSCEs expire. There are a third of a million CSCEs outstanding?!? Outstanding! And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code". "Kept out of WHAT?" :-) Radio? No. Had the NO-CODE-TEST Technician class not been created 14 years ago, the present number of U.S. amateur radio licensees would have DROPPED by at least 200,000. Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a trend. A few months won't tell us a thing. WT Docket 05-235 has to be published in the Federal Register first...with at least 75 days of Comments/Replies to Comments following, then a (long?) wait for the Report and Order. A "trend?!?" The total number of U.S. amateur radio licensees has been dropping about three thousand per year since the peak of July 2003. Expirations (of all classes) has exceeded the number of NEW licensees. Novice class licensee totals have been dropping steadily for almost two decades. The total of Technician and Technician Plus classes is at 48.46% of all individual licensees and might hit 50% by the end of 2005. "Their [sic] IS a trend!" It's been there all along. New licensees are NOT attracted by the majestic nobility and sanctity of morse code as much as you'd like to think. The old ways are dying...not quickly, but inexorably. Embrace the NEW, not the old. RADIO...all of it...has been in a constant transition in the 52+ years I've been in it...and I started in it without any license, certainly not requiring any morsemanship skills. |
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#30
July 21st 05, 10:29 PM
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John Smith wrote:
Dee: If you would chart developments and advancements in every technical field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging that statement. A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has damaged amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an "anti-social bent" have been in control here far too long, calling them just "eccentric" is far too kind. Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be repaired quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here with us. Too often, tunnel vision only allows us to see that which we wish to see, but none can deny amateur radio has been in decline for decades--there is some reason for that. Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so that we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to step into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will find it profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur equipment in a flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future the bands will be so congested calls are made for the bands to be expanded to accommodate all the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like that which CB experienced in the 70's would be most desirable, however, I do realize this is probably too much to even hope for. As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in "advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be key in getting the numbers we need at that time. Warmest regards, John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Although we have differences in our thoughts and evaluation of this whole situation, let us both hope you are wrong--dear. We need some good news for a change! Amateur radio and a bright future for it is bigger than you and I put together, indeed, it is more important than all of us here. Warmest regards, John "Dee I see a fine future for amateur radio but I also see a stabilization of numbers just as is occuring in our population growth and all the other activities to which I belong. The news of the FCC action and the action itself will have little to no noticeable impact. Ham radio would continue to develop either way. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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