Yes, except for a little terrorist activity which has not proved to be
worth my worry lately--this dropping of CW seems to be the most
exciting thing in some people life... yawn

John

wrote in message
ups.com...
From: John Smith on Jul 21, 11:59 am

I agree. With the congestion on CB and there being only 40 chans
for
all the truck drivers, four wheelers, base stations and freebanders,
it is a mess.

More bandwidth has been needed for over a decade.

More than THREE decades, John. CB is 47 years old. The sudden
explosion of imported transceivers on the marketplace took
place in the early 1960s.

Most do want to chat with others in other countries, "skip" will be
the mode of the day on HF--at least I'd imagine that to be the case.

Sorry, you can't really say "skip" in here. That's a four-
letter word used by CBers, as in "shooting skip." :-)

One can still "pioneer the airwaves below 200 meters!" That's
the MYTH. Of course the commercial and government and military
people already did that early, used it, and moved on. :-)
[I was there, on it, helping to use it, 50 years ago...]

However, I have never seen a real case of where what actually
happens
is able to be "prophesized" accurately before the actual
situation--it
will be interesting to watch.

No? Oh, my, I've met dozens of "nostrahamus" predictors in
my time. The ham sky fell in 1958 when CODELESS, TESTLESS
CB happened on HF!!! The ham sky fell in 1990 when FCC 90-53
created the NO CODE TEST Technician (ugh, ptui, spit) was
to start in 1991. The ham sky fell in 1999 when the latest
"restructuring" was ordered to take place in 2001 with the
maximum rate of 5 WPM for ALL morse code tests!

The ham sky has fallen so many times that it's a wonder the
Earth hasn't turned into an ultra dense ball of neutrons. :-)

WT Docket 05-235 is going to turn out to be more of a TITLE,
RANK, PRIVILEGE bust for the ham "nobility." Oh, they will
still trumpet their high-skill morsemanship as the "best of
the best [morse] operators" and snarl at all others for being
mere "yakkers into a mike." The snarls will still be there,
frozen into rictus grins when they assume room temperature.

The FCC defines U.S. amateur radio operators as (partly)
having a "proven unique ability to enhance international
goodwill." Funny, they don't comment about their unique
ability to be as quarrelsome as possible domestically...

It's a Great Day a Dawning! Huzzah! :-)

Dee:

Your words, "... I believe that there will be a de facto
two class system."

Did I misunderstand their intent of meaning?

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...


wrote:
wrote:

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this
latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more
then back then the bands as usual.

Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse.

Yep.

Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT
and
Restructuring...

I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out
and
obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those
technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the
exact
same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it
wasn't
true then.

Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur
allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum.
The
REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations.
So
where were all those engineering-types then?

People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't
get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO
argue
that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of
the
REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the
argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and
"shoot skip", nothing more.

I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for
Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band
subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep
that
much.


I'm betting that it will go just like the NPRM is now and that is
code elimination across the board. They specifically discussed the
proposals that had that concept in it and discounted the
possibility.

The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the
non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all
of
those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have
only
one or two license classes.


You know I doubt this as those who really wanted General upgraded
anyway. Of those who haven't upgraded yet, many are relatively
inactive anyhow.

As far as two license classes go, FCC is not considering it right
now and it won't really matter what they do as I believe that there
will be a de facto two class system.

When that is done we can remove all references to training and
technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part
97.
Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe
re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96?

Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters
so
those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can
operate legally...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

As I often said in the past 5 years, when FCC wrote that
code testing served no regulatory purpose other than
treaty compliance, the deal was essentially done.

The amazing thing was that it's taken two years to get
this far.

More likely it took that long because the FCC had more
important stuff to deal with.


They didn't ban Morse Code. They just dropped the
license test for it. CW will survive anyway.

We ought to start CW training nets to get hams to
get into CW. Use the old novice subbands for it.
Sure, you'll hear lots of bad sending at first, but
people will improve over time.

When that is done we can remove all references to training and
technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97.

"Technical" is still covered in the written tests. Aside from
no more CW test, "operational" still has a few questions in the
writtens. Oh, people newly licensed will make newbie errors,
but most people are smart enough to soon spot and correct
such errors.


Remember that 14.313 was that way back in the days of 13wpm
generals... And that HF didn't go down the toilet after
Restructuring 2000 happened.

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc

Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp, realistically,
actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would take any
other path?

This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an announcement
about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go thru the
NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll
patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of desparate
commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a done
deal.

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then
back then the bands as usual.

I could care less about any of it at this late date because none of it
has any effect at all on me. I've been allowed to beep, yak and PSK my
buns off everywhere band edge to band edge ever since I did 13 wpm fast
enough for the examiner to make me a General over a half century ago.
With an annoying side trip in 1968 to do 20 wpm to reconfirm my abilty
to beep good enough to retain my privs under that particular FCC
"restructuring" brainfart.

Game over, I'm opting out of any further participation in any of this
BS. Seeya in the pileups on 14.020. Ya dunno how to do 14.020? Good:
Less QRM for me. Eat yer heart out.


73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv


Rest assured the FCC is going to do whatever is easiest for THEM.

There may be a upward surge of new "Ultra Lite Extra's" (Did I really say
that???).....and in a short time the bands will still sound deserted.

There is a lot more at work here then just dropping CW.

Check out the bands lately? Where are all those new "light" hams anyway?
Danged if I can find them.

All you that gloat over losing one of the glues that hold/held ham radio
together will rue this day. And no I'm not a stuck in the mud, cw only
operator, I just see the hand writing on the wall.

Lennie is happy now. He can sneak over to a test session and get his
General......

Dan/W4NTI

Try 30 meters, good CW band.

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
wrote:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc

Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp,
realistically,
actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would
take any other path?

As I often said in the past 5 years, when FCC wrote that
code testing served no regulatory purpose other than
treaty compliance, the deal was essentially done.

The amazing thing was that it's taken two years to get
this far.

This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an
announcement
about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go
thru the
NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll
patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of
desparate
commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a
done deal.

I'll comment, like always.

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this
latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then
back then the bands as usual.

Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse.

Got my antenna back up last night (had to take it down Sunday for
the new siding to go on the house). 40 was full of CW signals.
Nice chat with a VE2 on 7031. Life is good.

I could care less about any of it at this late date because
none of it
has any effect at all on me. I've been allowed to beep, yak and PSK my
buns off everywhere band edge to band edge ever since I did 13 wpm fast
enough for the examiner to make me a General over a half
century ago.
With an annoying side trip in 1968 to do 20 wpm to reconfirm my abilty
to beep good enough to retain my privs under that particular FCC
"restructuring" brainfart.

Exactly.

Game over, I'm opting out of any further participation in any
of this
BS. Seeya in the pileups on 14.020. Ya dunno how to do 14.020? Good:
Less QRM for me. Eat yer heart out.

bwaahaahaa

73 de Jim, N2EY

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...


wrote:
wrote:

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this
latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then
back then the bands as usual.

Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse.

Yep.

Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and
Restructuring...

I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and
obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those
technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact
same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't
true then.

Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur
allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The
REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So
where were all those engineering-types then?

People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't
get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue
that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the
REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the
argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and
"shoot skip", nothing more.

I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for
Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band
subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that
much.

The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the
non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of
those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only
one or two license classes.

When that is done we can remove all references to training and
technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97.
Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe
re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96?

Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so
those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can
operate legally...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ

May not be all that far removed from reality there Steve.

Dan/W4NTI

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...


wrote:
wrote:

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this
latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then
back then the bands as usual.

Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse.

Yep.

Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and
Restructuring...

I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and
obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those
technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact
same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't
true then.

Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur
allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The
REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So
where were all those engineering-types then?

People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't
get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue
that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the
REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the
argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and
"shoot skip", nothing more.

I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for
Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band
subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that
much.

The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the
non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of
those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only
one or two license classes.

When that is done we can remove all references to training and
technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97.
Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe
re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96?

Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so
those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can
operate legally...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ


Steve,

So far (cross fingers) cw is legal *anywhere* in the ham bands (other
than,
I believe, 60 meters) so long as one's license class permits transmitting.

I have, in the past, found it an excellent way of confounding someone who
jumps on me (of course, that was when all amateurs had some ability on
cw -
a minimum of 13 words per minute on hf in the voice bands). Funny thing
how
Mike, W2OY's killerwatt couldn't touch my 75 watts LOL. Even funnier was
the way his blood pressure was going up whilst I continued a nice contact
with Ohio despite his best efforts. Both the other guy and I could handle
cw quite well. After a number of "qrq" sent back and fourth, we were
humming along at a nice rate, neither pushing speed limits nor plodding
along. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 words per minute
and we continued for a good half hour more. Every now and then, I'd open
the rx bandwidth to hear Mike screaming "take those toys down into the cw
band". Sure, Mike, just don't hold your breath. snort



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


So that's why Mike was up on his tower.....putting up a better 3.805
antenna...hi.

Dan/W4NTI

So you are advocating the illegal jerks that got nailed (rightfully so) to
now get the freebee give away new ham ticket right? Then come onto the ham
bands and act in a same or worse manner against those that find following
the rules a good thing? Right?

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
In one way, I can picture it being a "sad day." One of the posts here
pointed out this possibility to me.

For decades now a few of the guys (hams) here in my local area have
terrorized CB'ers and freebanders. Invoking the FCC to send countless
notices and confiscate equip and linears on a quite frequent basis. And,
even two truck stops in the area have been favorite "hunting grounds" for
these guys.

Can you imagine the retaliation which is going to be spun against those
hams which have been so inclined? The term "repaid in spades" occurs to
me. I imagine some may forsake the hobby for other pursuits, or move to
another area!

Thank gawd I have always had enough common sense to practice the "good
neighbor policy!" grin

John

wrote in message
oups.com...
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc


73 de Jim, N2EY

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc


73 de Jim, N2EY


Hello, Jim


Is the glass half empty or half full?

I look at it this way: we will always know where to head for an
interesting
chat with someone knowlegeable.

We'll know where to head to avoid profanity.

We'll know where to head to avoid interference and folks screaming
"AUDIOOOOOOO"/

We'll head for the cw bands.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




I really feel sorry for the stations outside of conus. They are really
going to hate us now.

Dan/W4NTI