John Smith wrote:
Dee:

If you would chart developments and advancements in every technical
field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones
mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging
that statement.

A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has damaged
amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an "anti-social
bent" have been in control here far too long, calling them just
"eccentric" is far too kind.

Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be repaired
quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here with us.

Too often, tunnel vision only allows us to see that which we wish to
see, but none can deny amateur radio has been in decline for
decades--there is some reason for that.

Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so that
we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to
step into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will find
it profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur equipment in a
flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future the bands will be
so congested calls are made for the bands to be expanded to
accommodate all the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like that which CB
experienced in the 70's would be most desirable, however, I do realize
this is probably too much to even hope for.

As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in
"advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading
the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be
key in getting the numbers we need at that time.

Warmest regards,
John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...

Dee:

Although we have differences in our thoughts and evaluation of this
whole situation, let us both hope you are wrong--dear.

We need some good news for a change! Amateur radio and a bright
future for it is bigger than you and I put together, indeed, it is
more important than all of us here.

Warmest regards,
John

"Dee

I see a fine future for amateur radio but I also see a stabilization
of numbers just as is occuring in our population growth and all the
other activities to which I belong. The news of the FCC action and
the action itself will have little to no noticeable impact. Ham
radio would continue to develop either way.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

John Smith wrote:

Dee:

If you would chart developments and advancements in every technical
field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones
mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging
that statement.


Exactly right on point. Not since the 1950's has amateur radio had much
of an impact on the "radio art". Packet briefly did, but it was rapidly
eclipsed by technology.



A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has
damaged amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an
"anti-social bent" have been in control here far too long, calling them
just "eccentric" is far too kind.


Not CW, but a general eccentric flavor has damaged amateur radio. Since
the 1960's amateur radio has attracted the social misfits who fit in by
the virtue of having a license and their social ineptitude excused
because of the license.

Nothing wrong with a "good old boys club", it's just that it's moved
from a technical organization to a beer and belching organization with
no real roots in advancement of the art. Sitting around and talking
about scratching your testicals on 75 meter SSB has ZERO attraction to
people with half a brain, and THIS is the problem with amateur radio. It
isn't CW, it isn't lack of social skills or good hygiene, it's just that
it doesn't attract engineers and good electronics technicians because it
simply isn't challenging enough.



Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be
repaired quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here
with us.


Ain't gonna happen, I'm afraid. The bright young men are shooting 2.4
gig WiFi at each other and bypassing amateur radio entirely. It's too late.


Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so that
we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to step
into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will find it
profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur equipment in a
flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future the bands will be so
congested calls are made for the bands to be expanded to accommodate all
the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like that which CB experienced in
the 70's would be most desirable, however, I do realize this is probably
too much to even hope for.



All you're going to get are people from CB. The bright young engineers
are not going to touch amateur radio because there isn't anything here
to attract them.


As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in
"advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading
the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be
key in getting the numbers we need at that time.



It's not an issue of numbers, it's an issue of why would anyone want to
become an amateur radio operator. Really now, why would you want to do
that? To talk on repeaters? To work some guy on 20 meters? The whole
hobby is passe.

If you want to attract the bright intelligent minds, you better be
prepared to challenge them. Challenge them to let them in, challenge
them when they get here. Do you think ax.25 is going to attract people?

HA!

Jayson:

On a few points you are right on. However, try to net a high speed
data link on 2.4 GHZ to hawaii, australia, the uk--fat chance!!! (and
you might as well forget 220 MHz too--50MHz with ducting, well, maybe)

This is what HF is for, old farts got confused and though it was for
brass keys and brass balls!

John

"Jayson Davis" wrote in message
...
John Smith wrote:

Dee:

If you would chart developments and advancements in every
technical
field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones
mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging
that statement.


Exactly right on point. Not since the 1950's has amateur radio had
much of an impact on the "radio art". Packet briefly did, but it
was rapidly eclipsed by technology.



A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has
damaged amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an
"anti-social bent" have been in control here far too long, calling
them just "eccentric" is far too kind.


Not CW, but a general eccentric flavor has damaged amateur radio.
Since the 1960's amateur radio has attracted the social misfits who
fit in by the virtue of having a license and their social ineptitude
excused because of the license.

Nothing wrong with a "good old boys club", it's just that it's moved
from a technical organization to a beer and belching organization
with no real roots in advancement of the art. Sitting around and
talking about scratching your testicals on 75 meter SSB has ZERO
attraction to people with half a brain, and THIS is the problem with
amateur radio. It isn't CW, it isn't lack of social skills or good
hygiene, it's just that it doesn't attract engineers and good
electronics technicians because it simply isn't challenging enough.



Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be
repaired quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here
with us.


Ain't gonna happen, I'm afraid. The bright young men are shooting
2.4 gig WiFi at each other and bypassing amateur radio entirely.
It's too late.


Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so
that
we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to
step into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will
find it profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur
equipment in a flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future
the bands will be so congested calls are made for the bands to be
expanded to accommodate all the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like
that which CB experienced in the 70's would be most desirable,
however, I do realize this is probably too much to even hope for.



All you're going to get are people from CB. The bright young
engineers are not going to touch amateur radio because there isn't
anything here to attract them.


As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in
"advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement.
Spreading the word and helping others to study and pass the written
exam will be key in getting the numbers we need at that time.



It's not an issue of numbers, it's an issue of why would anyone want
to become an amateur radio operator. Really now, why would you want
to do that? To talk on repeaters? To work some guy on 20 meters?
The whole hobby is passe.

If you want to attract the bright intelligent minds, you better be
prepared to challenge them. Challenge them to let them in,
challenge them when they get here. Do you think ax.25 is going to
attract people?

HA!

Jayson Davis wrote:

As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in
"advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading
the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be
key in getting the numbers we need at that time.

I don't even see that as being a "happening thing", Jayson.
Amateur Radio, just like fishing, or NASCAR, or R/C models, etc etc has
always attracted a certain "crowd".

It's not an issue of numbers, it's an issue of why would anyone want to
become an amateur radio operator. Really now, why would you want to do
that? To talk on repeaters? To work some guy on 20 meters? The whole
hobby is passe.

So's dropping a line in the water and trying to hook a fish, but
millions of folks do it every year...Not because it's the only way to
feed their families, but just for fun.

Anyone can get into chat rooms or exchange e-mail with folks
almost anywhere in the world...but there will still be the thrill of
doing it with "wireless".

If you want to attract the bright intelligent minds, you better be
prepared to challenge them. Challenge them to let them in, challenge
them when they get here. Do you think ax.25 is going to attract people?

HA!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllp....Markie wil chime in here and say I
am "attacking" Lennie, but there's been a no code license for just that
very kind of experimentation for 14 years now, and Lennie and hi ilk
have been more than welcome to jump right in and develop all the new
data protocols they'd like to do.

Yet all they whine about is the code test and that 3% of the
allocations that do require a code test.

Why?

Because all THEY are interested in is playing on HF...If all those
engineering types had any interest in obtaining an Amateur Radio
license for "experimenting" purposes, it would be a done deal.

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:


Jayson Davis wrote:


As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in
"advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading
the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be
key in getting the numbers we need at that time.


I don't even see that as being a "happening thing", Jayson.
Amateur Radio, just like fishing, or NASCAR, or R/C models, etc etc has
always attracted a certain "crowd".

And a strange line of thought Jayson uses. Kind of like we're supposed
to say:

"Ham Radio - we don't suck now!"



It's not an issue of numbers, it's an issue of why would anyone want to
become an amateur radio operator. Really now, why would you want to do
that? To talk on repeaters? To work some guy on 20 meters? The whole
hobby is passe.

To Jayson:

Then why the heck do you want us to advertise that the Morse test is gone.

I wonder why so many people who hate Ham radio seem to know exactly how
Ham radio is supposed to be?


So's dropping a line in the water and trying to hook a fish, but
millions of folks do it every year...Not because it's the only way to
feed their families, but just for fun.

Anyone can get into chat rooms or exchange e-mail with folks
almost anywhere in the world...but there will still be the thrill of
doing it with "wireless".


If you want to attract the bright intelligent minds, you better be
prepared to challenge them. Challenge them to let them in, challenge
them when they get here. Do you think ax.25 is going to attract people?

To Jayson again: (Sorry Steve, I didn't see the post until now)

Question number 1 - Why do so many people seem to think that the
internet is some kind of Hi-Tech wonderland - and that Amateur Radio
darn well better emulate it?

Side note..... If you think that the Internet is at the cutting
edge.... well, we know that you aren't.

And yes, mentioning AX. 25 is telling me that. Packet radio is FAIAP
not at all about transmission of large amounts of data. It has morphed
into APRS, GPS apps, C and C and other areas which do indeed attract
bright people who want to experiment.

BTW, isn't there a slight contradiction between wanting to attract
large number of people, and wanting to attract the bright and intelligent?

I suspect it might sound snobbish, but it *is* true that 50 percent of
people are below average. Gospel truth!



Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllp....Markie wil chime in here and say I
am "attacking" Lennie, but there's been a no code license for just that
very kind of experimentation for 14 years now, and Lennie and hi ilk
have been more than welcome to jump right in and develop all the new
data protocols they'd like to do.

Yet all they whine about is the code test and that 3% of the
allocations that do require a code test.

Why?

Those type hate Hams. Maybe that isn't gospel truth, but its close enough.


Because all THEY are interested in is playing on HF...If all those
engineering types had any interest in obtaining an Amateur Radio
license for "experimenting" purposes, it would be a done deal.

Yup.

- Mike KB3EIA -

From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37

K4YZ wrote:
Jayson Davis wrote:

As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in
"advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading
the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be
key in getting the numbers we need at that time.

I don't even see that as being a "happening thing", Jayson.
Amateur Radio, just like fishing, or NASCAR, or R/C models, etc etc has
always attracted a certain "crowd".

And a strange line of thought Jayson uses. Kind of like we're supposed
to say:

"Ham Radio - we don't suck now!"

That would be a REALISTIC beginning... :-)

Oh, Michael, we've all seen the "crowd" represented by K4YZ. :-)

So, other than the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society)
thinking their sky has fallen, what would YOU really
advertise U.S. amateur radio in its "new beginning" after
WT Docket 05-235 turns into an R&O?

It's not an issue of numbers, it's an issue of why would anyone want to
become an amateur radio operator. Really now, why would you want to do
that? To talk on repeaters? To work some guy on 20 meters? The whole
hobby is passe.

To Jayson:

Then why the heck do you want us to advertise that the Morse test is gone.

Not the YOU "us," Michael. The ARRL badly needs new membership.
They've never had as many as a quarter of all U.S. amateur
radio licensees as members and are currently down around just
20% of licensees. ARRL is more business than organization and
the business side of the house has to show a profit.

I wonder why so many people who hate Ham radio seem to know exactly how
Ham radio is supposed to be?

Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.

You are sounding EXACTLY like the "superior OTs" you decry in
another message...like everyone MUST accept what YOU accept
as a definition. Tsk.

So's dropping a line in the water and trying to hook a fish, but
millions of folks do it every year...Not because it's the only way to
feed their families, but just for fun.

Anyone can get into chat rooms or exchange e-mail with folks
almost anywhere in the world...but there will still be the thrill of
doing it with "wireless".

"Thrill?!?" Has Stebie gotten an Orion and having oriongasms?

"Wireless" today refers to LANs coupled by radio, not wires.
See the acronym WLAN and what the "W" stands for.

Almost exactly 50 years ago I picked up a handset in Tokyo
and spoke to my counterpart in San Francisco, all a part of
the Army network. First time I'd "done DX" on HF. WAs
there supposed to be a "thrill" associated with using that
24/7 communications circuit? :-) Perhaps novel is the word,
but I already knew the circuit was there 24/7 as were all the
other radio circuits.

I've used radio to communicate from land, sea, and air. Not
a magic thing. If there be "magic" then it was listening to
Edward R. Murrow reporting live from London in 1940 in the
midst of the London Bombing. "Magic" is a subjective thing.

Radio waves and electrons do NOT, nor ever did operate
according to human emotional dictates. Try to remember that.

If you want to attract the bright intelligent minds, you better be
prepared to challenge them. Challenge them to let them in, challenge
them when they get here. Do you think ax.25 is going to attract people?

To Jayson again: (Sorry Steve, I didn't see the post until now)

Question number 1 - Why do so many people seem to think that the
internet is some kind of Hi-Tech wonderland - and that Amateur Radio
darn well better emulate it?

Alternate Question number 1: Why are you getting defensive?

Side note..... If you think that the Internet is at the cutting
edge.... well, we know that you aren't.

And yes, mentioning AX. 25 is telling me that. Packet radio is FAIAP
not at all about transmission of large amounts of data. It has morphed
into APRS, GPS apps, C and C and other areas which do indeed attract
bright people who want to experiment.

Aren't you conflicting with yourself on that?

"Bright people wanting to experiment" aren't going to fall in love
with a radio service demanding all below-30-MHz-privileged
individuals demonstrate telegraphy skills...especially when
that skill goes back 161 years! :-)

BTW, isn't there a slight contradiction between wanting to attract
large number of people, and wanting to attract the bright and intelligent?

How does a requirement of knowing 161-year-old morsemanship
skill attract the "bright and intelligent?" :-)

What the six-tiered-class system of old U.S. amateur radio
licensing did was attract some people who NEEDED to climb
ladders of accomplishment through the classes to get to the
top...and then proclaim their "superiority in radio!" :-)


Yet all they whine about is the code test and that 3% of the
allocations that do require a code test.

Why?

Those type hate Hams. Maybe that isn't gospel truth, but its close enough.

Poor babies...feeling "hated" are you both?

Feeling "hated" because so few agree with your self-proclaimed
"definitions" of What It Is All About?

Yes, it's all a big conspiracy. All those who disagree with you
two HATE YOU! Not only that, THEY HATE HAM RADIO...because you
two define yourself as "ham radio!" [you two have the conspiracy
thing all in a row, lined up...in your minds]

Because all THEY are interested in is playing on HF...If all those
engineering types had any interest in obtaining an Amateur Radio
license for "experimenting" purposes, it would be a done deal.

Yup.

Tsk. How little you two know of REAL engineering and
"experimentation." :-)

You two sound like an anvil chorus playing a Newington stage.
SRO you ain't.

Have fun in the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society). [why
are you here instead of playing with your HF radios?]

bit bit

wrote:
From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37


K4YZ wrote:

Jayson Davis wrote:


As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in
"advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading
the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be
key in getting the numbers we need at that time.

I don't even see that as being a "happening thing", Jayson.
Amateur Radio, just like fishing, or NASCAR, or R/C models, etc etc has
always attracted a certain "crowd".

And a strange line of thought Jayson uses. Kind of like we're supposed
to say:

"Ham Radio - we don't suck now!"


That would be a REALISTIC beginning... :-)

Oh, Michael, we've all seen the "crowd" represented by K4YZ. :-)


Steve represents mostly himself. I've seen a lot of people who
represent a lot of things.

So, other than the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society)
thinking their sky has fallen, what would YOU really
advertise U.S. amateur radio in its "new beginning" after
WT Docket 05-235 turns into an R&O?


It's not an issue of numbers, it's an issue of why would anyone want to
become an amateur radio operator. Really now, why would you want to do
that? To talk on repeaters? To work some guy on 20 meters? The whole
hobby is passe.

To Jayson:

Then why the heck do you want us to advertise that the Morse test is gone.


Not the YOU "us," Michael. The ARRL badly needs new membership.
They've never had as many as a quarter of all U.S. amateur
radio licensees as members and are currently down around just
20% of licensees.

ARR?

ARRL is more business than organization and
the business side of the house has to show a profit.


I wonder why so many people who hate Ham radio seem to know exactly how
Ham radio is supposed to be?


Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.

Insecure? So are the others who *know* how it is to be defined also
insecure?

You are sounding EXACTLY like the "superior OTs" you decry in
another message...like everyone MUST accept what YOU accept
as a definition. Tsk.

Tsk indeed. My question is a simple one. Its a rough equivalent of the
US basing our economic policy on what a group of olde tyme Russian
communists think it should be. They didn't like us much at all. I bet
they had some "good ideas" on how we should run things though...


So's dropping a line in the water and trying to hook a fish, but
millions of folks do it every year...Not because it's the only way to
feed their families, but just for fun.

Anyone can get into chat rooms or exchange e-mail with folks
almost anywhere in the world...but there will still be the thrill of
doing it with "wireless".


"Thrill?!?" Has Stebie gotten an Orion and having oriongasms?

"Wireless" today refers to LANs coupled by radio, not wires.
See the acronym WLAN and what the "W" stands for.

Almost exactly 50 years ago I picked up a handset in Tokyo
and spoke to my counterpart in San Francisco, all a part of
the Army network. First time I'd "done DX" on HF. WAs
there supposed to be a "thrill" associated with using that
24/7 communications circuit? :-) Perhaps novel is the word,
but I already knew the circuit was there 24/7 as were all the
other radio circuits.

I've used radio to communicate from land, sea, and air. Not
a magic thing. If there be "magic" then it was listening to
Edward R. Murrow reporting live from London in 1940 in the
midst of the London Bombing. "Magic" is a subjective thing.

Radio waves and electrons do NOT, nor ever did operate
according to human emotional dictates. Try to remember that.


If you want to attract the bright intelligent minds, you better be
prepared to challenge them. Challenge them to let them in, challenge
them when they get here. Do you think ax.25 is going to attract people?

To Jayson again: (Sorry Steve, I didn't see the post until now)

Question number 1 - Why do so many people seem to think that the
internet is some kind of Hi-Tech wonderland - and that Amateur Radio
darn well better emulate it?


Alternate Question number 1: Why are you getting defensive?


Side note..... If you think that the Internet is at the cutting
edge.... well, we know that you aren't.

And yes, mentioning AX. 25 is telling me that. Packet radio is FAIAP
not at all about transmission of large amounts of data. It has morphed
into APRS, GPS apps, C and C and other areas which do indeed attract
bright people who want to experiment.


Aren't you conflicting with yourself on that?

"Bright people wanting to experiment" aren't going to fall in love
with a radio service demanding all below-30-MHz-privileged
individuals demonstrate telegraphy skills...especially when
that skill goes back 161 years! :-)

Lots of bright students don't want to learn anything that they don't
think is relevant.

BTW, isn't there a slight contradiction between wanting to attract
large number of people, and wanting to attract the bright and intelligent?


How does a requirement of knowing 161-year-old morsemanship
skill attract the "bright and intelligent?" :-)

non sequitur. I wasn't writing of Morse code.

What the six-tiered-class system of old U.S. amateur radio
licensing did was attract some people who NEEDED to climb
ladders of accomplishment through the classes to get to the
top...and then proclaim their "superiority in radio!" :-)



Yet all they whine about is the code test and that 3% of the
allocations that do require a code test.

Why?

Those type hate Hams. Maybe that isn't gospel truth, but its close enough.


Poor babies...feeling "hated" are you both?

Everyone is hated by someone. If a person allows themselves to be
bothered by it, they are a poor baby indeed.

Feeling "hated" because so few agree with your self-proclaimed
"definitions" of What It Is All About?

If 50 million people believe a foolish thing is true, it remains a
foolish thing.

Yes, it's all a big conspiracy. All those who disagree with you
two HATE YOU! Not only that, THEY HATE HAM RADIO...because you
two define yourself as "ham radio!" [you two have the conspiracy
thing all in a row, lined up...in your minds]

Easy there, don't get the B.P. up!


Because all THEY are interested in is playing on HF...If all those
engineering types had any interest in obtaining an Amateur Radio
license for "experimenting" purposes, it would be a done deal.

Yup.


Tsk. How little you two know of REAL engineering and
"experimentation." :-)

So what you are saying is that those who do know about REAL engineering
and "experimentation" won't do it unless only everything is to their
exact liking? Otherwise they will simply wait until everything is to
their exact liking?

You two sound like an anvil chorus playing a Newington stage.
SRO you ain't.

Have fun in the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society). [why
are you here instead of playing with your HF radios?]

I am here *while* I'm playing with my HF radio.

- Mike KB3EIA -

From: Mike Coslo on Jul 22, 4:01 pm

wrote:
From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37
K4YZ wrote:
Jayson Davis wrote:


And a strange line of thought Jayson uses. Kind of like we're supposed
to say:

"Ham Radio - we don't suck now!"

That would be a REALISTIC beginning... :-)

Oh, Michael, we've all seen the "crowd" represented by K4YZ. :-)

Steve represents mostly himself. I've seen a lot of people who
represent a lot of things.

Ahhhh...but to merely disagree with K4YZ is to HATE HAM RADIO!

Ergo, he IS ham radio! :-)


To Jayson:

Then why the heck do you want us to advertise that the Morse test is gone.

Not the YOU "us," Michael. The ARRL badly needs new membership.
They've never had as many as a quarter of all U.S. amateur
radio licensees as members and are currently down around just
20% of licensees.

ARR?

I wrote "ARRL" sweetums...and it comes back as "ARRL."


ARRL is more business than organization and
the business side of the house has to show a profit.

I wonder why so many people who hate Ham radio seem to know exactly how
Ham radio is supposed to be?

Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.

Insecure? So are the others who *know* how it is to be defined also
insecure?

Tsk. Don't try that ploy. THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO
IN THE UNITED STATES. Period. They grant the licenses for
same.

Others merely INTERPRET what THEY THINK it is about.


You are sounding EXACTLY like the "superior OTs" you decry in
another message...like everyone MUST accept what YOU accept
as a definition. Tsk.

Tsk indeed. My question is a simple one. Its a rough equivalent of the
US basing our economic policy on what a group of olde tyme Russian
communists think it should be. They didn't like us much at all. I bet
they had some "good ideas" on how we should run things though...

"Russian communists" have NOTHING to do with this NPRM.

Try to stay focussed.


"Bright people wanting to experiment" aren't going to fall in love
with a radio service demanding all below-30-MHz-privileged
individuals demonstrate telegraphy skills...especially when
that skill goes back 161 years! :-)

Lots of bright students don't want to learn anything that they don't
think is relevant.

Har! That's one of the WEAKEST arguments mumbled by so many.

The FCC is NOT an academic institution and licensees are NOT
"students"...NOT even prospective licensees going for a test.

Actually, that "argument" is total bull**** OUT of the academic
arena. ALL the OTHER radio services (except maritime radio on
the Great Lakes) have GIVEN UP on morse code for communications.
It simply hasn't proven to be "better" than other modes, takes
longer, and no longer "gets through" better.

All you are doing with that "argument" is really enforcing a
sort of tribal myth, aka a "hazing" ritual. Note: The FCC
isn't a fraternity house either.


BTW, isn't there a slight contradiction between wanting to attract
large number of people, and wanting to attract the bright and intelligent?

How does a requirement of knowing 161-year-old morsemanship
skill attract the "bright and intelligent?" :-)

non sequitur. I wasn't writing of Morse code.

Hello? See that Subject Line up on the Header? This whole thread
is about the NPRM in WT Docket 05-235...which is about DROPPING
the MORSE CODE TEST.

I really do NOT know what YOU are writing about...some of the time.


Yet all they whine about is the code test and that 3% of the
allocations that do require a code test.

Why?

Those type hate Hams. Maybe that isn't gospel truth, but its close enough.

Poor babies...feeling "hated" are you both?

Everyone is hated by someone. If a person allows themselves to be
bothered by it, they are a poor baby indeed.

No, sweetums, YOU got the non-sequitur. Note what I said about
K4YZ: Anyone simply disagreeing with him is ACCUSED to be
HATING HAM RADIO! Search all you want through Google and you
will find him using that "phrase of hate." Do YOU want to be
like him?

Feeling "hated" because so few agree with your self-proclaimed
"definitions" of What It Is All About?

If 50 million people believe a foolish thing is true, it remains a
foolish thing.

"50 million people in WHAT?" Where are you dreaming today?

Hello? Concentrate on the thread subject.


Yes, it's all a big conspiracy. All those who disagree with you
two HATE YOU! Not only that, THEY HATE HAM RADIO...because you
two define yourself as "ham radio!" [you two have the conspiracy
thing all in a row, lined up...in your minds]

Easy there, don't get the B.P. up!

Are you now a "nurse?" My "beep" is as close to 120 over 80 as an
adult male can get.

Tsk, Michael, your "visual hearing" is suffering from "visual
tinnitus" also. Or its your ego getting in the way of logical
objectivity. Try to understand that YOU do NOT define U.S.
amateur radio...the FCC does. Just because others don't accept
your interpretation does NOT mean they "hate ham radio."


Tsk. How little you two know of REAL engineering and
"experimentation." :-)

So what you are saying is that those who do know about REAL engineering
and "experimentation" won't do it unless only everything is to their
exact liking? Otherwise they will simply wait until everything is to
their exact liking?

No, I'm just saying you two don't know dink about REAL
engineering...or experimentation. :-)

You both like to posture as if you do, but neither does. :-)

Have fun in the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society). [why
are you here instead of playing with your HF radios?]

I am here *while* I'm playing with my HF radio.

BS. At a little after 1:30 on a Friday afternoon you should
be WORKING at your place of employment. You only work 4 days
a week? Tsk, NOT the Capitalist Way!

At the close of FCC business in DC on 22 Jul 05, the Comments
on WT Docket 05-235 are running about 2:1 in favor of dropping
the code test. [just a little reminder] Stay "tuned." On your
"HF radio" or your computer. [don't get them mixed up]

bit bit

K4YZ wrote:


Because all THEY are interested in is playing on HF...If all those
engineering types had any interest in obtaining an Amateur Radio
license for "experimenting" purposes, it would be a done deal.

Rather a sad sign of our times, Steve. We live in an era in which
"things" are so simple. NeoCons can attribute ALL problems to the
mythical "liberal", who despite being almost nonexistant today, is still
somehow responsible for all the ills of society.

In the same way, we have a lot of people who are willing to attest
every problem, real or imagined, to that dreaded Element 1 test. It is
responsible for the "declining number of Hams", etc etc, etc.

They will get the chance to put their theory to the test. They will
also find out they are wrong.


By the way, has no one else noticed that the drop off in numbers is
primarily Technicians who were not code tested?

Kinda puts the lie to that theory right away doesn't it?

There was not that much effort, and those who were not all that
interested got their license. Ten years later, they allowed the license
to lapse.

- Mike KB3EIA -

From: Michael Coslo on Jul 22, 3:06 pm


K4YZ wrote:
Because all THEY are interested in is playing on HF...If all those
engineering types had any interest in obtaining an Amateur Radio
license for "experimenting" purposes, it would be a done deal.

Rather a sad sign of our times, Steve. We live in an era in which
"things" are so simple. NeoCons can attribute ALL problems to the
mythical "liberal", who despite being almost nonexistant today, is still
somehow responsible for all the ills of society.

Poor babies. Suffering the cynicsm and angst of the middle-aged
are you? :-)

In the same way, we have a lot of people who are willing to attest
every problem, real or imagined, to that dreaded Element 1 test. It is
responsible for the "declining number of Hams", etc etc, etc.

You two aren't cut out to be forest rangers...you two are unable
to see the forest for the trees... :-)

Had you bothered to look (outside of your respective insides),
you would have seen an INCREASE in amateur radio licenses in
the USA between the mid-2000 restructuring change and mid-2003.
A three-year period of growth in numbers.

Unfortunately, since then there has been a DECREASE in numbers
over the last two years. Steady - but small - decrease. That
is borne out by the delta between NEW licensees and EXPIRED
licenses. About 3,623 in one year's time from the 21 Jul 05
numbers on www.hamdata.com.


They will get the chance to put their theory to the test. They will
also find out they are wrong.

Love those ABSOLUTE predictions! So...well..."predictable!" :-)

By the way, has no one else noticed that the drop off in numbers is
primarily Technicians who were not code tested?

Really? Who wrote that...besides an obvious PCTA, that is...?

Joe Speroni said that about 5 years ago. He tried to "prove"
it with some number juggling but only made headway with his
fellow PCTAs.

Kinda puts the lie to that theory right away doesn't it?

Kinda puts your statement into a POS without some proof...:-)

There was not that much effort, and those who were not all that
interested got their license. Ten years later, they allowed the license
to lapse.

Sunnuvagun! All those no-code-test Techs being "quitters?"

NOBODY else left the U.S. ARS? :-)

Novice class has been dropping steadily for over five years.
They were NEVER "no-code-test" and once heralded as the
"entry point" into amateur radio, years ago. "Bunch of
quitters," right? :-)

Sweetums, go look at the present-day numbers. Technician
class now (as of 21 Jul 05) has 40.81% of all individual
licensees. That's over twice as many General class
licensees (only 20.33%). Together with Technician Plus,
they make up 48.46% of all individual licensees.

The no-code-test Technician class did not exist in 1990.
Since the inception of that class in 1991, those licensees
have ADDED about 200 THOUSAND hams to the U.S. numbers.
Without them the U.S. amateur radio "community" would have
DECREASED markedly over the last 14 years...like DROPPING
a whopping 27% compared to today's total individual licenses.

But, you don't want to see reality, do you? The fantasies
are much more appealing and "it's always someone else's
fault," isn't it?

bit bit