Leo wrote:
On 25 Jul 2005 08:59:17 -0700, wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: Mike Coslo on Jul 22, 4:01 pm
wrote:
From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37
Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.
Insecure? So are the others who *know* how it is to be defined also
insecure?

Tsk. Don't try that ploy. THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO
IN THE UNITED STATES. Period.

You folks all missed an important point.

We are told in no uncertain terms that

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

That is true.

It's true that we've been told

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

But that statement (taken as a whole) may not be true.

The definition and regulatory package ensures that
folks who participate in the hobby do not interfere with other users
of the spectrum (or each other), or utilize it for purposes that it is
not intended to be used for (such as for business purposes).

OK

But the same nonamateur also tells us that amateur radio

"is a HOBBY".

Yet the word "HOBBY" or "hobby" does not appear anywhere in Part 97.
The FCC
doesn't use that word at all in connection with the definition of
the Amateur Radio Service.

So the FCC, who define amateur radio in the United States, don't use
the
word "hobby" in their definition. Yet we are told that amateur radio
*is* a hobby.

Do you see the contradiction?

Looks like someone doesn't know what he's talking about.....

Must be a common mistake - looks like the ARRL missed that one
too....quote:

"Here's your invitation to a friendly, high-tech hobby that's got
something fun for everyone! You can become an Amateur Radio
operator....."

http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html

Hmmm - you'd think they'd know what it is - wouldn't you?

Sure - which means that one of the statements must not be true.

Note that ARRL does not state:

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

The contradiction comes from the idea that the FCC and *only*
the FCC defines amateur radio in the USA - which is what the
"Period" means.

snip

To put it another way: "Objective reality doesn't care what you
believe"

That's for sure!

Yep.

Which is to say that, for some, Amateur Radio is a hobby. For others,
it's much more. For the FCC, it's a licensed radio service that is
regulated by Part 97.

In fact, Amateur Radio is all of those things and much more.


73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
Leo wrote:

On 25 Jul 2005 08:59:17 -0700, wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

K4YZ wrote:

wrote:

From: Mike Coslo on Jul 22, 4:01 pm

wrote:

From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37
Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.

Insecure? So are the others who *know* how it is to be defined also
insecure?

Tsk. Don't try that ploy. THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO
IN THE UNITED STATES. Period.

You folks all missed an important point.

We are told in no uncertain terms that

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

That is true.


It's true that we've been told

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

But that statement (taken as a whole) may not be true.

It is an ambiguous statement though. It is true enough. But does it
mean that the FCC defines Amateur radio without input from amateurs or
anyone else?

No. The FCC defines it, and in taking opinion from Hams and others,
they will obviously disappoint some people.

I have no problem with the statement. The presentation of the statement
was intended to inflame though....period...

And it worked.

The definition and regulatory package ensures that
folks who participate in the hobby do not interfere with other users
of the spectrum (or each other), or utilize it for purposes that it is
not intended to be used for (such as for business purposes).


OK


But the same nonamateur also tells us that amateur radio

"is a HOBBY".

Yet the word "HOBBY" or "hobby" does not appear anywhere in Part 97.
The FCC
doesn't use that word at all in connection with the definition of
the Amateur Radio Service.

So the FCC, who define amateur radio in the United States, don't use
the
word "hobby" in their definition. Yet we are told that amateur radio
*is* a hobby.

Do you see the contradiction?

Looks like someone doesn't know what he's talking about.....

Must be a common mistake - looks like the ARRL missed that one
too....quote:

"Here's your invitation to a friendly, high-tech hobby that's got
something fun for everyone! You can become an Amateur Radio
operator....."

http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html

Hmmm - you'd think they'd know what it is - wouldn't you?

Sure - which means that one of the statements must not be true.

So it's a hobby. So what? It *is* a service too. Lets face it - if a
person makes the argument that it is a hobby because the ARRL says so on
a web page, they must concede that it is also a service, unless they are
going to declare the *actual* name of the FCC calls the ARS to be less
accurate than what ARRL types on a web page. To do otherwise is to
invite looking foolish. Period

In short, perhaps the FCC declares the Amateur Radio Service to be a
service..... Period???

Or maybe they were just like saying?


Note that ARRL does not state:

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

Why should they. Hardly polite talk! Period

The contradiction comes from the idea that the FCC and *only*
the FCC defines amateur radio in the USA - which is what the
"Period" means.

Period

snip

To put it another way: "Objective reality doesn't care what you
believe"

That's for sure!


Yep.

Period

Which is to say that, for some, Amateur Radio is a hobby. For others,
it's much more. For the FCC, it's a licensed radio service that is
regulated by Part 97.

The FCC says so. Period

In fact, Amateur Radio is all of those things and much more.

Period....


73 de Jim, N2EY

Point of grammar, Jim. Is there a period after period? Does the period
suffice, or is it redundantly periodic?


- Mike KB3EIA -

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:25:58 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:

wrote:
Leo wrote:

On 25 Jul 2005 08:59:17 -0700, wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

K4YZ wrote:

wrote:

From: Mike Coslo on Jul 22, 4:01 pm

wrote:

From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37
Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.

Insecure? So are the others who *know* how it is to be defined also
insecure?

Tsk. Don't try that ploy. THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO
IN THE UNITED STATES. Period.

You folks all missed an important point.

We are told in no uncertain terms that

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

That is true.


It's true that we've been told

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

But that statement (taken as a whole) may not be true.

It is an ambiguous statement though. It is true enough. But does it
mean that the FCC defines Amateur radio without input from amateurs or
anyone else?

Based on the recent NPRM, it sure does appear that they do!


No. The FCC defines it, and in taking opinion from Hams and others,
they will obviously disappoint some people.

I have no problem with the statement. The presentation of the statement
was intended to inflame though....period...

And it worked.

It always does!


The definition and regulatory package ensures that
folks who participate in the hobby do not interfere with other users
of the spectrum (or each other), or utilize it for purposes that it is
not intended to be used for (such as for business purposes).


OK


But the same nonamateur also tells us that amateur radio

"is a HOBBY".

Yet the word "HOBBY" or "hobby" does not appear anywhere in Part 97.
The FCC
doesn't use that word at all in connection with the definition of
the Amateur Radio Service.

So the FCC, who define amateur radio in the United States, don't use
the
word "hobby" in their definition. Yet we are told that amateur radio
*is* a hobby.

Do you see the contradiction?

Looks like someone doesn't know what he's talking about.....

Must be a common mistake - looks like the ARRL missed that one
too....quote:

"Here's your invitation to a friendly, high-tech hobby that's got
something fun for everyone! You can become an Amateur Radio
operator....."

http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html

Hmmm - you'd think they'd know what it is - wouldn't you?

Sure - which means that one of the statements must not be true.

So it's a hobby. So what? It *is* a service too. Lets face it - if a
person makes the argument that it is a hobby because the ARRL says so on
a web page, they must concede that it is also a service, unless they are
going to declare the *actual* name of the FCC calls the ARS to be less
accurate than what ARRL types on a web page. To do otherwise is to
invite looking foolish. Period

In short, perhaps the FCC declares the Amateur Radio Service to be a
service..... Period???

A service, yes - in the sense that it is a service provided *to* the
users, not a service provided *by* the users.....CB and GMRS are also
defined as services.


Or maybe they were just like saying?


Note that ARRL does not state:

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

In the sense that, as the regulatory agency whose mandate it is to
define into law the definition and scope of the hobby - they do!

Period.


Why should they. Hardly polite talk! Period

The contradiction comes from the idea that the FCC and *only*
the FCC defines amateur radio in the USA - which is what the
"Period" means.

Period

snip

To put it another way: "Objective reality doesn't care what you
believe"

That's for sure!


Yep.

Period

Which is to say that, for some, Amateur Radio is a hobby. For others,
it's much more. For the FCC, it's a licensed radio service that is
regulated by Part 97.

The FCC says so. Period

In fact, Amateur Radio is all of those things and much more.

Period....


73 de Jim, N2EY

Point of grammar, Jim. Is there a period after period? Does the period
suffice, or is it redundantly periodic?

There is no period following the third period



- Mike KB3EIA -

73, Leo

Leo wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:25:58 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:


wrote:

Leo wrote:


On 25 Jul 2005 08:59:17 -0700, wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:


K4YZ wrote:


wrote:


From: Mike Coslo on Jul 22, 4:01 pm


wrote:


From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37
Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.

Insecure? So are the others who *know* how it is to be defined also
insecure?

Tsk. Don't try that ploy. THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO
IN THE UNITED STATES. Period.

You folks all missed an important point.

We are told in no uncertain terms that

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

That is true.


It's true that we've been told

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

But that statement (taken as a whole) may not be true.

It is an ambiguous statement though. It is true enough. But does it
mean that the FCC defines Amateur radio without input from amateurs or
anyone else?


Based on the recent NPRM, it sure does appear that they do!

One of the things that happens in any organization from time to time,
is that despite apparent majority opinion, a decision is made that is
not majority opinion. Sometimes it is because of the organizations
rules, or what the organization is tasked to do.

The ARS isn't a democracy.

Which brings up an interesting paradox. In a pure democracy, the votors
can vote to eliminate the democracy, and install a dictatorship, whic
can then ignore them and set up a democracy that they can vote to
dissolve, and on and on....... hehe


No. The FCC defines it, and in taking opinion from Hams and others,
they will obviously disappoint some people.

I have no problem with the statement. The presentation of the statement
was intended to inflame though....period...

And it worked.


It always does!


The definition and regulatory package ensures that
folks who participate in the hobby do not interfere with other users
of the spectrum (or each other), or utilize it for purposes that it is
not intended to be used for (such as for business purposes).


OK



But the same nonamateur also tells us that amateur radio

"is a HOBBY".

Yet the word "HOBBY" or "hobby" does not appear anywhere in Part 97.
The FCC
doesn't use that word at all in connection with the definition of
the Amateur Radio Service.

So the FCC, who define amateur radio in the United States, don't use
the
word "hobby" in their definition. Yet we are told that amateur radio
*is* a hobby.

Do you see the contradiction?

Looks like someone doesn't know what he's talking about.....

Must be a common mistake - looks like the ARRL missed that one
too....quote:

"Here's your invitation to a friendly, high-tech hobby that's got
something fun for everyone! You can become an Amateur Radio
operator....."

http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html

Hmmm - you'd think they'd know what it is - wouldn't you?


Sure - which means that one of the statements must not be true.

So it's a hobby. So what? It *is* a service too. Lets face it - if a
person makes the argument that it is a hobby because the ARRL says so on
a web page, they must concede that it is also a service, unless they are
going to declare the *actual* name of the FCC calls the ARS to be less
accurate than what ARRL types on a web page. To do otherwise is to
invite looking foolish. Period

In short, perhaps the FCC declares the Amateur Radio Service to be a
service..... Period???


A service, yes - in the sense that it is a service provided *to* the
users, not a service provided *by* the users.....CB and GMRS are also
defined as services.


Or maybe they were just like saying?



Note that ARRL does not state:

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."


In the sense that, as the regulatory agency whose mandate it is to
define into law the definition and scope of the hobby - they do!

Period.


Why should they. Hardly polite talk! Period


The contradiction comes from the idea that the FCC and *only*
the FCC defines amateur radio in the USA - which is what the
"Period" means.

Period


snip

To put it another way: "Objective reality doesn't care what you
believe"

That's for sure!


Yep.

Period


Which is to say that, for some, Amateur Radio is a hobby. For others,
it's much more. For the FCC, it's a licensed radio service that is
regulated by Part 97.

The FCC says so. Period


In fact, Amateur Radio is all of those things and much more.

Period....


73 de Jim, N2EY

Point of grammar, Jim. Is there a period after period? Does the period
suffice, or is it redundantly periodic?


There is no period following the third period


hehe.

- Mike KB3EIA -

From: Leo on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:29:28 -0400


On 25 Jul 2005 08:59:17 -0700, wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: Mike Coslo on Jul 22, 4:01 pm
wrote:
From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37

Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.

Insecure? So are the others who *know* how it is to be defined also
insecure?

Tsk. Don't try that ploy. THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO
IN THE UNITED STATES. Period.

You folks all missed an important point.

We are told in no uncertain terms that

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

That is true. The definition and regulatory package ensures that
folks who participate in the hobby do not interfere with other users
of the spectrum (or each other), or utilize it for purposes that it is
not intended to be used for (such as for business purposes).

Not for "pecuniary reasons" is how Part 97 got the title of
AMATEUR radio.

Pardon me while I interject some OBJECTIVE REALITY to this
most subjective fantasy thing.


But the same nonamateur also tells us that amateur radio

"is a HOBBY".

Yet the word "HOBBY" or "hobby" does not appear anywhere in Part 97.
The FCC
doesn't use that word at all in connection with the definition of
the Amateur Radio Service.

So the FCC, who define amateur radio in the United States, don't use
the
word "hobby" in their definition. Yet we are told that amateur radio
*is* a
hobby.

Do you see the contradiction?

Jimmie's contradictions are coming every day now...he must
be about to give birth to a new Flame War?

Looks like someone doesn't know what he's talking about.....

Must be a common mistake - looks like the ARRL missed that one
too....quote:

"Here's your invitation to a friendly, high-tech hobby that's got
something fun for everyone! You can become an Amateur Radio
operator....."

http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html

Hmmm - you'd think they'd know what it is - wouldn't you?

BTW, Part 97 does NOT mention "ham" radio at all...none
of the U.S. regulations refer to "ham" in any way. :-)


To put it another way: "Objective reality doesn't care what you
believe"

That's for sure!

Subjective fantasy beats objective reality every time...in here.

dit dah

Len wrote:

"Not for "pecuniary reasons" is how Part 97 got the title of AMATEUR radio."

Good point, I have noticed some "professional amateurs" about. Couple of
"professional idiots" too (deep uncaring concern for politics, maybe damn
GREEKS! , never paid attention to if they happened to be hams or not...

John

wrote in message
ups.com...
From: Leo on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:29:28 -0400


On 25 Jul 2005 08:59:17 -0700, wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: Mike Coslo on Jul 22, 4:01 pm
wrote:
From: Michael Coslo on Fri 22 Jul 2005 13:37

Why are you sounding insecure? The FCC defines U.S. amateur
radio. You don't define U.S. amateur radio.

Insecure? So are the others who *know* how it is to be defined also
insecure?

Tsk. Don't try that ploy. THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO
IN THE UNITED STATES. Period.

You folks all missed an important point.

We are told in no uncertain terms that

"THE FCC DEFINES AMATEUR RADIO IN THE UNITED STATES. Period."

That is true. The definition and regulatory package ensures that
folks who participate in the hobby do not interfere with other users
of the spectrum (or each other), or utilize it for purposes that it is
not intended to be used for (such as for business purposes).

Not for "pecuniary reasons" is how Part 97 got the title of
AMATEUR radio.

Pardon me while I interject some OBJECTIVE REALITY to this
most subjective fantasy thing.


But the same nonamateur also tells us that amateur radio

"is a HOBBY".

Yet the word "HOBBY" or "hobby" does not appear anywhere in Part 97.
The FCC
doesn't use that word at all in connection with the definition of
the Amateur Radio Service.

So the FCC, who define amateur radio in the United States, don't use
the
word "hobby" in their definition. Yet we are told that amateur radio
*is* a
hobby.

Do you see the contradiction?

Jimmie's contradictions are coming every day now...he must
be about to give birth to a new Flame War?

Looks like someone doesn't know what he's talking about.....

Must be a common mistake - looks like the ARRL missed that one
too....quote:

"Here's your invitation to a friendly, high-tech hobby that's got
something fun for everyone! You can become an Amateur Radio
operator....."

http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html

Hmmm - you'd think they'd know what it is - wouldn't you?

BTW, Part 97 does NOT mention "ham" radio at all...none
of the U.S. regulations refer to "ham" in any way. :-)


To put it another way: "Objective reality doesn't care what you
believe"

That's for sure!

Subjective fantasy beats objective reality every time...in here.

dit dah

wrote

none of the U.S. regulations refer to "ham" in any way.

Sure they do.... the USDA regulations.

KXHB:

Only a swine would enjoy that joke!!!!
tongue-in-cheek

John

"KXHB" wrote in message
nk.net...

wrote

none of the U.S. regulations refer to "ham" in any way.

Sure they do.... the USDA regulations.

From: K0HB on Jul 28, 8:55 pm

wrote

none of the U.S. regulations refer to "ham" in any way.

Sure they do.... the USDA regulations.

Nicely TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.

Remember: "Ham is the butchered meat of swine."


dit dit