K4YZ wrote:
wrote:

So, given a thousand questions, a thousand correct answers,
and three thousand incorrect answers, I doubt that all but
a rare few eidetic-aptitude humans could "ace" such a test.
That "memorization passing" excuse used by so many is just
BS...BS of low quality at that, lots of smell but of little
value.

But so far YOU can't pass a test with only 35 questions in it...So
why the subterfuge about 1000...?!?!

can't more libel stevie chooses not to

I am sure he can


U.S. amateur radio is a HOBBY...(SNIP)

Says who?

The FCC doesn't.

No where in Part 97 does the word "hobby" appear.

Are there people who participate in Amateur Radio as a
"HOBBY"...?!?! Certainly..just as there are people who participate in
Emergency Medical Services, Search And Rescue, Meals-on-Wheels, etc for
whatever personal gratification they can glean from it.

That people do "have fun" does NOT negate the value of the Amateur
Radio SERVICE as the disaster relief, emergency communications and
health and welfare medium that it ALSO is.

Lenn never said that the ARS had No value, just not the value that many
such as yourelf make out


(UNSNIP)...not an occupation...(SNIP)

It is to many. It provides jobs.

(UNSNIP)...not some vital service to the nation.

It is that too.

That YOU don't think it is is irrelevent.

I just wish that more would
treat it as such instead of wandering off in the haze of
their clouded imaginations about their "federal
authorization" license and imagined self-importance.

I am sure you DO wish that many would treat it that way. Then all
of your rantings, musings and other mispent efforts herein would be
justified.

you certainly do

you think it gives you powers beyond mortal men


Sorry for you "they" don't, eh?



Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

From: b.b. on Jul 25, 3:19 am

wrote:
From: "b.b." on Sun 24 Jul 2005 09:11
John Smith wrote:

Jimmie Noserve tried his best satirical rant with the "NTI"
thing and drew a blank. He was trying to pick up on Smith
Charts as a diatribe-weapon, falling short on his attempts
at making such knowledge sound foolish.

But I think Jim/N2EY worked hard at it. At least as hard as KH2D.
Perhaps his mind isn't as efficient as Kehler's.

I'll grant you that. Inefficiency may come from being stuck
in a Time Warp of spirit back to the 20s and 30s of radio.

"Smith Charts" aren't ham lore. Smith Charts are a terrific
aid in seeing solutions to complex impedances over frequency
but Phil Smith's wonderful diagram came out of pre-WW2
testing of telephone lines!

Say it isn't so!

Ah, but I have to tell the truth!

Telephony involves voice and
the Mighty Macho Morsemen will have none of voice! That the
entire RF industry picked up on Smith Charts, used them, even
had the format hardwired into test instrumentation, is beside
the point. Jimmie, a supposed professional in electronics,
despises professionalism, the rest of the RF world, and any
no-coder within spitting distance.

Or sputtering distance.

Tsk. This newsgroup should come with a spitoon attached. :-)


They might need to have look over their shoulder's. Hi!

BWAAAAHAAAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Brian, I doubt there's enough money in the ARRL treasury to
pay me for that task! :-)

It would be formidable...

Well, I don't ask for too much. The ARRL's income (on their
federal income tax for 2002) was a mere $12.5 million or so...


The FCC is NOT an academic organization and its "tests" are
just regulatory tools, a part of the licensing process the FCC
uses to regulate ALL of U.S. civil radio. It's no more than
that...but lots and lots of hams are into the FANTASY that it
shows some "expertise" in radio. Such test passings show
ONLY that an individual has passed a few tests.

Paper chasers...

Everything has to be documented until it comes time to back their
claims.

Then the fun begins! :-)

Note: Some
like to puff up their chests and say "they are authorized
by the federal government(!)" as if they were junior G-men.

As if???

"As if." Except for those that actually BOUGHT one of those
fancy Ham Shields on sale! THOSE would be "true" radio cops!

Junior G-Men Hams! "Out of the box!" [FedEx or UPS shipping
box, that is...]

"As if." I had a bite of a hoagie last week, brought back
some of the Philly slang I heard...besides giving me
indigestion...but I didn't get "gaz." :-)

Privatized radio operator testing is a part of NOW and has
been for several years. [privatization of other government
regulations has been the norm too] As such, multiple-choice
questions are the logical choice for private testers...avoids
the need for testing the testers on their ability to discern
correct written responses from wrong ones.

That is the only way that it can work.

Well, NOT according to the olde-tyme hammes read in here.
THEY want a full two-semester course with Finals for the
simplest class license...in order for newcomers to be as
smart as they. :-)

That avoids all
the layering of beaurocracy that so many bitch about. The
multiple-choice format has been around for decades and there's
nothing actually wrong with it (except in the newsgroup
environment where everyone seems to be an "expert" on testing).

They are many, many things.

And each and everyone is absolutely CORRECT and any fool that
disagrees in the slightest with any of them is a "Putz" or
worse... :-)


Further, the FCC only states that a MINIMUM of ten questions
for each of the required questions per written test element
for a class be generated. There is NO LIMIT on the maximum
number! The questions (and answers) themselves left
ENTIRELY up to the VEC Question Pool Committee. The VEC QPC
is made up ONLY of licensed radio amateurs. By law.

And they can completely violate the Morse Code timing of elements. No
wonder the FCC doesn't have a definition of Morse Code within the U.S.
Statutes.

Well, not a complete one for WORD RATE in the law. The
referenced CCITT-to-ITU document on Telegraphy doesn't define
RATE. Worse yet, that CCITT-to-ITU document reference is
intended for COMMERCIAL telegraphy! :-)

Those who **** and moan about "today's multiple-choice" need
to contact the VEC QPC...their fellows in the 'amateur
community.' Open Pools are NOT going away as long as
privatized testing exists. All that "memorization" BS is
just BS by the olde-tymers who probably haven't taken a
single written test of any kind in over a decade (except
maybe a driver's license thing, depending on their state).

Some states have mandatory retesting for the elderly.

California does not. :-) California drivers licenses do
not require retesting for five years if there are no
infractions of the Motor Vehicle Code on record for them.
[more often depending on number of infractions]

However, the FCC has totally stricken AGE from all amateur
radio regulations. "Six year old extras" are a legal
possibility!

Could anyone "memorize" a thousand questions...along with
the single correct answer against three other incorrect
answers? Might be possible for stage actors, I don't know
for sure. I'm only acquainted with a few TV and screen
actors of less than stellar rank...they have learned to
memorize dialogue LINES, at least enough for a day's
shooting (perhaps 6 to 8 pages of standard-format script).

Don't go giving them ideas. I can see at least one pretending to be a
TV weatherman with one page of dialogue.

Har! "Ron Burgundy" comes to mind...! :-)

So, given a thousand questions, a thousand correct answers,
and three thousand incorrect answers, I doubt that all but
a rare few eidetic-aptitude humans could "ace" such a test.
That "memorization passing" excuse used by so many is just
BS...BS of low quality at that, lots of smell but of little
value.

They will claim that all new hams have photographic memories. It will
be the only way of distinguishing themselves from the "riff-raff."

THEY will always have excuses, rationales, etc., upon etc. :-)

U.S. amateur radio is a HOBBY, not an occupation, not some
vital service to the nation. I just wish that more would
treat it as such instead of wandering off in the haze of
their clouded imaginations about their "federal
authorization" license and imagined self-importance.

I consider it an important radio service that could be utilized in the
service to nation.

True enough! However, there are two takes on the "official
phrases" in FCC regulations on that:

1. It is kind of a "standard boilerplate" political nice-nice
phrase to justify a radio service existance. ["appreciation"
letters sent by officials to hams, ham groups are in the
same category, but to say so out loud is to invoke total
warfare by the ham faithfull!]

2. There is SOME truth to it, however small the actual incidents
of "service to the nation [community]" are.

The ARRL long ago picked up on (2), disregarded (1), and pitched
it constantly to anyone reading. Nice-nice words that most hams
took to emotionally. They WANTED to hear such things in order to
justify their hobby to others...and perhaps to themselves. It
made them feel IMPORTANT!

But I doubt that every single citizen or government
agency can be guaranteed emergency communications via amateur radio, no
matter what the MMM would have you think.

True enough also! However, the Mighty Macho Morsemen still dream
about "saving lives" a la the Titanic disaster, all done with that
morse code stuff. It is part of the fabric of their existance.
Fabric tailored for them by the PR troops in Newington. In any
other venue such would be called "brainwashing." But not here,
no sir, it is what they live for...

dit dot

an old friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:

So, given a thousand questions, a thousand correct answers,
and three thousand incorrect answers, I doubt that all but
a rare few eidetic-aptitude humans could "ace" such a test.
That "memorization passing" excuse used by so many is just
BS...BS of low quality at that, lots of smell but of little
value.

But so far YOU can't pass a test with only 35 questions in it...So
why the subterfuge about 1000...?!?!

can't more libel stevie chooses not to

What libel?

I am sure he can

Sure I can WHAT...?!?!

U.S. amateur radio is a HOBBY...(SNIP)

Says who?

The FCC doesn't.

No where in Part 97 does the word "hobby" appear.

Are there people who participate in Amateur Radio as a
"HOBBY"...?!?! Certainly..just as there are people who participate in
Emergency Medical Services, Search And Rescue, Meals-on-Wheels, etc for
whatever personal gratification they can glean from it.

That people do "have fun" does NOT negate the value of the Amateur
Radio SERVICE as the disaster relief, emergency communications and
health and welfare medium that it ALSO is.

Lenn never said that the ARS had No value, just not the value that many
such as yourelf make out

Sure he has.

He's done it over and over.

(UNSNIP)...not an occupation...(SNIP)

It is to many. It provides jobs.

(UNSNIP)...not some vital service to the nation.

It is that too.

That YOU don't think it is is irrelevent.

I just wish that more would
treat it as such instead of wandering off in the haze of
their clouded imaginations about their "federal
authorization" license and imagined self-importance.

I am sure you DO wish that many would treat it that way. Then all
of your rantings, musings and other mispent efforts herein would be
justified.

you certainly do

you think it gives you powers beyond mortal men

You need to re-read my paragraph, Markie, then re-read YOUR
reply...If you are even 1/100th the "man" you claim to be, try to be a
bit objective and figure out why your reply doesn't even come anywhere
close to sounding reasonably germane.

Then come back after I've finished laughing at you...Again...

Steve, K4YZ



Sorry for you "they" don't, eh?



Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
an old friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:

So, given a thousand questions, a thousand correct answers,
and three thousand incorrect answers, I doubt that all but
a rare few eidetic-aptitude humans could "ace" such a test.
That "memorization passing" excuse used by so many is just
BS...BS of low quality at that, lots of smell but of little
value.

But so far YOU can't pass a test with only 35 questions in it...So
why the subterfuge about 1000...?!?!

can't more libel stevie chooses not to

What libel?

you state that Len can't pass

that is libel stevie

I am sure he can

Sure I can WHAT...?!?!

you can no read the post He can Lenn since you can't follow the proper
use of pronouns

more of your arrogance Stevie


U.S. amateur radio is a HOBBY...(SNIP)

Says who?

The FCC doesn't.

No where in Part 97 does the word "hobby" appear.

Are there people who participate in Amateur Radio as a
"HOBBY"...?!?! Certainly..just as there are people who participate in
Emergency Medical Services, Search And Rescue, Meals-on-Wheels, etc for
whatever personal gratification they can glean from it.

That people do "have fun" does NOT negate the value of the Amateur
Radio SERVICE as the disaster relief, emergency communications and
health and welfare medium that it ALSO is.

Lenn never said that the ARS had No value, just not the value that many
such as yourelf make out

Sure he has.

nope


He's done it over and over.

only in your distortions

Indeed he adkonwledges the role of the ARS further up in this thread


(UNSNIP)...not an occupation...(SNIP)

It is to many. It provides jobs.

(UNSNIP)...not some vital service to the nation.

It is that too.

That YOU don't think it is is irrelevent.

I just wish that more would
treat it as such instead of wandering off in the haze of
their clouded imaginations about their "federal
authorization" license and imagined self-importance.

I am sure you DO wish that many would treat it that way. Then all
of your rantings, musings and other mispent efforts herein would be
justified.

you certainly do

you think it gives you powers beyond mortal men

You need to re-read my paragraph, Markie, then re-read YOUR
reply...If you are even 1/100th the "man" you claim to be, try to be a
bit objective and figure out why your reply doesn't even come anywhere
close to sounding reasonably germane.

it is quite germane you and other of MMM claim amzing powers for the
ARS. The ARS does provide usefull serivce esp in getting a lot stuff
off the plates of the Cops and/or military (depends on the incident)
but no way the saves the day

The ARS makes a real and mojor difference for those people it helps ,
but the disasters remain much the same with or without us


Then come back after I've finished laughing at you...Again...

you mean wiat a few years don't you

Steve, K4YZ



Sorry for you "they" don't, eh?



Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

wrote:
From: b.b. on Jul 25, 3:19 am

wrote:
From: "b.b." on Sun 24 Jul 2005 09:11
John Smith wrote:

Jimmie Noserve tried his best satirical rant with the "NTI"
thing and drew a blank. He was trying to pick up on Smith
Charts as a diatribe-weapon, falling short on his attempts
at making such knowledge sound foolish.

But I think Jim/N2EY worked hard at it. At least as hard as KH2D.
Perhaps his mind isn't as efficient as Kehler's.

I'll grant you that. Inefficiency may come from being stuck
in a Time Warp of spirit back to the 20s and 30s of radio.

I love hearing of amateur radio's contributions during WWII.

"Smith Charts" aren't ham lore. Smith Charts are a terrific
aid in seeing solutions to complex impedances over frequency
but Phil Smith's wonderful diagram came out of pre-WW2
testing of telephone lines!

Say it isn't so!

Ah, but I have to tell the truth!

Telephony involves voice and
the Mighty Macho Morsemen will have none of voice! That the
entire RF industry picked up on Smith Charts, used them, even
had the format hardwired into test instrumentation, is beside
the point. Jimmie, a supposed professional in electronics,
despises professionalism, the rest of the RF world, and any
no-coder within spitting distance.

Or sputtering distance.

Tsk. This newsgroup should come with a spitoon attached. :-)

Now that's the next growth industry in amateur radio; spitoons and
splash sheilds.

They might need to have look over their shoulder's. Hi!

BWAAAAHAAAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Brian, I doubt there's enough money in the ARRL treasury to
pay me for that task! :-)

It would be formidable...

Well, I don't ask for too much. The ARRL's income (on their
federal income tax for 2002) was a mere $12.5 million or so...

Plus expenses.

The FCC is NOT an academic organization and its "tests" are
just regulatory tools, a part of the licensing process the FCC
uses to regulate ALL of U.S. civil radio. It's no more than
that...but lots and lots of hams are into the FANTASY that it
shows some "expertise" in radio. Such test passings show
ONLY that an individual has passed a few tests.

Paper chasers...

Everything has to be documented until it comes time to back their
claims.

Then the fun begins! :-)

They have no sense of humor at all when it comes to "thier"
documentation.

Note: Some
like to puff up their chests and say "they are authorized
by the federal government(!)" as if they were junior G-men.

As if???

"As if." Except for those that actually BOUGHT one of those
fancy Ham Shields on sale! THOSE would be "true" radio cops!

But they wear that sheild on "thier" belt, partially obscured by
"thier" jacket. The uninformed (and sometimes the uniformed) assume
it's official in some capacity.

Junior G-Men Hams! "Out of the box!" [FedEx or UPS shipping
box, that is...]

[or the Quaker Oats round box or the Altoids tin box or the Tuna Tin
Two]

"As if." I had a bite of a hoagie last week, brought back
some of the Philly slang I heard...besides giving me
indigestion...but I didn't get "gaz." :-)

Too much information.

Privatized radio operator testing is a part of NOW and has
been for several years. [privatization of other government
regulations has been the norm too] As such, multiple-choice
questions are the logical choice for private testers...avoids
the need for testing the testers on their ability to discern
correct written responses from wrong ones.

That is the only way that it can work.

Well, NOT according to the olde-tyme hammes read in here.
THEY want a full two-semester course with Finals for the
simplest class license...in order for newcomers to be as
smart as they. :-)

They may say that, but in relity, the newcomers can never measure up to
them.

That avoids all
the layering of beaurocracy that so many bitch about. The
multiple-choice format has been around for decades and there's
nothing actually wrong with it (except in the newsgroup
environment where everyone seems to be an "expert" on testing).

They are many, many things.

And each and everyone is absolutely CORRECT and any fool that
disagrees in the slightest with any of them is a "Putz" or
worse... :-)

In "thier" zeal to put down any disagreement, they show what
disagreeable fellows they are.

Further, the FCC only states that a MINIMUM of ten questions
for each of the required questions per written test element
for a class be generated. There is NO LIMIT on the maximum
number! The questions (and answers) themselves left
ENTIRELY up to the VEC Question Pool Committee. The VEC QPC
is made up ONLY of licensed radio amateurs. By law.

And they can completely violate the Morse Code timing of elements. No
wonder the FCC doesn't have a definition of Morse Code within the U.S.
Statutes.

Well, not a complete one for WORD RATE in the law. The
referenced CCITT-to-ITU document on Telegraphy doesn't define
RATE. Worse yet, that CCITT-to-ITU document reference is
intended for COMMERCIAL telegraphy! :-)

And we know what commercial radio demands for a Morse Code Exam.

Those who **** and moan about "today's multiple-choice" need
to contact the VEC QPC...their fellows in the 'amateur
community.' Open Pools are NOT going away as long as
privatized testing exists. All that "memorization" BS is
just BS by the olde-tymers who probably haven't taken a
single written test of any kind in over a decade (except
maybe a driver's license thing, depending on their state).

Some states have mandatory retesting for the elderly.

California does not. :-) California drivers licenses do
not require retesting for five years if there are no
infractions of the Motor Vehicle Code on record for them.
[more often depending on number of infractions]

However, the FCC has totally stricken AGE from all amateur
radio regulations. "Six year old extras" are a legal
possibility!

....Proven on RRAP every day. At least that's how old they act
sometimes.

Could anyone "memorize" a thousand questions...along with
the single correct answer against three other incorrect
answers? Might be possible for stage actors, I don't know
for sure. I'm only acquainted with a few TV and screen
actors of less than stellar rank...they have learned to
memorize dialogue LINES, at least enough for a day's
shooting (perhaps 6 to 8 pages of standard-format script).

Don't go giving them ideas. I can see at least one pretending to be a
TV weatherman with one page of dialogue.

Har! "Ron Burgundy" comes to mind...! :-)

Hmmmm? Ron Burgundy in a cast-off Air Force flight suit...

So, given a thousand questions, a thousand correct answers,
and three thousand incorrect answers, I doubt that all but
a rare few eidetic-aptitude humans could "ace" such a test.
That "memorization passing" excuse used by so many is just
BS...BS of low quality at that, lots of smell but of little
value.

They will claim that all new hams have photographic memories. It will
be the only way of distinguishing themselves from the "riff-raff."

THEY will always have excuses, rationales, etc., upon etc. :-)

Stand back and watch.

U.S. amateur radio is a HOBBY, not an occupation, not some
vital service to the nation. I just wish that more would
treat it as such instead of wandering off in the haze of
their clouded imaginations about their "federal
authorization" license and imagined self-importance.

I consider it an important radio service that could be utilized in the
service to nation.

True enough! However, there are two takes on the "official
phrases" in FCC regulations on that:

1. It is kind of a "standard boilerplate" political nice-nice
phrase to justify a radio service existance. ["appreciation"
letters sent by officials to hams, ham groups are in the
same category, but to say so out loud is to invoke total
warfare by the ham faithfull!]

2. There is SOME truth to it, however small the actual incidents
of "service to the nation [community]" are.

The ARRL long ago picked up on (2), disregarded (1), and pitched
it constantly to anyone reading. Nice-nice words that most hams
took to emotionally. They WANTED to hear such things in order to
justify their hobby to others...and perhaps to themselves. It
made them feel IMPORTANT!

It's a way for those who didn't serve to be able to hang "thier" hats
on something and feel good.

But I doubt that every single citizen or government
agency can be guaranteed emergency communications via amateur radio, no
matter what the MMM would have you think.

True enough also! However, the Mighty Macho Morsemen still dream
about "saving lives" a la the Titanic disaster, all done with that
morse code stuff. It is part of the fabric of their existance.
Fabric tailored for them by the PR troops in Newington. In any
other venue such would be called "brainwashing." But not here,
no sir, it is what they live for...

dit dot


I recall Larry Roll creating a scenario where only a MMM could respond
effectively. Every "Shack on a Belt" so-called emergency communicator
"wannabe" was useless in Larry's scenario.

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:

So, given a thousand questions, a thousand correct answers,
and three thousand incorrect answers, I doubt that all but
a rare few eidetic-aptitude humans could "ace" such a test.
That "memorization passing" excuse used by so many is just
BS...BS of low quality at that, lots of smell but of little
value.

But so far YOU can't pass a test with only 35 questions in it...So
why the subterfuge about 1000...?!?!

You pass out medical diagnoses and yet you haven't taken the doctor
test?

Why dat?

b.b. wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:

So, given a thousand questions, a thousand correct answers,
and three thousand incorrect answers, I doubt that all but
a rare few eidetic-aptitude humans could "ace" such a test.
That "memorization passing" excuse used by so many is just
BS...BS of low quality at that, lots of smell but of little
value.

But so far YOU can't pass a test with only 35 questions in it...So
why the subterfuge about 1000...?!?!

You pass out medical diagnoses and yet you haven't taken the doctor
test?

haven't even taken the RN test

Why dat?

he is an MMM perhaps