Bill Sohl wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
I find it interesting to note what is *not* part of the NPRM, despite a
bunch of proposals that asked for changes beyond code testing:

- No change to the written tests at all

The VEC organization has full authority to change written
tests (e.g. specific questions, subjects, etc) without any FCC
action needed. The NPRM specifically mentioned the
process is much quicker than rule making via the FCC.

All the QPC/VECs are allowed to do is increase the size of the
question pool. They cannot change the methodology of the written test,
such as how many questions are on the test, the passing grade, the
marking method (some tests take off points for wrong answers so that if
you don't know the answer, you're better off leaving it balnk instead
of guessing), etc.

For example, the current format is multiple-choice with 4 possible
answers. Can the QPC/VEC go to six possible answers (reduces the
chances
of a pure-guess correct answer)?

- No new entry-level license class

- No free upgrades or consolidations of existing licenses, except that
all Technicians will essentially become Tech Pluses (in privileges but
not in name).

I'll have to read the NPRM again. I didn't come to that
conclusion myself.

It's not clear to me - I just assumed that since the Tech requirement
would be Element 2, and since all Tech Pluses are being renewed as
Tech, and the only difference between Tech and Tech Plus is Element 1.

- No "refarming" of subbands, nor expansion of license
privileges except the above-mentioned Techs-get-Tech-
Plus-privileges change

Didn't the FCC mention that was being considered under
different RMs?

Yep, but it seems odd to do it piecemeal.

And now the big one

- "Entry-level-licensd" hams (for lack of a better term that includes
Novices, Technicians and Tech Pluses) will still have
very limited HF privileges. Ironically, they will have only
Morse Code/CW on small segments of 80, 40 and 15 meters, plus
SSB and Morse Code/CW on a somewhat bigger slice of 10 meters.

No digital/data/image modes, no FM on HF at all - even though most of
those "entry-level-licensed" hams have all privileges above 50 MHz. No
access to five of the HF/MF bands at all.

Seems FCC went for "minimum change".

Seems that way to me too.

Is that the best we can do?

What else do you want?

The problem I see is that the current entry-level license funnels
people to VHF/UHF. This came about in part because of S25.5, which has
been history for over two years now.

Now there's nothing wrong with VHF/UHF operating, but it has certain
limitations. With basic equipment it's usually limited to local and
maybe regional communications. It's also not the easiest part of the
spectrum for homebrewing.

Wouldn't it be better to offer newcomers a more balanced selection of
frequencies to use? And more than two modes on HF?

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

Perhaps the FCC is wanting to see how this will go for a while and depending
on the results, reduce the number of classes to two.

I am willing to bet that there will be some arguments made to the
effect that once the code is dropped it WILL become a defacto 2-class
license, and they will just go ahead in this NPRM and do it.

Well, let's look at the history....

Before 1951, there were effectively two license classes, A and B. (The
third license class, C, was just a B taken by mail). Both allowed
access to all
amateur frequencies and all authorized modes, at full power, with one
exception.
The exception was that only Class A hams could operate 'phone on the
ham bands between 2 and 25 MHz.

your point? I have read this I don't know how many times from you


From February 1953 until November 1968, there were effectively three
license classes, Novice (1 year 1-time-only newcomer license),
Technician (VHF-and-up experimenter license) and
General/Conditional/Advanced/Extra (all privileges licenses). Some
people refer to that time as a "golden age".....

and many don't but you point?


In 1998 FCC proposed reduction to 4 license classes (open to new
issues, that is) - Technician, General, Advanced, Extra. In 2000 they
went one step further and closed off the Advanced, too.

So there's definitely a precedent. OTOH, FCC has steadfastly refused
free upgrades.

so that is your point

Who cares

I oppose them after all it makes those that receive targets in the ARS
of the jealous masses


Then how far till 1? Then none?

Admin work - that's the rub.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote in message
oups.com...
Bill Sohl wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
I find it interesting to note what is *not* part of the NPRM, despite a
bunch of proposals that asked for changes beyond code testing:

- No change to the written tests at all

The VEC organization has full authority to change written
tests (e.g. specific questions, subjects, etc) without any FCC
action needed. The NPRM specifically mentioned the
process is much quicker than rule making via the FCC.

All the QPC/VECs are allowed to do is increase the size of the
question pool.

They could also, therefore lower the size of the pool.
Likewise, they can change subject areas addressed
by questions in each pool. In doing so, the VEC orgs
could migrate the current Tech question pool to a
pool the more aligns with a "beginner license" test.

They cannot change the methodology of the written test,
such as how many questions are on the test, the passing grade, the
marking method (some tests take off points for wrong answers so that if
you don't know the answer, you're better off leaving it balnk instead
of guessing), etc.

Agreed. I was only talking content, not process.

(SNIP)
- No free upgrades or consolidations of existing licenses, except that
all Technicians will essentially become Tech Pluses (in privileges but
not in name).

I'll have to read the NPRM again. I didn't come to that
conclusion myself.

It's not clear to me - I just assumed that since the Tech requirement
would be Element 2, and since all Tech Pluses are being renewed as
Tech, and the only difference between Tech and Tech Plus is Element 1.

I follow your logic, but I think it would be clearer if
so stated by the FCC in their final R&O.

(SNIP)

And now the big one

- "Entry-level-licensd" hams (for lack of a better term that includes
Novices, Technicians and Tech Pluses) will still have
very limited HF privileges. Ironically, they will have only
Morse Code/CW on small segments of 80, 40 and 15 meters, plus
SSB and Morse Code/CW on a somewhat bigger slice of 10 meters.

No digital/data/image modes, no FM on HF at all - even though most of
those "entry-level-licensed" hams have all privileges above 50 MHz. No
access to five of the HF/MF bands at all.

Seems FCC went for "minimum change".

Seems that way to me too.

Is that the best we can do?

What else do you want?

The problem I see is that the current entry-level license funnels
people to VHF/UHF. This came about in part because of S25.5, which has
been history for over two years now.

Agree.

Now there's nothing wrong with VHF/UHF operating, but it has certain
limitations. With basic equipment it's usually limited to local and
maybe regional communications. It's also not the easiest part of the
spectrum for homebrewing.

Wouldn't it be better to offer newcomers a more balanced selection of
frequencies to use? And more than two modes on HF?

I agree. I liked the idea of a broader beginner license.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

Personally, I think they should dump tech.

Either let them study and get general or forget it, hopefully the newbie's will figure that out on their own...


We should have some entry level test that reasonably smart
8th graders can handle. "Get them when they're young..."

whats wrong with the one now that a reasonably smart 6 year old can pass?
http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2002/03/10/1/

"robert casey" wrote in message
k.net...
John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

Personally, I think they should dump tech.

Either let them study and get general or forget it, hopefully the
newbie's will figure that out on their own...


We should have some entry level test that reasonably smart
8th graders can handle. "Get them when they're young..."

wrote in message
oups.com...
I find it interesting to note what is *not* part of the NPRM, despite a
bunch of proposals that asked for changes beyond code testing:

- No change to the written tests at all

- No new entry-level license class

- No free upgrades or consolidations of existing licenses, except that
all Technicians will essentially become Tech Pluses (in privileges but
not in name).

- No "refarming" of subbands, nor expansion of license privileges
except the above-mentioned Techs-get-Tech-Plus-privileges change

And now the big one

- "Entry-level-licensd" hams (for lack of a better term that includes
Novices, Technicians and Tech Pluses) will still have
very limited HF privileges. Ironically, they will have only
Morse Code/CW on small segments of 80, 40 and 15 meters, plus
SSB and Morse Code/CW on a somewhat bigger slice of 10 meters.

No digital/data/image modes, no FM on HF at all - even though most of
those "entry-level-licensed" hams have all privileges above 50 MHz. No
access to five of the HF/MF bands at all.

Seems FCC went for "minimum change".

Is that the best we can do?

73 de Jim, N2EY

-
As I have said many times, the FCC, which consists mainly of lawyers,
isn't gonna do nothing more than what is absolutely necessary.

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
oups.com...
I find it interesting to note what is *not* part of the NPRM, despite a
bunch of proposals that asked for changes beyond code testing:

- No change to the written tests at all

- No new entry-level license class

- No free upgrades or consolidations of existing licenses, except that
all Technicians will essentially become Tech Pluses (in privileges but
not in name).


After re-reading the NPRM, I'm no longer so sure of that as I was. The
appendix shows the new wording of the changed sections and the sections that
show privileges have not been changed. So it may be that the FCC intends to
keep the distinction between flavors of Tech and make the codeless
Technicians upgrade to get any HF privileges. Their extensive discussion
sections also seem to support that. Thirty pages including footnotes is a
lot of details to digest.

If approach is true, there are a lot of Technicians in for a shock.

Anyway, I think the FCC needs to clarify that.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"b.b." wrote in message
oups.com...


wrote:
I find it interesting to note what is *not* part of the NPRM, despite a
bunch of proposals that asked for changes beyond code testing:

- No change to the written tests at all

- No new entry-level license class

- No free upgrades or consolidations of existing licenses, except that
all Technicians will essentially become Tech Pluses (in privileges but
not in name).

- No "refarming" of subbands, nor expansion of license privileges
except the above-mentioned Techs-get-Tech-Plus-privileges change

And now the big one

- "Entry-level-licensd" hams (for lack of a better term that includes
Novices, Technicians and Tech Pluses) will still have
very limited HF privileges. Ironically, they will have only
Morse Code/CW on small segments of 80, 40 and 15 meters, plus
SSB and Morse Code/CW on a somewhat bigger slice of 10 meters.

No digital/data/image modes, no FM on HF at all - even though most of
those "entry-level-licensed" hams have all privileges above 50 MHz. No
access to five of the HF/MF bands at all.

Seems FCC went for "minimum change".

Is that the best we can do?

73 de Jim, N2EY


Typical FCC bandaid fix that will leave in it's wake more problems than
the one it solves.


It doesn't create any new problems that I can see. As they say in their
discussion, anyone wanting expanded privileges will only have to take the
appropriate written test.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:

Perhaps the FCC is wanting to see how this will go for a while and
depending
on the results, reduce the number of classes to two.

I am willing to bet that there will be some arguments made to the
effect that once the code is dropped it WILL become a defacto 2-class
license, and they will just go ahead in this NPRM and do it.

Then how far till 1? Then none?

73

Steve, K4YZ


In the discussion section of the NPRM, the FCC specifically said they would
not address any changes at this time. I think they'll stick to it while
they consider other petitions.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

John Smith wrote:
robert:

Frankly, what about amateur radio do you see as being so difficult. I keep seeing this same idea reflected in others text--I thought them only joking?

If you belive nothing else I ever write John Believe this some hams are
very serious about thinking the test should be some kind of ordel


What freaks (or freqs) the various licenses can operate on?

Ohms law?

Formulas for power?

Wavelength?

Concept of extremely dense rf fields posing a danger?

Harmonics and the need for traps, filters, etc?

Power limitations on various bands?

What is it which you see as a real road block and bordering on the edge of rocket science? I just don't get it?

John

"robert casey" wrote in message k.net...
John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

Personally, I think they should dump tech.

Either let them study and get general or forget it, hopefully the newbie's will figure that out on their own...


We should have some entry level test that reasonably smart
8th graders can handle. "Get them when they're young..."