"KØHB" ) writes:
"amateur" wrote

Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification
now would have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

Not in most cases.

As I read it, you are authorized HF access as of today, without further testing,
if...

1) ...you got your Basic certificate before April 2, 2002.
2) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 AND at a score
of 80% or higher.
3) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 at a score lower
than 80% AND pass a 5WPM Morse exam

If you have the advanced license, that also gives you HF privileges with this
new change.

The retaking the test is only if someone didn't receive the 80% pass mark but
want HF and fits none of the above four possibilities.

The RAC bulletin reads like only if you were licensed before April 2, 2002
that you automatically get HF privileges. But on reading the Canadian
Gazette entry on this,
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08435e.html
it seems less clearcut.

They start off with the bit about before April 2, 2002:
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed to
operate in the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the experience and
knowledge they have acquired over this period of time.

But then further down:
Amateurs holding a Basic Certificate who have been certified for at
least three years will automatically receive authority to operate in
the HF bands. This is based on the rationale that three years of
experience will have allowed the amateur to acquire sufficient
experience to operate proficiently in the HF bands. Amateurs who
received their Basic Certificate within the three year interval prior
to the date of the new standards will be required to prove that they
had attained a mark of at least 80%.

Those two paragraphs don't fully mesh. The first is a hardcoding of
a date, but the second suggests that all one needs is a 3 year waiting
period. I'm not sure which takes control.

Michael VE2BVW

N2EY:

Perhaps introduce testing for "African Message Drum" also, bet some of those
guys could pound out a little ditty and have it carry a message to! Maybe
chant a little rap with it too!

Some testing in the care maintenance of carrier pigeons might be in order to,
for the guys who wanted real DX!

John

wrote in message
ups.com...
Leo wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:37:30 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:

An interesting announcement! Here in Canada, Morse Code is now an
alternative method of qualifying for HF privileges.

In other words - Morse survived!

Morse Code *testing* survived - it's just not mandatory anymore in
Canada.

IIRC, this was exactly what the commentary on the proposal supported.

A couple of the other requests from the Amateur community
via the
RAC proposal) were granted as well - increasing the pass
marks on the
exams to 70% from 60%, and the addition of commercial
kit-building
privileges for Basic license holders.

Not bad - now there's a regulatory agency that listens. Well
done, Industry Canada!

I agree 100%!

They found a way to give everyone some of what they wanted.
They listened to what the majority of those expressing an
opinion supported, and acted on it. They produced a set of
regulations designed to reconcile or at least minimize
polarization, rather than increase it.

What concepts, eh? ;-)

Perhaps we in the USA should suggest such a system to FCC....



73 de Jim, N2EY

Michael Black wrote:
"K=D8HB" ) writes:
"amateur" wrote

Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification
now would have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

Not in most cases.

As I read it, you are authorized HF access as of today, without further=
testing,
if...

1) ...you got your Basic certificate before April 2, 2002.
2) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 AND at =
a score
of 80% or higher.
3) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 at a sc=
ore lower
than 80% AND pass a 5WPM Morse exam

If you have the advanced license, that also gives you HF privileges with =
this
new change.

The retaking the test is only if someone didn't receive the 80% pass mark=
but
want HF and fits none of the above four possibilities.

The RAC bulletin reads like only if you were licensed before April 2, 2002
that you automatically get HF privileges. But on reading the Canadian
Gazette entry on this,
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf08435e.html
it seems less clearcut.

break
They start off with the bit about before April 2, 2002:
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed to
operate in the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the experience and
knowledge they have acquired over this period of time.

But then further down:
Amateurs holding a Basic Certificate who have been certified for at
least three years will automatically receive authority to operate in
the HF bands. This is based on the rationale that three years of
experience will have allowed the amateur to acquire sufficient
experience to operate proficiently in the HF bands. Amateurs who
received their Basic Certificate within the three year interval prior
to the date of the new standards will be required to prove that they
had attained a mark of at least 80%.

Those two paragraphs don't fully mesh. The first is a hardcoding of
a date, but the second suggests that all one needs is a 3 year waiting
period. I'm not sure which takes control.

they mesh okesp if you igamine that when it was written it may have
been intended to be posted earier

A date certain and then a period of time covers the new folks over time
=20
Michael VE2BVW

From: "John Smith" on Sat 30 Jul 2005 08:39

N2EY:

Perhaps introduce testing for "African Message Drum" also, bet some of those
guys could pound out a little ditty and have it carry a message to! Maybe
chant a little rap with it too!

Sounds good! Message Drums were in use long before morse and
telegraphy...very TRADITIONAL. The first use of "comm nets"
with "message relays" too!

Problem is, USA ham radio is basically done by WHITE MALES so
it wouldn't go over big. Dunno about Canadian demographics
but British Columbia is largely white...

Some testing in the care maintenance of carrier pigeons might be in order to,
for the guys who wanted real DX!

Har! The United States Army Signal Corps actually had a
Carrier Pigeon Service...trainers, handlers, mobile coops,
the whole magilla. Came into being before WW 1 but was
disbanded afterwards. Sounded like a good idea at the time,
faster than a land courier, minimal handling, no electricity
needed (bird poop is safer than RF burns). That time might
have been the start of the phrase "eat the bird," though.
Anyone on WW 1 field rations might look at pigeons with a
hungry eye. "DX" wasn't so hot and "propagation" effects
weren't good using "pigeon code."

I like the Message Drum idea, though! Sounds like a plan...

bat tat

On 30 Jul 2005 05:13:12 -0700, wrote:

Leo wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:37:30 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:

An interesting announcement! Here in Canada, Morse Code is now an alternative method of qualifying for HF privileges.

In other words - Morse survived!

Morse Code *testing* survived - it's just not mandatory anymore in
Canada.

Correct - that's what I meant to say above!


IIRC, this was exactly what the commentary on the proposal supported.

You do indeed - it was recommended to IC that Morse testing be removed
as a mandatory requirment to HF access, but retained as an
alternative.


A couple of the other requests from the Amateur community
via the
RAC proposal) were granted as well - increasing the pass
marks on the
exams to 70% from 60%, and the addition of commercial
kit-building
privileges for Basic license holders.

Not bad - now there's a regulatory agency that listens. Well
done, Industry Canada!

I agree 100%!

They found a way to give everyone some of what they wanted.
They listened to what the majority of those expressing an
opinion supported, and acted on it. They produced a set of
regulations designed to reconcile or at least minimize
polarization, rather than increase it.

What concepts, eh? ;-)

Perhaps we in the USA should suggest such a system to FCC....

Good idea. Not sure if it would do much good, though - they don't
seem to be in listening mode on Amateur-related issues!




73 de Jim, N2EY

73. Leo

On 30 Jul 2005 14:17:19 -0700, wrote:

Problem is, USA ham radio is basically done by WHITE MALES so
it wouldn't go over big. Dunno about Canadian demographics
but British Columbia is largely white...

I know in Edmonton, Alberta there is at least one Chinese male and a
fairly active group of Philipino's. Also some women. But yes
predominantly in Edmonton I'd say at least 80% are white male.

I do not recall seeing any folks at the meetings who were black or
East Indian. In the Edmonton demographics there aren't many blacks
but there are a fair number of East Indians.

BTW there are a considerably number of hams in their 20s and 30s.
I'd say a third or so of the executive of the larger organizations is
in that age bracket.

Tony

On 30 Jul 2005 15:04:40 GMT, (Michael Black)
wrote:

They start off with the bit about before April 2, 2002:
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed to
operate in the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the experience and
knowledge they have acquired over this period of time.

But then further down:
Amateurs holding a Basic Certificate who have been certified for at
least three years will automatically receive authority to operate in
the HF bands. This is based on the rationale that three years of
experience will have allowed the amateur to acquire sufficient
experience to operate proficiently in the HF bands. Amateurs who
received their Basic Certificate within the three year interval prior
to the date of the new standards will be required to prove that they
had attained a mark of at least 80%.

Those two paragraphs don't fully mesh. The first is a hardcoding of
a date, but the second suggests that all one needs is a 3 year waiting
period. I'm not sure which takes control.

I agree that the sentence could be interpreted to be a three year
waiting period. That's certainly how I would read it too.

However when I review the Radiocommunication Information Circular
RIC-3 - Information on the Amateur Radio Service as at
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter.../sf01008e.html
it is quite clear.

1.3 General Criteria for Operation on HF Bands
Privileges granted to amateurs with an existing authorization will be
based on the following criteria:
(1) All Amateurs holding Basic and Advanced Qualifications will be
allowed to operate on the HF bands below 30 MHz.
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed to
operate on the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the experience and
knowledge they will have acquired over this period of time.
(3) Amateurs certified after April 1, 2002, who have demonstrated a
superior knowledge of operational, technical and regulatory
requirements by achieving a mark on the Basic examination of 80% or
above will be allowed to operate on the HF bands below 30 MHz.

Nothing there about getting automatic access to HF after three years
of getting your Basic license.

Tony

Tony:

Tune in the chicken band, channel 6--27.025 when the DX band conditions are up
on 11 meters (skip), just think how it will be when those
multi-kilowatt-ebonic-speaking-brothers get their tickets!!!

My gawd, diversity--don't ya just love it?

John

"Tony VE6MVP" wrote in message
...
On 30 Jul 2005 14:17:19 -0700, wrote:

Problem is, USA ham radio is basically done by WHITE MALES so
it wouldn't go over big. Dunno about Canadian demographics
but British Columbia is largely white...

I know in Edmonton, Alberta there is at least one Chinese male and a
fairly active group of Philipino's. Also some women. But yes
predominantly in Edmonton I'd say at least 80% are white male.

I do not recall seeing any folks at the meetings who were black or
East Indian. In the Edmonton demographics there aren't many blacks
but there are a fair number of East Indians.

BTW there are a considerably number of hams in their 20s and 30s.
I'd say a third or so of the executive of the larger organizations is
in that age bracket.

Tony

Tony VE6MVP ) writes:


Nothing there about getting automatic access to HF after three years
of getting your Basic license.

Tony

It's more a puzzler than anything else. In effect they are saying
anyone who's been licensed for three years at this point has experience,
while in the future 3 years experience is not sufficient.

It seems odd that if they feel a need to grandfather some, it's not
a blanket grandfathering at the time the new rules go into effect.
But given that they do specify a date, that would seem to be the case.


Of course, if this was the old days, they'd have to bring their log
in to show that they had a good three years of experience, rather
than just sitting on the license. Who can forget the old endorsement
for the amateur license that gave some limited HF phone, but you had
to prove that you had been active on HF CW in that time period.

I'm just really curious why they picked three years and not one.
The experience angle seems more to justify a partial grandfathering
than that experience can be generally traded in for HF priviliges.

Michael VE2BVW

On 31 Jul 2005 05:26:40 GMT, (Michael Black)
wrote:

It's more a puzzler than anything else. In effect they are saying
anyone who's been licensed for three years at this point has experience,
while in the future 3 years experience is not sufficient.

It seems odd that if they feel a need to grandfather some, it's not
a blanket grandfathering at the time the new rules go into effect.
But given that they do specify a date, that would seem to be the case.

shrug I agree with you.

Of course, if this was the old days, they'd have to bring their log
in to show that they had a good three years of experience, rather
than just sitting on the license. Who can forget the old endorsement
for the amateur license that gave some limited HF phone, but you had
to prove that you had been active on HF CW in that time period.

I've only been a ham since November 2004 so I can't speak for the good
old days.

But it would've made sense to me to get an examiner to sign off that
you have some experience such as knowing how to use the PTT button,
the DTMF on your keypad, participate in some nets without being
disruptive and being able to program memories into your radio.

Somewhat seriously though I can see a practical exam being somewhat
useful here.

Tony