(Michael Black) wrote in
:


"KØHB" ) writes:
"amateur" wrote

Does this mean the guys that have the basic qualification now would
have to go back and rewrite to get HF privilege ?

Not in most cases.

As I read it, you are authorized HF access as of today, without
further testing, if...

1) ...you got your Basic certificate before April 2, 2002.
2) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 AND at
a score of 80% or higher.
3) ...if you got your Basic certificate after April 2, 2002 at a
score lower than 80% AND pass a 5WPM Morse exam

If you have the advanced license, that also gives you HF privileges
with this new change.

The retaking the test is only if someone didn't receive the 80% pass
mark but want HF and fits none of the above four possibilities.

The RAC bulletin reads like only if you were licensed before April 2,
2002 that you automatically get HF privileges. But on reading the
Canadian Gazette entry on this,
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/inter...n/sf08435e.htm
l
it seems less clearcut.

They start off with the bit about before April 2, 2002:
(2) Amateurs certified prior to April 2, 2002 will be allowed
to operate in the HF bands below 30 MHz based on the
experience and knowledge they have acquired over this period of
time.

But then further down:
Amateurs holding a Basic Certificate who have been certified for
at least three years will automatically receive authority to
operate in the HF bands. This is based on the rationale that
three years of experience will have allowed the amateur to
acquire sufficient experience to operate proficiently in the
HF bands. Amateurs who received their Basic Certificate within the
three year interval prior to the date of the new standards will be
required to prove that they had attained a mark of at least 80%.

Those two paragraphs don't fully mesh. The first is a hardcoding of
a date, but the second suggests that all one needs is a 3 year waiting
period. I'm not sure which takes control.

Michael VE2BVW



As I understand it, the original proposal required an Advanced or 80% in
the Basic, but records of pass marks don't go back all that far, hence the
cut off date to avoid unfairness to anyone who can't find out their pass
mark. Then it sounds like they tacked on the three year clause which makes
that date irrelevant!

Vive la Canada!

73 de Alun, G8VUK, N3KIP

"John Smith" wrote in
:

N2EY:

Perhaps introduce testing for "African Message Drum" also, bet some of
those guys could pound out a little ditty and have it carry a message
to! Maybe chant a little rap with it too!

Some testing in the care maintenance of carrier pigeons might be in
order to, for the guys who wanted real DX!

John

wrote in message
ups.com...
Leo wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:37:30 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:

An interesting announcement! Here in Canada, Morse Code is now an
alternative method of qualifying for HF privileges.

In other words - Morse survived!

Morse Code *testing* survived - it's just not mandatory anymore in
Canada.

IIRC, this was exactly what the commentary on the proposal supported.

A couple of the other requests from the Amateur community
via the
RAC proposal) were granted as well - increasing the pass
marks on the
exams to 70% from 60%, and the addition of commercial kit-building
privileges for Basic license holders.

Not bad - now there's a regulatory agency that listens. Well done,
Industry Canada!

I agree 100%!

They found a way to give everyone some of what they wanted.
They listened to what the majority of those expressing an
opinion supported, and acted on it. They produced a set of
regulations designed to reconcile or at least minimize
polarization, rather than increase it.

What concepts, eh? ;-)

Perhaps we in the USA should suggest such a system to FCC....



73 de Jim, N2EY




It's a little late, isn't it Jim?

I find it interesting that South Africa was the first one to propose such a
system, but I don't think the ZAs adopted it in the end. I have no trouble
in principle with an alternative theory/code system, but how would you do
it? Maybe Elements 2 and 3 + 20 wpm or elements 2, 3 and 4 to get full
privileges?

It's all moot now anyway. We all know the NPRM will become the R&O.

There is one loose end, though. I read the NPRM to say that Tech+ would
become closed, so that all new Techs would have to get element 3 to get on
HF, but others have read it that all Techs would get Tech+ privileges. Does
anyone know which is right?

My XYL (N3MKR) is a no-code Tech, but she will be taking element 3 anyway.
Her object is to get a UK licence. As she is not a US citizen (neither am
I), the only way for her to do that short of taking the UK tests is to get
her General, which would entitle her to a UK Full licence. She isn't
prepared to learn code to do it, but then neither is she in the least
interested in getting on HF, or anything besides 2m FM as a matter of fact.

I reckon she could take her element 3 now (or could if she had studied,
LOL!), as it shouldn't have expired by the time the R&O comes out.
Hopefully, by the time she got her General the free lifetime licences
should have been introduced in the UK, which would work out very nicely.

I have reverted to my original no-code call for the UK, as it is now a Full
licence. For a while I held an 'A' call, G0VUK, obtained on the basis of my
US Advanced as then was. Over there calls can only be re-issued to an
immediate family member or to a club, and only with the licencee's
permission (or next of kin). So, just for a laugh, I could let her have my
A call while I now have a B (no-code) call, although I have passed 20wpm CW
and she can't read code atall! That should wind up a few people.

73 de Alun, G8VUK, N3KIP

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
.. .
"John Smith" wrote in
:

N2EY:

Perhaps introduce testing for "African Message Drum" also, bet some of
those guys could pound out a little ditty and have it carry a message
to! Maybe chant a little rap with it too!

Some testing in the care maintenance of carrier pigeons might be in
order to, for the guys who wanted real DX!

John

wrote in message
ups.com...
Leo wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:37:30 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:

An interesting announcement! Here in Canada, Morse Code is now an
alternative method of qualifying for HF privileges.

In other words - Morse survived!

Morse Code *testing* survived - it's just not mandatory anymore in
Canada.

IIRC, this was exactly what the commentary on the proposal supported.

A couple of the other requests from the Amateur community
via the
RAC proposal) were granted as well - increasing the pass
marks on the
exams to 70% from 60%, and the addition of commercial kit-building
privileges for Basic license holders.

Not bad - now there's a regulatory agency that listens. Well done,
Industry Canada!

I agree 100%!

They found a way to give everyone some of what they wanted.
They listened to what the majority of those expressing an
opinion supported, and acted on it. They produced a set of
regulations designed to reconcile or at least minimize
polarization, rather than increase it.

What concepts, eh? ;-)

Perhaps we in the USA should suggest such a system to FCC....



73 de Jim, N2EY




It's a little late, isn't it Jim?

I find it interesting that South Africa was the first one to propose such
a
system, but I don't think the ZAs adopted it in the end. I have no trouble
in principle with an alternative theory/code system, but how would you do
it? Maybe Elements 2 and 3 + 20 wpm or elements 2, 3 and 4 to get full
privileges?

It's all moot now anyway. We all know the NPRM will become the R&O.

There is one loose end, though. I read the NPRM to say that Tech+ would
become closed, so that all new Techs would have to get element 3 to get
on
HF, but others have read it that all Techs would get Tech+ privileges.
Does
anyone know which is right?


At first reading the text is confusing. However after going over it several
times, the FCC does explicitly state that Techs will have to take the simple
General exam to get HF privileges. They state that since the test is
simple, it is unwarrented to give Techs HF privileges.

Also on eHam, one of the posters states that he has called the FCC and
gotten clarification that it is indeed their intent to require Techs to
upgrade to get additional privileges. However I haven't confirmed if the
poster has or has not called.

The best thing to do would be to read it yourself several times through (it
is a bit confusing at first).

My XYL (N3MKR) is a no-code Tech, but she will be taking element 3 anyway.
Her object is to get a UK licence. As she is not a US citizen (neither am
I), the only way for her to do that short of taking the UK tests is to get
her General, which would entitle her to a UK Full licence. She isn't
prepared to learn code to do it, but then neither is she in the least
interested in getting on HF, or anything besides 2m FM as a matter of
fact.


Ok, this is confusing. If she isn't interested in anything besides 2m FM,
why is she upgrading and why is she interested in a full UK license since
you are now residents of the US. Not that there's anything wrong with this
but it doesn't make sense.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Leo wrote:
On 29 Jul 2005 19:25:49 -0700, "b.b." wrote:


wrote:
K=D8HB wrote:
While they removed the requirement for a Morse exam, note that they =
increased
the written examination passing score for the Basic License. FCC co=
uld learn
something from these guys.

Yep

What's interesting too is that new Basics can access HF two ways:

1) Pass the written with 80% or more right

2) Pass the written with less than 80% right *and* pass the Morse Code
test.

IIRC, the basic pass level is 60% (!)

Sounds a little like my old "Chinese Menu" idea.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim, are you advocating that 60% be the necessary score?

I don't think he is, Brian - Jim was surprised when I mentioned that
the pass mark was only 60% a while back. This has been fixed now - it
has been raised to 70%, effective today!

73, Leo

Thanks for being such a good sport, Leo. It's good that Jim has a
surrogate to speak for him since he can't speak for himself.

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in
break
There is one loose end, though. I read the NPRM to say that Tech+ would
become closed, so that all new Techs would have to get element 3 to get on
HF, but others have read it that all Techs would get Tech+ privileges. Does
anyone know which is right?

I read it as techs all tech end up with what amounts to what was once
called tech plus,

but anyone that claims to know what the result is likely to prove
themselves a lair

"an old friend" wrote


but anyone that claims to know what the result is likely to prove
themselves a lair


"Lair". Maybe you meant "a liar"?

In any case, more likely just "mistaken in their understanding of the proposed
rule".

73, de Hans, K0HB
~~~
We pass the word around; we ponder how the case is put by different
people, we read the poetry; we meditate over the literature; we play
the music; we change our minds; we reach an understanding. Society
evolves this way, not by shouting each other down, but by the unique
capacity of unique, individual human beings to comprehend each other.
--Lewis Thomas, The Medusa and the Snail (1979)
~~~

KXHB:

Interesting, not even a great speelcheeker would have caught lair and liar
error...

John

"KXHB" wrote in message
.net...

"an old friend" wrote


but anyone that claims to know what the result is likely to prove
themselves a lair


"Lair". Maybe you meant "a liar"?

In any case, more likely just "mistaken in their understanding of the
proposed rule".

73, de Hans, K0HB
~~~
We pass the word around; we ponder how the case is put by different
people, we read the poetry; we meditate over the literature; we play
the music; we change our minds; we reach an understanding. Society
evolves this way, not by shouting each other down, but by the unique
capacity of unique, individual human beings to comprehend each other.
--Lewis Thomas, The Medusa and the Snail (1979)
~~~

"an old friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in
break
There is one loose end, though. I read the NPRM to say that Tech+ would
become closed, so that all new Techs would have to get element 3 to get
on
HF, but others have read it that all Techs would get Tech+ privileges.
Does
anyone know which is right?

I read it as techs all tech end up with what amounts to what was once
called tech plus,

but anyone that claims to know what the result is likely to prove
themselves a lair


If you are talking about the US proposal, read the NPRM through a couple of
times. They discuss this at great length. Techs will not get Tech+
privileges. Anyone who wants to increase their privileges will have to take
a test. They specifically state that no one will get any changes in
privileges. That is also consistent with the way the paragraphs will be
reworded as shown in the appendix.

Finally, one of the posters on eHam called the FCC on this and asked for and
got clarification. He was told that Techs will not get Tech+ privileges.
It is indeed the FCC's position that anyone desiring more than their current
privileges must take the appropriate written test.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"an old friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in
break
There is one loose end, though. I read the NPRM to say that Tech+ would
become closed, so that all new Techs would have to get element 3 to get
on
HF, but others have read it that all Techs would get Tech+ privileges.
Does
anyone know which is right?

I read it as techs all tech end up with what amounts to what was once
called tech plus,

but anyone that claims to know what the result is likely to prove
themselves a lair


If you are talking about the US proposal, read the NPRM through a couple of
times. They discuss this at great length. Techs will not get Tech+
privileges. Anyone who wants to increase their privileges will have to take
a test. They specifically state that no one will get any changes in
privileges. That is also consistent with the way the paragraphs will be
reworded as shown in the appendix.

I have read it and read it and I come to the same conclusion

Finally, one of the posters on eHam called the FCC on this and asked for and
got clarification. He was told that Techs will not get Tech+ privileges.
It is indeed the FCC's position that anyone desiring more than their current
privileges must take the appropriate written test.

so what?

It is unlikely that you are going to get anyone on the phone able to
speak for the what the R&O will say before even the end of the coment
period

indeed that issue is the only mystery left,

after all we are assued that No one loses previdges as well, and if all
the langauge that is said to be delected is delected then the old tech
plus folks lose HF access

The lang is badly worded, and frankly I suspect ones reading depends on
wether you look at rules in the light all not forbidden is allowed or
all not expressly allowed is forbidden

I hope (nearly said I trsut but though better of it) the FCC will make
that one point clear in the R&O

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"an old friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
"an old friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in
break
There is one loose end, though. I read the NPRM to say that Tech+
would
become closed, so that all new Techs would have to get element 3 to
get
on
HF, but others have read it that all Techs would get Tech+ privileges.
Does
anyone know which is right?

I read it as techs all tech end up with what amounts to what was once
called tech plus,

but anyone that claims to know what the result is likely to prove
themselves a lair


If you are talking about the US proposal, read the NPRM through a couple
of
times. They discuss this at great length. Techs will not get Tech+
privileges. Anyone who wants to increase their privileges will have to
take
a test. They specifically state that no one will get any changes in
privileges. That is also consistent with the way the paragraphs will be
reworded as shown in the appendix.

I have read it and read it and I come to the same conclusion

Finally, one of the posters on eHam called the FCC on this and asked for
and
got clarification. He was told that Techs will not get Tech+ privileges.
It is indeed the FCC's position that anyone desiring more than their
current
privileges must take the appropriate written test.

so what?

It is unlikely that you are going to get anyone on the phone able to
speak for the what the R&O will say before even the end of the coment
period

indeed that issue is the only mystery left,

after all we are assued that No one loses previdges as well, and if all
the langauge that is said to be delected is delected then the old tech
plus folks lose HF access


Nope. The paragraph that gives Tech+ their HF access is unchanged. Look at
the appendix. It shows what paragraphs they are planning to change and what
the projected wording is. The Tech+ paragraph is untouched and left to
stand as is.

The lang is badly worded, and frankly I suspect ones reading depends on
wether you look at rules in the light all not forbidden is allowed or
all not expressly allowed is forbidden


Nope. It is very clear on which paragraphs they propose to change and what
the proposed wording is. The paragraph that grants Tech+ the Novice HF
privileges has no changes proposed.

I hope (nearly said I trsut but though better of it) the FCC will make
that one point clear in the R&O


The problem with the NPRM is simply its extensive discussion, which does get
rather wordy but is explicit if one reads it. The revised paragraphs for
Part 97 listed at the end of the NPRM are quite clear.

I originally was confused too but comparing the new text to the old text
clarified the situation. That comparison put the lengthy discussion into
perspective and clarified it a great deal.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE