wrote in news:1123872091.181317.216170
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

As of midnight EDT on 11 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1414

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 62

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 386 28.55%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 783 57.91%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 183 13.54%


Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, and one foreign citizen
submission. It should be noted that at least two
individuals (one for, the other against the NPRM) have
been spotted making multiple entries over following
days; all such multiple entries are considered
duplicates and relegated to Indeterminate sub-total
regardless of their opinion position.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 11 Aug 05 that would be 1352.

11 August 2005 is the 17th day of submitted Comments. A notice
about FCC 05-143 or Docket WT 05-235 has NOT YET BEEN MADE in
the Federal Register so it is unknown if these 17 days of Comments
will be accepted by the Commission for decision on any Report and
Order. Note: The Federal Register 2005 Contents page on the GPO
website has NOT had any entry for 9 Aug 05 or later as of Noon,
EDT, 12 Aug 05.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

dah nit




Just one thing, Lennie. I am a foreign citizen myself. However, I am a US
permenent resident and have a US ham licence (not only a US licence, mind
you). My comments say nothing about my citizenship. I suggest that it isn't
relevant, and it's the country of residence that is important. Of course, I
can't vote in elections, but the FCC comment process is specifically open
to anyone who cares to comment, even non-hams like you, LOL!

Voiding one comment because the person specifically said they were a
foreign citizen doesn't make much sense, as there are in fact others from
foreign citizens that simply don't say (at least one, i.e. me, but
statistically there must be others).

In fact I suspect that out of 1414 comments it's statistically likely that
there are some signed with bona fide US calls that are from foreign
citizens who have never lived in the US. You know there is US VE testing in
all the countries that have US bases, and it isn't just the military who
take the tests, but plenty of locals too. You would have to look up
everybody's address to find out who lives outside the US, and information
on citizenship of hams simply doesn't exist, so there is no way to verify
it.

73 de N3KIP

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

I am a foreign citizen myself. However, I am a US
permenent resident and have a US ham licence
(not only a US licence, mind
you). My comments say nothing about my citizenship.
I suggest that it isn't
relevant, and it's the country of residence that is important.

I disagree!

Citizenship and residence *are* relevant/important, Alun. Neither
is a prerequisite for commenting, of course, but they *are*
relevant facts.

Of course, I can't vote in elections, but the FCC comment
process is specifically open
to anyone who cares to comment, even non-hams like you, LOL!

It's interesting to note that nowhere in Len's comments does he mention
that he is not a licensed radio amateur, never has been, nor does he
intend to become one if the rules change. Yet he seeks to have FCC
disregard the comments of those already licensed, as if rules changes
will not affect them.

Most US elections are decided by who gets the most votes. The
comment process isn't like that at all. There's no requirement
that the majority of comments, or commenters, get what they
want. That was clearly demonstrated with 98-143 and again with
BPL.

Anyone with interest is welcome to comment. There's no requirement
of licensure, residency, citizenship, age, etc. In fact a comment
doesn't have to be from an individual - organizations like clubs,
manufacturers, etc., can comment as well.

There's also no universal FCC validation that a comment is actually
from the person who claims to have sent it in.

Voiding one comment because the person specifically
said they were a
foreign citizen doesn't make much sense, as there
are in fact others from
foreign citizens that simply don't say (at least one,
i.e. me, but
statistically there must be others).

There are quite a few FCC licenses issued to noncitizens who are also
nonresidents.

I see no reason to invalidate someone's comments because they are
not a citizen, or not a licensed amateur.

In fact I suspect that out of 1414 comments it's statistically likely that
there are some signed with bona fide US calls that are from
foreign
citizens who have never lived in the US. You know there is US
VE testing in
all the countries that have US bases, and it isn't just the
military who
take the tests, but plenty of locals too. You would have to
look up
everybody's address to find out who lives outside the US, and
information
on citizenship of hams simply doesn't exist, so there is no way to verify it.

Not only that, but some nonresident noncitizen FCC-licensed amateurs
use a US mailing address, so even if you did all the checking, a
nonresident noncitizen could be missed.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Just one thing, Lennie.

Are we now down to denigrative dimunutives of everyone?

I am a foreign citizen myself.

Not a dispute with me. However, an Australian citing Australian
radio regulations, with a clearly-identifiable Australian postal
address, NOT having a U.S. radio license and NOT being affected
by U.S. radio regulations is considered "foreign" in my unofficial
tally of respondents to WT Docket 05-235.

However, I am a US
permenent resident and have a US ham licence (not only a US licence, mind
you). My comments say nothing about my citizenship.

I have no dispute with that. If you have a U.S. radio license
then you are bound to U.S. radio regulations when transmitting
from U.S. territory using that callsign.

I suggest that it isn't
relevant, and it's the country of residence that is important. Of course, I
can't vote in elections, but the FCC comment process is specifically open
to anyone who cares to comment, even non-hams like you, LOL!

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Mass Media Radio
(broadcasting) Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a
Commenter is IN Mass Media radio services.

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Private Land Mobile
Radio Services' Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a
Commenter is IN Private Land Mobile radio services.

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Aviation Radio Services'
Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a Commenter is IN
Aviation radio services.

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Maritime Radio Services'
Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a Commenter is IN
Maritime radio services.

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Personal Communications
Radio Services' Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a
Commenter is IN Personal Communications radio services.

However, in HERE whenever someone's particular personal ox
is gored or merely irritated with a scratch there seems to be
a sounding of the Hue and Cry! with all the outraged and
offended forming a posse to Hang Them High! :-)

Voiding one comment because the person specifically said they were a
foreign citizen doesn't make much sense, as there are in fact others from
foreign citizens that simply don't say (at least one, i.e. me, but
statistically there must be others).

Tough snit, Alun. I am doing a private unofficial tallying of
opinions on WT Docket 05-235. If my "voiding" of ONE Australian
Commenter's Comment in this tally is offensive, then simply add
in that ONE Comment in the "appropriate" category (of your
choice) after, of course, finding it and reading it to determine
what that Commenter is saying.

In fact I suspect that out of 1414 comments it's statistically likely that
there are some signed with bona fide US calls that are from foreign
citizens who have never lived in the US.

Tough snit, Alun. I am doing a private unofficial tallying of
opinions on WT Docket 05-235. If my "voiding" of ONE Australian
Commenter's Comment in this tally is offensive, then simply add
in that ONE Comment in the "appropriate" category (of your
choice) after, of course, finding it and reading it to determine
what that Commenter is saying.

You know there is US VE testing in
all the countries that have US bases, and it isn't just the military who
take the tests, but plenty of locals too. You would have to look up
everybody's address to find out who lives outside the US, and information
on citizenship of hams simply doesn't exist, so there is no way to verify
it.

Tough snit, Alun. I am doing a private unofficial tallying of
opinions on WT Docket 05-235. If my "voiding" of ONE Australian
Commenter's Comment in this tally is offensive, then simply add
in that ONE Comment in the "appropriate" category (of your
choice) after, of course, finding it and reading it to determine
what that Commenter is saying.

As I wrote on Mark's posting, ANYONE is free to go into the FCC
ECFS and READ EVERY Comment and decide for themselves, do their
own unofficial "poll" of opinions and post that. As of midnight
EDT on 12 August 2005 there were a total of 1437 Comments on WT
Docket 05-235. [that includes the very first document there, the
NPRM of the FCC which, by its own statement, would be in the "For"
category. The entirety of the ECFS contents is "open" to ALL
who have Internet access, foreign or domestic, citizen or alien.

Let me remind you and others of one important thing that the
"clubhouse" mentality hams don't fully understand: Neither the
FCC Commissioners NOR FCC Staff involved with U.S. amateur radio
regulations are required to hold any amateur radio license grant
in order to MAKE and ENFORCE U.S. amateur radio regulations.
[see Part 1 of Title 47 C.F.R. for a comprehensive set of
regulations on what the FCC is about, how it is organized, what
it is required to do by LAW as described in the Communications
Act of 1934 and as amended in the Telecommunications Act of
1996...those Acts passed by the Congress of the United States]
The First Amendment of the United States Consitution specifically
states that CITIZENS are given the freedom to "speak" to their
government on anything they so wish. As a citizen of the United
States of America that is what I am doing, have done, will
continue to do. That is the RIGHT of ALL United States citizens
on United States LAW.

law now

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

As of midnight EDT on 12 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1438

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 62

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 390 28.34%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 797 57.92%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 189 13.74%


Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, one foreign citizen
submission, and three who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.
It should be noted that at least two individuals (one for,
the other against the NPRM) have been spotted making
multiple entries over following days; all such multiple
entries are considered duplicates and relegated to
Indeterminate sub-total regardless of their opinion position.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 12 Aug 05 that would be 1376.

12 August 2005 is the 18th day of submitted Comments. A notice
about FCC 05-143 or Docket WT 05-235 has NOT YET BEEN MADE in
the Federal Register so it is unknown if these 17 days of Comments
will be accepted by the Commission for decision on any Report and
Order. Note: The Federal Register 2005 Contents page on the GPO
website has NOT had any entry for 9 Aug 05 or later as of Noon,
EDT, 12 Aug 05.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

yes non

wrote:
Just one thing, Lennie.

Are we now down to denigrative dimunutives of everyone?

Gee, Len, Alun is just following your example. Is that wrong?

I am a foreign citizen myself.

Not a dispute with me.

Obviously it is.

However, an Australian citing Australian
radio regulations, with a clearly-identifiable Australian postal
address, NOT having a U.S. radio license and NOT being affected
by U.S. radio regulations is considered "foreign" in my unofficial
tally of respondents to WT Docket 05-235.

Why?

Suppose that Australian was considering moving to the US
and getting a US amateur radio license. Or he might want a US license
for some other reason. He would be affected by US regulations.

Except for one claim here more than 5-1/2 years ago, *you*
have not expressed any desire to obtain a US amateur radio
license. So you are no more affected by US regulations than
the Australian.

However, I am a US permenent resident and have a US ham
licence (not only a US licence, mind
you). My comments say nothing about my citizenship.

I have no dispute with that. If you have a U.S. radio license
then you are bound to U.S. radio regulations when transmitting
from U.S. territory using that callsign.

So would an Australian who is not a citizen.

I suggest that it isn't
relevant, and it's the country of residence that is important. Of course, I
can't vote in elections, but the FCC comment process is
specifically open
to anyone who cares to comment, even non-hams like you, LOL!

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Mass Media Radio
(broadcasting) Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a
Commenter is IN Mass Media radio services.

And regardless of whether a commenter is a citizen or resident
of the USA.

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Private Land Mobile
Radio Services' Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a
Commenter is IN Private Land Mobile radio services.

And regardless of whether a commenter is a citizen or resident
of the USA.

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Aviation Radio Services'
Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a Commenter is IN
Aviation radio services.

And regardless of whether a commenter is a citizen or resident
of the USA.

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Maritime Radio Services'
Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a Commenter is IN
Maritime radio services.

And regardless of whether a commenter is a citizen or resident
of the USA.

The FCC is "open" to ALL Comments on Personal Communications
Radio Services' Regulations REGARDLESS of whether or not a
Commenter is IN Personal Communications radio services.

And regardless of whether a commenter is a citizen or resident
of the USA.

However, in HERE whenever someone's particular personal ox
is gored or merely irritated with a scratch there seems to be
a sounding of the Hue and Cry! with all the outraged and
offended forming a posse to Hang Them High! :-)

Yep, that's how you behave, Len. All the time.

FCC is open to the comments of all interested parties, regardless of
age, gender, race, creed, ethnic origin, whether a commenter is a
citizen or resident of the USA, whether they are an FCC licensee or
not, etc.

You're not nearly so open to comments.

Voiding one comment because the person specifically said they were a
foreign citizen doesn't make much sense, as there are in fact others from
foreign citizens that simply don't say (at least one, i.e. me, but statistically there must be others).

Lots of others. They don't count to Len.

Tough snit, Alun. I am doing a private unofficial tallying of
opinions on WT Docket 05-235.

How is anyone to know if your "tallying" is reliable, Len?

Why should anyone trust your reading of the comments, given
your behavior here all these years?

If my "voiding" of ONE Australian
Commenter's Comment in this tally is offensive, then simply add
in that ONE Comment in the "appropriate" category (of your
choice) after, of course, finding it and reading it to determine
what that Commenter is saying.

We don't know what other massaging of the data you've done, though...

In fact I suspect that out of 1414 comments it's statistically likely that
there are some signed with bona fide US calls that are from
foreign
citizens who have never lived in the US.

It's almost a certainty.

You know there is US VE testing in
all the countries that have US bases, and it isn't just the
military who
take the tests, but plenty of locals too. You would have
to look up
everybody's address to find out who lives outside the US,
and information
on citizenship of hams simply doesn't exist, so there
is no way to verify it.

Bingo.

As I wrote on Mark's posting, ANYONE is free to go into the FCC
ECFS and READ EVERY Comment and decide for themselves, do their
own unofficial "poll" of opinions and post that.

Why should anyone bother? It's been shown that the majority
opinion is not binding on FCC. They do what they decide to
do, and majority opinion is only one small factor.

Why do *you* bother? It's clear what FCC wants to do - been
clear for years.

As of midnight
EDT on 12 August 2005 there were a total of 1437 Comments on WT
Docket 05-235. [that includes the very first document there, the
NPRM of the FCC which, by its own statement, would be in the "For"
category. The entirety of the ECFS contents is "open" to ALL
who have Internet access, foreign or domestic, citizen or alien.

Let me remind you and others of one important thing that the
"clubhouse" mentality hams

Who are they? Name some names and calls, not your usual vague
references and "denigrative dimunutives".

don't fully understand: Neither the
FCC Commissioners NOR FCC Staff involved with U.S. amateur radio
regulations are required to hold any amateur radio license grant
in order to MAKE and ENFORCE U.S. amateur radio regulations.
[see Part 1 of Title 47 C.F.R. for a comprehensive set of
regulations on what the FCC is about, how it is organized, what
it is required to do by LAW as described in the Communications
Act of 1934 and as amended in the Telecommunications Act of
1996...those Acts passed by the Congress of the United States]

I don't know a single US radio amateur who doesn't know and
understand that fact, Len. What's the big deal?

The First Amendment of the United States Consitution specifically
states that CITIZENS are given the freedom to "speak" to their
government on anything they so wish.

And the FCC extends that right to noncitizens and even nonresident
noncitizens as well. Who are you to rescind it?

As a citizen of the United
States of America that is what I am doing, have done, will
continue to do. That is the RIGHT of ALL United States citizens
on United States LAW.

well, bully for you, Len! Do you really think all your spamming
of ECFS makes one bit of difference to FCC?

Why shouldn't Alun and the unnamed Aussie have the same ability?

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

As of 12 Aug 05 (corrected on 15 Aug 05), WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1455

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 62

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 391 28.07%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 811 58.04%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 191 13.71%

Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, one foreign citizen
submission, and three who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 12 Aug 05 that would be 1393.

Note: This post revises my similar posting on 13 Aug 05 due
to the FCC adding 18 additional documents in the ECFS for
12 Aug 05 by 15 Aug 05. That is not uncommon in all dockets
and other issues open for comment.

As of about 2:30 PM EDT on 15 Aug 05, there were 129 entries
for 15 Aug 05 and those will be expected in increase up to
midnight with, possibly, additional entries for 15 Aug 05
appearing on the ECFS the next day. The scorecard will be
updated to reflect those numbers.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

yes non

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

As of midnight, EDT, 15 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1595

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 70

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 431 28.26%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 879 57.64%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 215 14.10%

Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, one foreign citizen
submission, and three who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 15 Aug 05 that would be 1525.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

may bee

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

As of 8:00 PM, EDT, 16 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1598

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 70

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 432 28.27%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 880 57.59%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 216 14.14%

Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, one foreign citizen
submission, and three who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 15 Aug 05 that would be 1528.

As of 8:00 PM EDT on 16 August 2005, there were no entries
into the ECFS indicated as received on the 16th of August.
Three additional documents were entered for 15 Aug 05 by
the FCC.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

but not

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

As of midnight, EDT, 16 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1612

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 72

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 443 28.14%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 908 57.69%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 223 14.17%

Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, one foreign citizen
submission, and three who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 16 Aug 05 that would be 1574.


Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

bet off

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

As of midnight, EDT, 17 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235
Comments on Test Element 1 Elimination/Retention a

Total 1677

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 75

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 448 27.97%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 926 57.80%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 228 14.23%

Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, one foreign citizen
submission, and three who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
midnight of 17 Aug 05 that would be 1602.


Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

not yes