John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

There are more people in prisons in the United States than
licensed Amateurs, however I fail to see the relevence to that, too.

Shall we allow those illegals to obtain Amateur licenses much the
same as some states are considering allowing illegals to obtain drivers
licenses, public assistance, etc? Perhaps we should go ahead and start
putting repeater ID's up in Spanish?

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Maybe if we got the unelmployed to spend some of their idle time
getting an Amateur license those numbers would shift???

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

Hmmmmmmmm...I know of a COUPLE Extras who are over 60, but almost
everyone I know (myself included, obviously) are well under 60. Of
course those numbers change drastically depending on local
demographics. I am sure that there are more 60+ Extras in Miami than
Nashville, for example!

4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

I believe this is an inaccurate assessment.

The simple fact that FEMA and it's agents are pumping millions of
dollars INTO Amateur Radio training programs and providing Amateur
Radio facilities at it's comm centers alone disproves the assertion.

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

Judging on the capabilites of "modern" Amateur gear (ie: Icom
IC-756ProIII, etc) I'd say this is yet another inaccuate assessment.

Just picking up even one of the most basic 2 meter HT's and
comparing what they can do as opposed to thier forebearers demonstrates
that the move continues to be a forward one.

And if the manufacturers considered us so minute, why do the
manufacturers continue to "retool" and aggressively offer even newer
devices with expanded options and functionality? That retooling costs
money, and those expenditures must be justified to stockholders.
Obviously someone thinks the expenditure is worth the return.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

We have always been in a state of flux.

As a matter of fact, I think some of the biggest fluxers I have
ever known are fight here in this forum!

7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

I refer back to my comments under Item #4 and #5. The investments
of trust and money by government, public and private agencies and
manufacturers doesn't support your contention.

Just because there aren't as many HT's hanging from beltloops as
cellphones does not negate our functionality or "worthiness".

8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

If you read some of the Amateur journals from 20, 30, even 40
years ago there have been doom-sayers and gloomers throughout.

I say that Amateur Radio today is NOT Amateur Radio of 10 years
ago, let alone of the 30's as suggested by one rather poorly informed
participant of this forum.

Nor will the Amateur Radio of 2005 resemble anything like what our
kids or their kids will experience, assuming the commercial concerns
don't get their way with our allocations.

I am a believer...

Ditto.

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ:

Yes. You are saying exactly what I am pointing out is at fault. A
handful of hams have formed a protectionist group to keep amateur licenses
to a minimum. They are quite content with the extreme low numbers of
licensees. Their arguments will all revolve around an argument that,
"A handful of hams is quite sufficient." They have chanted this insane
mantra until it actually rings with the sound of truth in their own ears,
it is only those outside this protectionist group, and those amateurs able
to view this all in a "third person" frame of mind which see the real
reality. And, of course, now the FCC has seen the light and pulled back
the covers on what has been "the elephant in the china closet" for many
decades.

However, with these dismally small numbers, protectionist amateurs are
attempting to argue the bands are crowded--this we disagree on,
vehemently! Arguments are even posed that the relatively small numbers of
hams contesting nearly brings the bands to halt, from traffic and pileups,
again we disagree on this point.

It is obvious, because of the above--and more, the
protectionist/self-serving amateurs are arguing against new licensees, we
vehemently disagree here also.

I think it quite apparent, we need drastic change and quickly. Old
amateurs are going to squeal like fat hams (pun intended) over losing
their closed little club which has been being ran at their selfish expense
to american citizens.

No one likes change but a baby with a wet diaper...

John

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 08:26:55 -0700, K4YZ wrote:


John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

There are more people in prisons in the United States than
licensed Amateurs, however I fail to see the relevence to that, too.

Shall we allow those illegals to obtain Amateur licenses much the
same as some states are considering allowing illegals to obtain drivers
licenses, public assistance, etc? Perhaps we should go ahead and start
putting repeater ID's up in Spanish?

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Maybe if we got the unelmployed to spend some of their idle time
getting an Amateur license those numbers would shift???

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

Hmmmmmmmm...I know of a COUPLE Extras who are over 60, but almost
everyone I know (myself included, obviously) are well under 60. Of
course those numbers change drastically depending on local
demographics. I am sure that there are more 60+ Extras in Miami than
Nashville, for example!

4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

I believe this is an inaccurate assessment.

The simple fact that FEMA and it's agents are pumping millions of
dollars INTO Amateur Radio training programs and providing Amateur
Radio facilities at it's comm centers alone disproves the assertion.

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

Judging on the capabilites of "modern" Amateur gear (ie: Icom
IC-756ProIII, etc) I'd say this is yet another inaccuate assessment.

Just picking up even one of the most basic 2 meter HT's and
comparing what they can do as opposed to thier forebearers demonstrates
that the move continues to be a forward one.

And if the manufacturers considered us so minute, why do the
manufacturers continue to "retool" and aggressively offer even newer
devices with expanded options and functionality? That retooling costs
money, and those expenditures must be justified to stockholders.
Obviously someone thinks the expenditure is worth the return.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

We have always been in a state of flux.

As a matter of fact, I think some of the biggest fluxers I have
ever known are fight here in this forum!

7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

I refer back to my comments under Item #4 and #5. The investments
of trust and money by government, public and private agencies and
manufacturers doesn't support your contention.

Just because there aren't as many HT's hanging from beltloops as
cellphones does not negate our functionality or "worthiness".

8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

If you read some of the Amateur journals from 20, 30, even 40
years ago there have been doom-sayers and gloomers throughout.

I say that Amateur Radio today is NOT Amateur Radio of 10 years
ago, let alone of the 30's as suggested by one rather poorly informed
participant of this forum.

Nor will the Amateur Radio of 2005 resemble anything like what our
kids or their kids will experience, assuming the commercial concerns
don't get their way with our allocations.

I am a believer...

Ditto.

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:


There are more people in prisons in the United States than
licensed Amateurs, however I fail to see the relevence to that, too.


There isn't any relevence in anything non-licensed JS says.

K4YZ wrote:
John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

There are more people in prisons in the United States than
licensed Amateurs, however I fail to see the relevence to that, too.

of course you do


Shall we allow those illegals to obtain Amateur licenses much the
same as some states are considering allowing illegals to obtain drivers
licenses, public assistance, etc? Perhaps we should go ahead and start
putting repeater ID's up in Spanish?

and here we see your paranoia, always seeing a "plot" to give away
licenses

OTOH I see nothing wrong with them having Ham licenses is otherwise
qualified, after if they got "back home" many of them could operate
legaly here, what is realy gained by excluding them

and you mean there is nowhere that they don't put repeater id also in
spanish, that would be suprising


2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Maybe if we got the unelmployed to spend some of their idle time
getting an Amateur license those numbers would shift???

as yes the unlmployed are all idle not doubt to stevie lazy too


3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

Hmmmmmmmm...I know of a COUPLE Extras who are over 60, but almost
everyone I know (myself included, obviously) are well under 60. Of
course those numbers change drastically depending on local
demographics. I am sure that there are more 60+ Extras in Miami than
Nashville, for example!

4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

I believe this is an inaccurate assessment.

The simple fact that FEMA and it's agents are pumping millions of
dollars INTO Amateur Radio training programs and providing Amateur
Radio facilities at it's comm centers alone disproves the assertion.

not at all the Us govt spend million studing the mating habits of fruit
flies

mere federal funding is NO proof of merit


5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

Judging on the capabilites of "modern" Amateur gear (ie: Icom
IC-756ProIII, etc) I'd say this is yet another inaccuate assessment.

Just picking up even one of the most basic 2 meter HT's and
comparing what they can do as opposed to thier forebearers demonstrates
that the move continues to be a forward one.

which doesn't mean they are not outdated tech etc


And if the manufacturers considered us so minute, why do the
manufacturers continue to "retool" and aggressively offer even newer
devices with expanded options and functionality? That retooling costs
money, and those expenditures must be justified to stockholders.
Obviously someone thinks the expenditure is worth the return.

because they HAVE to retool etc, or we'd stop buying radios

worth the return and a big part of the sense are different things
Stevie but you don't think very well


6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

We have always been in a state of flux.

As a matter of fact, I think some of the biggest fluxers I have
ever known are fight here in this forum!

7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

I refer back to my comments under Item #4 and #5. The investments
of trust and money by government, public and private agencies and
manufacturers doesn't support your contention.

your "logic" is flawed at best


Just because there aren't as many HT's hanging from beltloops as
cellphones does not negate our functionality or "worthiness".

no such statement was made

indeed nowhere has John said we were worthless or nonfucntional, merely
that both could be VASTY improved

your statement is part the process you often use of slowing distorting
statements and adressing you coment to the distortion


8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

If you read some of the Amateur journals from 20, 30, even 40
years ago there have been doom-sayers and gloomers throughout.

I say that Amateur Radio today is NOT Amateur Radio of 10 years
ago, let alone of the 30's as suggested by one rather poorly informed
participant of this forum.

Nor will the Amateur Radio of 2005 resemble anything like what our
kids or their kids will experience, assuming the commercial concerns
don't get their way with our allocations.

I am a believer...

Ditto.

73

Steve, K4YZ