The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now
they just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in
programming. Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to
the shop for upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their
own hardware upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and
the "old farts" that you seem to despise so.
===========================
From the above comments it is clear that the writer has no idea what's going
on in the Linux World ; with its many volunteer developers /testers , many
being from the younger generation . Ever been to a Linux or Robotics or
Hackers Fest ?

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:14:52 -0700, John Smith wrote:

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few.

You don't need the internet for that; practically any
butcher's shop will do. (Jewish and Muslim ones excepted).

73 de Jock.
--

If the Yank religious nuts believe in
intelligent creation, why George W. Bush?

Ok John, most of my ham friends are in Southern CA, and some are mobile, so
it is a heck of a struggle to copy them at times on 40 m. It would be nice
to receive a good signal up here in Calgary. My antenna is just a low
dipole, with 1.5kW, and they all seem to hear me just fine. Guess you mean
Art Bell. Have not heard him (or Wayne Green -- is he in CA?) on 75, but
have heard his splatter on 40m.

Our sked is kind of tentative, and sometimes nobody shows up. I am usually
around from about 7PM Pacific time.

73,

Frank


"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Sneaky Frank:

I often listen to "Bell's Bunch" on 3.840, once in a great while--bore
them with comment or two of mine (I make fun of AB and Wayne Greene--but
kinda like 'em both. grin) I just punched ~7168 into memory of the rig
and will take a peek...

I think you can tell, I am an easy mark, if the conversation is
provocative, interesting and civilized... maybe... that is hard to find
today, yanno, good conversation...

Thank you for the invitation, I am honored to be asked...

John

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:58:12 +0000, Frank wrote:

I hope-against-hope the good old days of radio will return, but, I would
like it to do so on new technology... some of us which remember the old
CB days (days when even, good, hams had cb rigs!--or, we made do with 10
meter equip. grin) are on ch. 38-39 LSB (27.385, 27.395) in the
central
valley of calif, we are a stagnant number, be nice to have the company.
Lot of mobiles so they escape the harassment of hams still waging the
"old war." If you mention your call, be prepared to take some
kidding...

If you ever get an opportunity--come join us! Real CB still lives in
isolated pockets!

John

You ever get on 40 m John? Often on Sunday evenings around 7168 +/-.

73,

Frank

PS I thought this was a Brit N.G.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:04:16 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now
they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop
for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own
hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old
farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email,
spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


BINGO! As Jim would say. With just a rough guess, I am surrounded by
approx. 70 or so people that would know me well enough to be inclined to
call for computer help. Of those, probably 50 percent are less than 35. Of
those, none are really what I would call "intermediate" users of the
computer. Some are above average (average being relative to the overall
community of people I am exposed to concerning computer users), but
certainly not self-sufficient on computer-ese.

I consider myself a very average computer user. I used to be right there
with technology, keeping up, etc. But, it's been about 30 years and I am
just wanting to get through each day on mine at work now...LOL At any rate,
as you mention above, Dee, I am still their immediate computer consultant
for my workgroup on spreadsheets, all the MS Office stuff, email, attaching
documents, finding things on their machines, cruising our network, etc. I
am happy to do it for them and I don't think of them with the disdain that
some seem to. I don't measure one's value by their efficacy on a computer.

I got my husband started in the computer world about 10 years ago. He's way
surpassed me now and I just ask him...LOL

Kim W5TIT

"Highland Ham" wrote in message
...
The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now
they just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in
programming. Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers
to the shop for upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing
their own hardware upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle
aged and the "old farts" that you seem to despise so.
===========================
From the above comments it is clear that the writer has no idea what's
going on in the Linux World ; with its many volunteer developers /testers
, many being from the younger generation . Ever been to a Linux or
Robotics or Hackers Fest ?

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH


A. They don't have those fests here

B. Didn't say no one is doing these things just that their heyday has come
and gone.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Kim:

I am inclined to agree with you, and yes, it is a shame companies are
sometimes forced to take inferior employees because they fail to meet the
pay scale the most capable demand. There have been moves to go that way
in my area of employment--however, this seems to becoming a moot point
as design and production slips off shore. With less and less people
paying into SSI, or paying less into SSI because of slipping salaries,
jobs disappearing--wonder if the oldsters ever sweat losing their
benefits? There may not be any by the time we get there or our children,
a crime really.

However, we should be careful, or we will look like this self-serving
bunch here who thinks themselves very special just because they possess a
hobby license and have their picture taken in front of a radio. I shudder
to think of how I would look walking around draped in the clothing of
false vanity...

Other skills besides computers are very valuable...

John

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:41:28 +0000, Kim wrote:

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:04:16 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now
they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop
for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own
hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old
farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email,
spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


BINGO! As Jim would say. With just a rough guess, I am surrounded by
approx. 70 or so people that would know me well enough to be inclined to
call for computer help. Of those, probably 50 percent are less than 35. Of
those, none are really what I would call "intermediate" users of the
computer. Some are above average (average being relative to the overall
community of people I am exposed to concerning computer users), but
certainly not self-sufficient on computer-ese.

I consider myself a very average computer user. I used to be right there
with technology, keeping up, etc. But, it's been about 30 years and I am
just wanting to get through each day on mine at work now...LOL At any rate,
as you mention above, Dee, I am still their immediate computer consultant
for my workgroup on spreadsheets, all the MS Office stuff, email, attaching
documents, finding things on their machines, cruising our network, etc. I
am happy to do it for them and I don't think of them with the disdain that
some seem to. I don't measure one's value by their efficacy on a computer.

I got my husband started in the computer world about 10 years ago. He's way
surpassed me now and I just ask him...LOL

Kim W5TIT

Bravo Chuck. Right on!

Harry C.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Bravo Chuck. Right on!

Harry C.


Oh...now *that* has my curiosity up...

Kim W5TIT

Chuck:

You ask me if I ever put ham gear together from old radios, tv's and army
surplus equip., Yes, gobs... my uncle had a chain of army surplus stores.
Most of that equip you just took to the air...

But, born right around 1950, I got in on the tail end of tubes. In the
late 60's we were already attempting to run transistors with
multi-parallel-push-pull circuits to get higher outputs on low HF. The
70's provided some decent high power transistors, in the 70's seen a
lot of hybrid equip (tube/transistor), in the 80's-90's mainly
transistors, even multi-KW linears designed around transistors.

Now I awaiting the next generation equip., you see it in commercial and
industrial use, but very rarely in amateur shacks.

Now I play with single chip wide band oscillators... buffers, amps and
finals in personal experiments, all transistor. The tube, except for
greater than 2KW linears/transmitters is pretty much dead... most new
homebrew amps I see are using the russian tubes, cheap if you get the
right source... but the filament draw on those big amps can heat a shack!

Just look at the number of hams still running the old tube equip. henry
2KW linears, drakes, heathkits, hallicrafters, gonset, johnson, etc....
although a lot of it is still in use, it isn't built anymore... some hams
just haven't adapted to building with transistors... don't ask me why...

What does spark-gap transmitters, crystal radios, regenerative, TRF, etc
have to do with today? Collectors items? Junk sold at hamfests?

Most high power stuff is custom made mosfet, or commercial adapted to
amateur use--if you are into homebrew...

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:22:02 -0700, Chuck Olson wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
news
PM:

Most of that is fictional... lots of "could have", "should have", "would
have" which it suggests though...

Computer related hardware/software is where all of the engineers are
coming from today.

John

I guess you never put together a crystal set or a 1-tube radio, or designed
your own VFO-controlled transmitter. I did, and from those days in 7th
grade, I knew what I was going to do the rest of my life. By sophomore year
in high school I learned to send and receive Morse Code at 15 WPM so I could
be sure to meet the 13WPM requirement for my Ham license. At 21, my
Engineering education was interrupted by the draft, and I joined the Navy to
become an Electronics Technician and service radar and communications
equipment for 4 years. Resuming my education, I became an Electrical
Engineer and worked in industry for the next 38 years, continuously learning
new things as they became current technology. I was never laid off or a
victim of "reduction in force" through that entire career - - because I was
a "natural" and kept my skills up to meet the needs of my employer. Ham
radio is an excellent start for anyone who has a curiosity and fascination
about electronics, be it represented by radio communications or computers or
industrial control technology.

I was inspired by Polymath's description of the good effects of ham radio on
its devotees. He should be congratulated on his explanation - - a very
readable and true to life presentation.

73, Chuck W6PKP

Dee Flint wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
news
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Absolutely. 25 or 30 years ago it was true. Then I could ask an exam question
which required writing an ISR in assembly, or even object.

Now, forget it! Such questions would never be allowed because the students
wouldn't understand the question.

My grandkids live for the computer. the blackberry, cellphone and their gadgets,
but have no idea what goes on behind the screen, despite the fact that their
mother is a specialist in advanced secure systems. The kid who used to cut my
grass thinks he is a programmer because he can copy a script from the internet -
but say things like "object", "hex", "bus" and this teenage expert looks at me
llike I have one eye in the middle of my forehead.

If I want to talk to people who build hardware, write efficient imaginative
software, and can actually do hex math I go to the QCWA breakfast; where someone
always has a new piece of homebrew microwave hardware or some neat little Unix
trick to show off.

The last QCWA convention I attended had fascinating discussions on cell phone
hacking, unix programming, software defined radio along with the old standards
of antennas, propagation, etc.

Yes, I'm an old fart who can hand key 25wpm (but doesn't anymmore because e-mail
is easier, not faster), use the net, write assembly programs and even use a
soldering iron. I even have some idea how the telephone system works and made
phone calls from my HT before the cell phone was invented. And I certainly do
not rank myself anywhere near the experimenters and explorers in Ham Radio; I'm
not that talented.

Dave
VE3HLU