From: "an_old_friend" on Wed 31 Aug 2005 07:09


Dee Flint wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


K=D8=88B wrote:
cut
No. With the dropping of Element 1, code testing can now be self taugh=
t=2E
Get on the air, and find someone who will QSO wit ya. And no anyhow.


With the dropping of the code testing, it will be even more important to
have the code practice transmissions. There will be fewer Elmers availa=
ble
to teach those wish to learn.

What? is there a part of the NPRM I missed like carting off the Code
users to some kind of death camp?

Mark, it is The End Of Amateur Radio as the morsemen know it.

Their Krystalnacht was sounded with FCC 90-53 of 15 years ago.
Their Burning of The Reichstag was FCC 99-412, the R&O for
Restructuring...5 WPM morse maximum and cutting classes in half.

The ending of code testing will not reduce the number of code using
hams.

Rumor has it that Black and Decker, Makita, and other tool makers
have begun development of a device to remove code keys from cold,
dead fingers, to be sold to morticians.

Time may do that though the actions of the grim reaper and the failure
of Code users to recruit others to replace them, but I doubt that will
kill CW USE or learning of the mode

Morse will never die as long as there are space-faring aliens
who will invade Terra but counter-attacks will be coordinated
by Mighty Macho Morsemen working secret (from aliens) morse code!

Further with computers and programs in existance today any one that
wishes to make the attempt to learn Morse Code has the tools to do so

Oh! The Ideological Conflict! Digital machinery of a very
complex nature to TEACH their "most simplest, effective, low-
power, basic communications skill!"

Woe to the Morsemen! Let their Tennysons to be exclaim in
memoriam, "Look upon my [code] works, ye mighty, and despair!"

BEGIN QUOTE
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


KØHB wrote:
cut
No. With the dropping of Element 1, code testing can now be self taught.
Get on the air, and find someone who will QSO wit ya. And no anyhow.


With the dropping of the code testing, it will be even more important to
have the code practice transmissions. There will be fewer Elmers
available
to teach those wish to learn.

What? is there a part of the NPRM I missed like carting off the Code
users to some kind of death camp?

The ending of code testing will not reduce the number of code using
hams.

Time may do that though the actions of the grim reaper and the failure
of Code users to recruit others to replace them, but I doubt that will
kill CW USE or learning of the mode

Further with computers and programs in existance today any one that
wishes to make the attempt to learn Morse Code has the tools to do so

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
END QUOTE

We could easily become short of code elmers as I know a number of people who
taught it only out of a sense of duty to the incoming amateurs.

There will of course be people who continue to learn it and use it.

However what we will lose are those people who choose to never try it but
would like it if they did. Some will fall prey to the "obsolete" argument.
Others will think that it is "too hard" and so on.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"N9OGL" wrote in message
oups.com...
No your comparison is not valid. In the case of W1AW & K1MAN, the point
is
that one adheres to the rules as they exist at this time and the other
does
not. If you study the "history" of amateur radio, those rules were
crafted
to allow W1AW to do exactly what it was doing at the time and they adhere
to
those same requirements today. If K1MAN adhered to those rules, it would
not be possible to stop him. But he chose not too. If you think W1AW
ought
to go too, then work to change the rules.

The problem is the rules are very vague. There is a thin line between
broadcasting and information bulletins but here is a list of things
K1MAN SHOULD of done.

1. Make sure the frequency wasn't in uses. If the frequency was in use
then he should of moved to a different fequency.
2. Stay at the control point while the transmission was going on
3. Don't avertise or talk about his website.

If he would of done this he would not be in the trouble he's in now.

Todd N9OGL


OH MY GAWD !!!!!!! I actually AGREE with the TOAD.

Dan/W4NTI

Dee Flint wrote:
BEGIN QUOTE
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


K=D8HB wrote:
cut
No. With the dropping of Element 1, code testing can now be self taug=
ht.
Get on the air, and find someone who will QSO wit ya. And no anyhow.


With the dropping of the code testing, it will be even more important to
have the code practice transmissions. There will be fewer Elmers
available
to teach those wish to learn.

What? is there a part of the NPRM I missed like carting off the Code
users to some kind of death camp?

The ending of code testing will not reduce the number of code using
hams.

Time may do that though the actions of the grim reaper and the failure
of Code users to recruit others to replace them, but I doubt that will
kill CW USE or learning of the mode

Further with computers and programs in existance today any one that
wishes to make the attempt to learn Morse Code has the tools to do so

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
END QUOTE

We could easily become short of code elmers as I know a number of people =
who
taught it only out of a sense of duty to the incoming amateurs.

Well again this says a lot about the mode if it is truely that
vulernable

But when the student is ready the teacher will appear.


There will of course be people who continue to learn it and use it.

However what we will lose are those people who choose to never try it but
would like it if they did. Some will fall prey to the "obsolete" argumen=
t=2E
Others will think that it is "too hard" and so on.

and you will stop losing those that are put off by by having to learn
it, but the ARS is not a Morse Code welfare system, it never should
have been but it certainly ends here

Morse Code will simply have to compete on a level feild rather than one
in which it has built advantage

=20
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:

KØHB wrote:


"Michael Coslo" wrote

I do not believe that one way transmissions should be legal on the amateur
bands.

Period.


No bulletins about hurricane Katrina and communications
emergency activations?

Not unless it is part of an emergency net, and therefore
inherently
part of two way conversations. If it is just a broadcast, turn on Fox News or CNN.


Fox News and CNN don't seem to cover the situation in the detail
needed by those in the affected area.


No code practice sessions?

No. With the dropping of Element 1, code testing can
now be self taught.


??

It's always been possible for code to be self-taught.
That's how I learned - listening to hams on 80 meters.
With a homebrew two-tube regenerative receiver and a wire
out to the crab apple tree.


Get on the air, and find someone who will QSO wit ya. And no
anyhow.


If someone wants to learn Morse Code in order to actually
*use* the mode, rather than just to pass the test, being
able to listen to real live ham stations is the best way
to learn. Code practice like W1AW is predictable, dependable,
high quality and of known speed.

Is there no room on the bands for a few hours of Morse Code
practice?


No remote control of satellites?


That is part of establishing (or cutting off) two way
communications


The first amateur radio satellite, launched more than 40
years ago, only carried a transmitter. It sent some basic
telemetry. Under your rules it would not have been allowed.


No remote control of model airplanes?

Is that us?


Yes.


No remote control of repeaters?

That is part of establishing (or cutting off) two way
communications.


Sounds like bafflegab to me. If the repeater sticks on and I
send a shutdown command, and the repeater goes dead, that's
one way.

No telemetry from satellites?

That is part of establishing (or cutting off) two way
communications.


Only if the satellite is capable of two way. See Oscar 1,
above.

No propagation beacons?

No. Try calling CQ! ;^)


The beacons are useful because they are a known quantity.


No APRS? (Not even in balloons?)

That is part of a two way system. (balloons)


Not necessarily.


I must confess that I don't know enough about ground based
APRS to make
an informed judgment.


No auxiliary links between remote elements of a repeater
system?

Still part of two way comms.


Bafflegab.

No................

"Period"

There is a big difference between what happens when
a repeater or
satellite is used, and when someone starts yappin
or beepin with no
intention of getting a reply.


So it's really all about *intent*, not about two-way
or one-way communications.

That much I can agree with!

The determination is made by the litmus test of whether or not the signals are used in two way transmissions or not.


Why?

What's wrong with beacons? Radio control? Code practice?
Telecommand and telemetry?

Seems the "no one way" stuff would really cut out a lot
of good things from the ARS, for no good reason.

btw, the pactor robots are not one-way devices - they are trying to
carry out two-way comms, right?

73 de Jim N2EY


OKAY! I give up!

One way transmissions are okay! they are a great thing for amateur
radio, and I was a hopelessly reactionary for even suggesting that they
weren't. I apologize for the transgression.

I'm now on record that I accept and encourage one way transmissions
however you may define them.

We need more of them.


- Mike KB3EIA -

N9OGL wrote:
No your comparison is not valid. In the case of W1AW & K1MAN, the point is
that one adheres to the rules as they exist at this time and the other does
not. If you study the "history" of amateur radio, those rules were crafted
to allow W1AW to do exactly what it was doing at the time and they adhere to
those same requirements today. If K1MAN adhered to those rules, it would
not be possible to stop him. But he chose not too. If you think W1AW ought
to go too, then work to change the rules.


The problem is the rules are very vague. There is a thin line between
broadcasting and information bulletins but here is a list of things
K1MAN SHOULD of done.

1. Make sure the frequency wasn't in uses. If the frequency was in use
then he should of moved to a different fequency.
2. Stay at the control point while the transmission was going on
3. Don't avertise or talk about his website.

If he would of done this he would not be in the trouble he's in now.


Todd, Why aren't you broadcasting your bulletins?

- mike KB3EIA -

an_old_friend wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


KØHB wrote:

cut

No. With the dropping of Element 1, code testing can now be self taught.
Get on the air, and find someone who will QSO wit ya. And no anyhow.


With the dropping of the code testing, it will be even more important to
have the code practice transmissions. There will be fewer Elmers available
to teach those wish to learn.


What? is there a part of the NPRM I missed like carting off the Code
users to some kind of death camp?

The ending of code testing will not reduce the number of code using
hams.

Time may do that though the actions of the grim reaper and the failure
of Code users to recruit others to replace them, but I doubt that will
kill CW USE or learning of the mode

Further with computers and programs in existance today any one that
wishes to make the attempt to learn Morse Code has the tools to do so

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
BEGIN QUOTE
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


KØHB wrote:

cut

No. With the dropping of Element 1, code testing can now be self taught.
Get on the air, and find someone who will QSO wit ya. And no anyhow.


With the dropping of the code testing, it will be even more important to
have the code practice transmissions. There will be fewer Elmers
available
to teach those wish to learn.


What? is there a part of the NPRM I missed like carting off the Code
users to some kind of death camp?

The ending of code testing will not reduce the number of code using
hams.

Time may do that though the actions of the grim reaper and the failure
of Code users to recruit others to replace them, but I doubt that will
kill CW USE or learning of the mode

Further with computers and programs in existance today any one that
wishes to make the attempt to learn Morse Code has the tools to do so

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

END QUOTE

We could easily become short of code elmers as I know a number of people who
taught it only out of a sense of duty to the incoming amateurs.

There will of course be people who continue to learn it and use it.

However what we will lose are those people who choose to never try it but
would like it if they did. Some will fall prey to the "obsolete" argument.
Others will think that it is "too hard" and so on.


I want to know why they took that guy who was transmitting religious
texts in Morse code off the air!

(remember, I am a reformed no one way broadcast person, forgive my new
zealotry) ;^)

I believe that that was an illegal action.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike,

I've been busy with school, my schooling is more important then Ham
Radio. I'm also in the process of starting my business. So I've been
busy with more important things.

Todd N9OGL

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
news
Dee Flint wrote:
BEGIN QUOTE
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


KØHB wrote:

cut

No. With the dropping of Element 1, code testing can now be self taught.
Get on the air, and find someone who will QSO wit ya. And no anyhow.


With the dropping of the code testing, it will be even more important to
have the code practice transmissions. There will be fewer Elmers
available
to teach those wish to learn.


What? is there a part of the NPRM I missed like carting off the Code
users to some kind of death camp?

The ending of code testing will not reduce the number of code using
hams.

Time may do that though the actions of the grim reaper and the failure
of Code users to recruit others to replace them, but I doubt that will
kill CW USE or learning of the mode

Further with computers and programs in existance today any one that
wishes to make the attempt to learn Morse Code has the tools to do so

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

END QUOTE

We could easily become short of code elmers as I know a number of people
who taught it only out of a sense of duty to the incoming amateurs.

There will of course be people who continue to learn it and use it.

However what we will lose are those people who choose to never try it but
would like it if they did. Some will fall prey to the "obsolete"
argument. Others will think that it is "too hard" and so on.


I want to know why they took that guy who was transmitting religious texts
in Morse code off the air!


They didn't believe that it was really for code practice.
But here's the biggie: Since it was a one man operation and he was
transmitting 24/7, there was no way he could properly exercise his control
operator duties.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE