John Smith wrote:
AOF:

Did I understand Dee's question correctly? Isn't what she asked, and I
paraphrase here, "Where are your rose colored glasses?"

John


IMO No what she said was "trust the ARRL they know what they are doing"
that takes more than Rose colored glasses, more like CGI imaging glasses

an_old_friend wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

N9OGL wrote:

From the FCC Rule Book: Complete Guide to the FCC Regulations Governing
Amateur Radio; edited by Norm Bliss,WA1CCQ, Published by the ARRL

Chapter 4, Page 4-2 Direct and Indirect Payment


"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operating
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the prime
directives of our serice:

Specifically:

(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;


Never? Who said "never"?


the ARRL said so

Then they are incorrect. Reading part 97, which shows specific
instances when compensation is allowable is right there in the rules.



What is compensation? How about the public service event support where
the volunteers are expected to wear a hat or t-shirt? And the sponsors
give all the volunteers that piece of clothing. Must the Hams refuse?


wearing thier unidform is more questionable but I would agree that it
certainly can be seen that way


What if the sponsors says "sorry, if you don't abide by our rules, we'll
have to do this some other way"?

Is accepting that glass of water compensation?


techinicaly yes


Better yet, during field day, I drank a lot of soda provided by some
club members. Is that compensation?


FD is a ham activity

But I was a Ham who got about 20 sodas free of charge that I wouldn't
have otherwise. Hey this years FD was around 10o degrees! 8^)


"Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service
to the public as a voluntary, noncommercial communication service,
particularly with respect providing emergency communication" (emphasis
added) [97.1(a)]


Of course.


If you club is providing communications support to the town of Needham
for a parade, you cannot accept their offer of payment for your work.
You are volunteers, providing a community service on a non-commercial
basis, period

No money should ever change hands.



You should never accept anything for your Amateur Radio operating.
The FCC prohibits operation of an amateur station "for hire, or
material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised"
[97.113(a)(2)] This includes direct payment (money, goods, food, and so
on) and indirect payment (publicity, advertising, and so on)."

What if one of the people in that parade gives you a ride home? We get


techinaly yes


thank you letters all the time, and mentioned in these groups
newsletters. Is this in violation?


not if we don't ask for them


What you are trying to do is hyper-interpret the rules. They aren't
made for what you are trying to do. They are made to keep people from
being paid for their volunteer work. This means money or goods changing
hands. It means advertising your business through your radio activities.
It doesn't mean me using my own vehicle and gas to get around the parade
in 100 degree heat, and getting a bottle of water from them.

But I can see it now.......

Dave works out of band French Amateurs, and I accepted a bottle of
water at a public service event. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

N9OGL wrote:

From the FCC Rule Book: Complete Guide to the FCC Regulations Governing
Amateur Radio; edited by Norm Bliss,WA1CCQ, Published by the ARRL

Chapter 4, Page 4-2 Direct and Indirect Payment


"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operating
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the prime
directives of our serice:

Specifically:

(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;


Never? Who said "never"?


the ARRL said so

Then they are incorrect. Reading part 97, which shows specific
instances when compensation is allowable is right there in the rules.

well if they are incorrect there and they may be then they being very
strange in endorsing it now


cut

"Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service
to the public as a voluntary, noncommercial communication service,
particularly with respect providing emergency communication" (emphasis
added) [97.1(a)]


Of course.


If you club is providing communications support to the town of Needham
for a parade, you cannot accept their offer of payment for your work.
You are volunteers, providing a community service on a non-commercial
basis, period

No money should ever change hands.



You should never accept anything for your Amateur Radio operating.
The FCC prohibits operation of an amateur station "for hire, or
material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised"
[97.113(a)(2)] This includes direct payment (money, goods, food, and so
on) and indirect payment (publicity, advertising, and so on)."

What if one of the people in that parade gives you a ride home? We get


techinaly yes


thank you letters all the time, and mentioned in these groups
newsletters. Is this in violation?


not if we don't ask for them


What you are trying to do is hyper-interpret the rules. They aren't
made for what you are trying to do. They are made to keep people from
being paid for their volunteer work. This means money or goods changing
hands. It means advertising your business through your radio activities.
It doesn't mean me using my own vehicle and gas to get around the parade
in 100 degree heat, and getting a bottle of water from them.

I agree the rules are made for this occasion like many other rules in
DHS, FEMA, etc many rules are showing just how out of touch the planing
of the goverment is with needs of the people

I find it suspious that the ARRL is taking part in this when they have
published and pusshed the opinion that this ilegal for years

I can remeber the Former Central Divison Director (can't remeber his
name but he was from Springfield IL lecutureing some of us on the
repeater when we were discussing this subject, and then showing up at
the Ham club meeting to make sure we understood that that even that
soda is techicaly illegal

Major flip flop

But I can see it now.......

Dave works out of band French Amateurs, and I accepted a bottle of
water at a public service event. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

N9OGL wrote:

From the FCC Rule Book: Complete Guide to the FCC Regulations Governing
Amateur Radio; edited by Norm Bliss,WA1CCQ, Published by the ARRL

Chapter 4, Page 4-2 Direct and Indirect Payment


"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operating
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the prime
directives of our serice:

Specifically:

(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;


Never? Who said "never"?


the ARRL said so

Then they are incorrect. Reading part 97, which shows specific
instances when compensation is allowable is right there in the rules.



What is compensation? How about the public service event support where
the volunteers are expected to wear a hat or t-shirt? And the sponsors
give all the volunteers that piece of clothing. Must the Hams refuse?


wearing thier unidform is more questionable but I would agree that it
certainly can be seen that way


What if the sponsors says "sorry, if you don't abide by our rules, we'll
have to do this some other way"?

Is accepting that glass of water compensation?


techinicaly yes


Better yet, during field day, I drank a lot of soda provided by some
club members. Is that compensation?


FD is a ham activity

But I was a Ham who got about 20 sodas free of charge that I wouldn't
have otherwise. Hey this years FD was around 10o degrees! 8^)


"Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service
to the public as a voluntary, noncommercial communication service,
particularly with respect providing emergency communication" (emphasis
added) [97.1(a)]


Of course.


If you club is providing communications support to the town of Needham
for a parade, you cannot accept their offer of payment for your work.
You are volunteers, providing a community service on a non-commercial
basis, period

No money should ever change hands.



You should never accept anything for your Amateur Radio operating.
The FCC prohibits operation of an amateur station "for hire, or
material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised"
[97.113(a)(2)] This includes direct payment (money, goods, food, and so
on) and indirect payment (publicity, advertising, and so on)."

What if one of the people in that parade gives you a ride home? We get


techinaly yes


thank you letters all the time, and mentioned in these groups
newsletters. Is this in violation?


not if we don't ask for them


What you are trying to do is hyper-interpret the rules. They aren't
made for what you are trying to do. They are made to keep people from
being paid for their volunteer work. This means money or goods changing
hands. It means advertising your business through your radio activities.
It doesn't mean me using my own vehicle and gas to get around the parade
in 100 degree heat, and getting a bottle of water from them.

I agree the rules are not set up for this just like FEMA and DHS and
other set of rules are not set up for this mess (katrina)

I don't agree with the rules as written but they are the rules

But I can see it now.......

Dave works out of band French Amateurs, and I accepted a bottle of
water at a public service event. 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

- Mike KB3EIA -

an_old_friend wrote:
wrote:
K=D8HB wrote:
"N9OGL" wrote

"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operati=
ng
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the pri=
me
directives of our serice:

I understand your concern, but the grant does not provide payment for=
operating;
it provides reimbursement for expenses.

My radios are expenses.

as are My drill bits For punching hole in the walls

A Better set of rules would allow some reasonable comp, and I would
support it but that isn't the rules NOW

People have been paying to have their 2M and 440 transmissions repeated
for years, and all the OFs here are good with it. None are asking for
a rules change.

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mike Coslo wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
I had always thought it was expressly forbidden to accept any
compensation for our activiites as Hams, the correctness of that
rule
being a another matter


Under certain circumstances it is.

We're talking about being reimbursed for reasonable expenses here. The
personal cost of say a week on location in a disaster area is
significant. Air travel, hotel and food adds up pretty quickly. And as
Ham radio becomes more integrated into the disaster response system,
we
will be compensated like the rest of the responders.

Perhaps that will be one of those certain circumstances?

It should be but this amounts to turning the rules upside down over
night

The rules should be rewritten so as to deal with such things but the
rules currently forbid it

wicking at the rules at some point, is likely the reason why some hams
(like K1MAN) have developed views and actions that so many Ham
disaprove of

I fully support changing the rules, writing new ones to deal with such
things. I would even support this if it came with words like" we are
aware this may be considered a violation of the rules, but the ARRL
thinks in this case we must act, and then we will seek to work with the
FCC to write rules that permit reasonable compsation for thier
expenses" or word to that effect

as it is is looks like graft and corupportion

It only looks like that to people who look at the worst possible
interpretation rather than the best. Most of us DON'T look at it that
way.

Those notes are from the ARRL who have boasted they take a more liberal
view than the FCC

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


It seems like a simple statement rather than a boast.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

wrote:
KØHB wrote:

"N9OGL" wrote


"You must never accept any money or other consideration for operating
your station [97.113(a)(2)]. this is consistent with one of the prime
directives of our serice:

I understand your concern, but the grant does not provide payment for operating;
it provides reimbursement for expenses.


My radios are expenses.


You might be able to make a case for that if you purchased them for
emergency use, and only used them for Emergency use.

Expect a challenge, tho'

- Mike KB3EIA -

"N9OGL" wrote in message
oups.com...
NEWINGTON, CT, Sep 2, 2005--The Corporation for National and Community
Service (CNCS) will provide a $100,000 grant supplement to ARRL to
support Amateur Radio's emergency communication operators in states
affected by Hurricane Katrina.

Isn't that nice....

"For the first time in ARRL history, we will be able to reimburse some
of the expenses that hams incur in response to a disaster," she said.

Obviously this woman don't know just how cheap hams
can be. They better have a great accounting system on hand
and/or have the radios nailed down and/or etched with
property and S/N tags else their gonna be up for sale on
e-Bay in a few months!

"We only wish that we could justify an expense reimbursement program
like this every time Amateur Radio Emergency Service volunteers are
called upon to help in a disaster or emergency, sometimes placing
themselves in harm's way."

Just put a big truck well stocked with *free* coffee and doughnuts
and it will attract them like iron filings to an alinco magnet.

(Been listening to 75M between all the traffic nets at night. Sounds like
the musings in an all-white redneck bar from one end of the band to the
other. How amusing and expected)

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Smith wrote:
AOF:

Did I understand Dee's question correctly? Isn't what she asked, and I
paraphrase here, "Where are your rose colored glasses?"

John


IMO No what she said was "trust the ARRL they know what they are doing"
that takes more than Rose colored glasses, more like CGI imaging glasses


Not at all. I read the ARRL statement and the FCC rules. I happen to agree
that there is enough flexibility to allow meeting the travel expenses, food
expenses for those who are going down. There is no intent to "make a buck".

My point was that there is no reason to automatically assume that there is
an intent to do wrong.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Smith wrote:
AOF:

Did I understand Dee's question correctly? Isn't what she asked, and I
paraphrase here, "Where are your rose colored glasses?"

John


IMO No what she said was "trust the ARRL they know what they are doing"
that takes more than Rose colored glasses, more like CGI imaging glasses


Not at all. I read the ARRL statement and the FCC rules. I happen to agree
that there is enough flexibility to allow meeting the travel expenses, food
expenses for those who are going down. There is no intent to "make a buck".

My point was that there is no reason to automatically assume that there is
an intent to do wrong.

and I at least have never said there was intent. but wrong can be done
without intent but still the ARRL is flip floping on LONG held
postition without much explaination

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE