"Dee Flint" wrote

One of the elements is self training and technical knowlegde. You encourage
that by using increased privileges (spectrum and power) to get people to study
and take
additional tests.

If it were working, it would be evident on the air. But I'll encourage you to
try a little practical experiment to see if you can detect the results in the
real world.

You'll need the following materials for the experiment:

1. A reasonable sensitive receiver, hooked to a working antenna.
2. A blindfold.
3. A set of earphones.
4. No extreme hearing impairments.
5. A comfortable chair.

Seat your self at the receiver, and tune it to the TOP of a popular band with
good propagation to the USA, probably 40 or 75 meters. Don the earphones and
plug them in. Set the receiver RF gain full open and the AF gain at a
comfortable level.

Now place your blindfold over your eyes.

Slowly tune the receiver down the band. If incentive licensing is working, when
you cross over the General/Advanced boundary and again when you cross the
Advanced/Extra boundary, you should detect a noticeable increase in the
"training and technical knowlege" of the operators because of better/cleaner
signals, more sophisticated technical discussions, and other evidence of better
training and technical knowlege. If your ear does NOT detect this sort of
evidence as you tune across those boundaries, then you can conclude (as I have)
that incentive licensing is an abject failure.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Dec 7, 5:28 pm
wrote:
From: Bill Sohl on Dec 6, 6:11 am
wrote in message


[snip]


You need to have REAL distinctions is Testing Material VS Priveleges
between the license classes.

There are real distinctions in the tested material. The distinctions
in privileges are less clear.

Those distinctions do not presently exist.

Sure they do. The trouble you perceive is that they're not directly
related to the
additional privileges granted.


Why does the test material need to be directly related to the privileges
granted? It is quite common in life that they are not directly related but
is instead, something that is very desireable.

Sure. Make amateur radio a divine comedy, and study Dante.

In ham radio, that would be
spectrum and power. The goal of the FCC is, based on their comments in
various NPRMs and the goals and purpose stated in Part 97, is that hams
continue to increase their knowledge and engage in self training. So they
tie increase technical knowlegde to increase spectrum and power privileges.

Is that why the FCC gives ALL power priveleges to their ENTRY LEVEL
LICENSEES?

[snip]

I -expect- the FCC to eliminate arbitrary and redundant licensing
requirements and license classes.

To achieve that, the FCC would need to totally redefine the basis and
purpose of amateur radio. One of the elements is self training and
technical knowlegde. You encourage that by using increased privileges
(spectrum and power) to get people to study and take additional tests.

Is that why the FCC gives ALL power priveleges to their ENTRY LEVEL
LICENSEES?

I just want the FCC to start making sense.

IOW, you expect the FCC to agree with you on everything without
you having to convince them.

The FCC looks foolish for not having dealt with these issues already.

To whom? Perhaps you should tell the FCC they look foolish...

They do not look foolish when you view the tests and privileges in terms of
the basis and purpose of amateur radio.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Maybe you're right. They look ridiculous.

KØHB wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote

One of the elements is self training and technical knowlegde. You encourage
that by using increased privileges (spectrum and power) to get people to study
and take
additional tests.

If it were working, it would be evident on the air. But I'll encourage you to
try a little practical experiment to see if you can detect the results inthe
real world.

You'll need the following materials for the experiment:

1. A reasonable sensitive receiver, hooked to a working antenna.
2. A blindfold.
3. A set of earphones.
4. No extreme hearing impairments.
5. A comfortable chair.

Seat your self at the receiver, and tune it to the TOP of a popular band with
good propagation to the USA, probably 40 or 75 meters. Don the earphonesand
plug them in. Set the receiver RF gain full open and the AF gain at a
comfortable level.

Now place your blindfold over your eyes.

Slowly tune the receiver down the band. If incentive licensing is working, when
you cross over the General/Advanced boundary and again when you cross the
Advanced/Extra boundary, you should detect a noticeable increase in the
"training and technical knowlege" of the operators because of better/cleaner
signals, more sophisticated technical discussions, and other evidence of better
training and technical knowlege. If your ear does NOT detect this sort of
evidence as you tune across those boundaries, then you can conclude (as Ihave)
that incentive licensing is an abject failure.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Some people are loving you. Some people are cursing you. ;^)

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 02:44:08 GMT, Dave Heil wrote
in :

snip
You are to amateur radio
as a grand piano to a NASCAR race.

Dave K8MN


You might need to rent a few extra brain cells to understand this, but
I think you just paid Len a compliment.








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wrote

Some people are loving you. Some people are cursing you.

Naw. K0CKB says she loves me. Everyone else pretty much treats me with bemused
tolerance. I guess maybe KB9RQZ curses me, but it's hard to tell from his
farkled up language skills.

Beep beep
de Hans, K0HB

From: on Dec 14, 6:18 pm

K؈B wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote

One of the elements is self training and technical knowlegde. You encourage
that by using increased privileges (spectrum and power) to get people to study
and take additional tests.

...not to mention a snazzy callsign (obtained through Vanity
licensing) and "elite-class" playground territory. Status-title-
privileges all obtained by political lobbying to achieve the
class distinctions.


If it were working, it would be evident on the air. But I'll encourage you to
try a little practical experiment to see if you can detect the results in the
real world.

You'll need the following materials for the experiment:

1. A reasonable sensitive receiver, hooked to a working antenna.

Some don't think the Orion is "reasonable." :-)

2. A blindfold.

Why that? Can't one just close eyes?

3. A set of earphones.

Using a speaker is somehow "influencing" the test?

4. No extreme hearing impairments.

How about just a little bit?

5. A comfortable chair.

Okay...none of us can stand it?


Slowly tune the receiver down the band. If incentive licensing is working, when
you cross over the General/Advanced boundary and again when you cross the
Advanced/Extra boundary, you should detect a noticeable increase in the
"training and technical knowlege" of the operators because of better/cleaner
signals, more sophisticated technical discussions, and other evidence ofbetter
training and technical knowlege.

Very difficult to see the exact frequency boundaries
with that blindfold on...


If your ear does NOT detect this sort of
evidence as you tune across those boundaries, then you can conclude (as I have)
that incentive licensing is an abject failure.

Would the opinion thus derived be opposite if beginning
to tune from the LOWER end of "the bands?"


Some people are loving you. Some people are cursing you. ;^)

Some have L-O-V-E on one hand, H-A-T-E on the other... :-)

From: on Dec 14, 6:22 pm

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: on Tues, Dec 13 2005 4:32 pm

Jim has tatoos?

I was imagining his performances in here to be the equivalent of
James Mitchum's creepy "preacher" in an old, scary black-and-white
film released in the 1950s.

Robert Mitchum. 1954. Night of the Hunter from the novel by Davis Grubb.
The author was from up the road in Moundsville. The story is set in
this area.

Hmmmm...that explains a lot about Davie Heil's character...:-)


That character had L-O-V-E on one
hand, H-A-T-E on the other...liked to off folks that didn't
believe in him.

Believing in him had nothing to do with it. He killed prostitutes and
dancers because he thought they were evil and he killed widows for their
money. The guy wasn't even a real preacher.

I am imagining Davie Heil with C-O-D-E on one hand, T-E-S-T on
the other. :-)

Running around killing the NCTA because he thinks they were evil.

Sounds VERY familiar! :-)


Did they ever catch him, or is he still running around the hills of
Moundsville?

Was he a ham preacher?

He is apparently of the undead, this time inhabiting the corpus
of a corpulent K8 ham?

"Corp diem?"

KØHB wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote

One of the elements is self training and technical knowlegde. You encourage
that by using increased privileges (spectrum and power) to get people to study
and take additional tests.

If it were working, it would be evident on the air.

How would it be evident, Hans?

Can you tell a "state of the art" rig apart from a good old one that's
10, 20, 30 years
old just by its signal quality?

Can you tell my homebrew rig's signals apart from those from, say, an
IC-7800 just
by listening to them?

But I'll encourage you to
try a little practical experiment to see if you can detect the results inthe
real world.

You'll need the following materials for the experiment:

1. A reasonable sensitive receiver, hooked to a working antenna.
2. A blindfold.
3. A set of earphones.
4. No extreme hearing impairments.
5. A comfortable chair.

Seat your self at the receiver, and tune it to the TOP of a popular band with
good propagation to the USA, probably 40 or 75 meters. Don the earphonesand
plug them in. Set the receiver RF gain full open and the AF gain at a
comfortable level.

Now place your blindfold over your eyes.

Slowly tune the receiver down the band. If incentive licensing is working, when
you cross over the General/Advanced boundary and again when you cross the
Advanced/Extra boundary, you should detect a noticeable increase in the
"training and technical knowlege" of the operators because of better/cleaner
signals, more sophisticated technical discussions, and other evidence of better
training and technical knowlege.

Or maybe not. Your experiment has some real problems:

First, it assumes that hams with the various license classes stay only
in their respective subbands, in that you won't find Extras in the
Advanced and General parts, or Advanceds
in the General parts, etc. But that's not how it works.

Second, a lot of the discussions heard aren't about technical subjects.
So the sample size is gonna be kinda small.

Third, most "modern" rigs and many "older" rigs have such good signal
quality that
you can't really tell much about the operator other than s/he knows
enough not
to yell into the mike or turn the gain up too far.

If your ear does NOT detect this sort of
evidence as you tune across those boundaries, then you can conclude (as Ihave)
that incentive licensing is an abject failure.

The problem is convincing FCC. See footnote 142 in the NPRM.

73 de Jim, N2EY

btw, loved that QRQ story.

IIRC, back in the 1980s I read a somewhat-similar story in "Air &
Space"
but of course the op requesting a QRQ was in an airplane. The ground
station
was in the Mediterranean - Egypt, I think. Somewhat earlier time -
early 1950s.

Both great stories.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Dec 7, 5:28 pm
wrote:
From: Bill Sohl on Dec 6, 6:11 am
wrote in message


[snip]


Is that why the FCC gives ALL power priveleges to their ENTRY LEVEL
LICENSEES?


Entry level licensees do NOT have all power privileges. Technicians with
code are an entry level license. On HF frequencies, they are limited to 200
watts output.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"KØHB" wrote in message
k.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote

One of the elements is self training and technical knowlegde. You
encourage that by using increased privileges (spectrum and power) to get
people to study and take
additional tests.

If it were working, it would be evident on the air. But I'll encourage
you to try a little practical experiment to see if you can detect the
results in the real world.

You'll need the following materials for the experiment:

1. A reasonable sensitive receiver, hooked to a working antenna.
2. A blindfold.
3. A set of earphones.
4. No extreme hearing impairments.
5. A comfortable chair.

Seat your self at the receiver, and tune it to the TOP of a popular band
with good propagation to the USA, probably 40 or 75 meters. Don the
earphones and plug them in. Set the receiver RF gain full open and the AF
gain at a comfortable level.

Now place your blindfold over your eyes.

Slowly tune the receiver down the band. If incentive licensing is
working, when you cross over the General/Advanced boundary and again when
you cross the Advanced/Extra boundary, you should detect a noticeable
increase in the "training and technical knowlege" of the operators because
of better/cleaner signals, more sophisticated technical discussions, and
other evidence of better training and technical knowlege. If your ear
does NOT detect this sort of evidence as you tune across those boundaries,
then you can conclude (as I have) that incentive licensing is an abject
failure.

73, de Hans, K0HB

As Jim has already so ably answered, you cannot tell that sort of thing at
all. There is no way to tell whether that signal is better/cleaner since
propagation variables can impact signal quality too. There is no way to
tell if a better signal is due to better knowledge or that the particular
ham chooses to have his equipment maintained by a third party. I would
expect less sophisticated discussions in the Advanced/Extra portions simply
because the Generals may be more apt to be seeking knowledge where the
Extras may be inclined to relax.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE