Noon-Air wrote:
"yea right" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:21:48 +0000, Slow Code wrote:
If the 13 and 20 wpm CW exams came back and you had to pass the proper
code exam for your class to renew, 13 wpm for general, 20 wpm for extra,
would you renew your license?

Why would they have use slow down? I say raise it to 35 and 40wpm

They have to dumb it down so there is no child left behind.
no body isin favor of dumbing down the ARS after all no one ismaking
you behave as badly as you do

"an old freind" wrote in message
oups.com...

Noon-Air wrote:
"yea right" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:21:48 +0000, Slow Code wrote:
If the 13 and 20 wpm CW exams came back and you had to pass the proper
code exam for your class to renew, 13 wpm for general, 20 wpm for
extra,
would you renew your license?

Why would they have use slow down? I say raise it to 35 and 40wpm

They have to dumb it down so there is no child left behind.
no body isin favor of dumbing down the ARS after all no one ismaking
you behave as badly as you do


Yeah, right.....welcome to my killfile

On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 22:17:23 -0500, "Noon-Air"
wrote:

They have to dumb it down so there is no child left behind.

Except the guy who came up with that idea - he got left behind on the
short bus.

Yup, I stopped at the Advanced and then the code requirements for Extra
were lifted. So there I stopped. Might do it anyways for the extra few KC
the license grants me.



"Slow Code" wrote in message
k.net...
Phony's can ignore. This question doesn't apply to no-codes.


Nickle Generals and Extras:

If the 13 and 20 wpm CW exams came back and you had to pass the proper
code exam for your class to renew, 13 wpm for general, 20 wpm for extra,
would you renew your license?

Nickle Generals and Extras:

If the 13 and 20 wpm CW exams came back and you had to pass the proper
code exam for your class to renew, 13 wpm for general, 20 wpm for extra,
would you renew your license?

I always liked the idea of the 13/20 wpm requirements because it did push us
to greater heights of achievment.

Some want to be Doctors and some want to be rice pickers. That should not
be taken away from us. In one country I recall, it was mandated that ALL
would be rice pickers at the barrel of an AK47 by sadistic nut jobs with a
grudge against achievers. Of course the result was 2 classes: The bullies
and the rice pickers. Perhaps the bullies had little regard for anything
but rice and violence.

Mastering the code and advancing in speed requires determination and control
of ones emotional state to allow the information to flow. This is very
difficult for beligerant people to do, so they complain, bitch and cajole
rather than just doing what needed to be done. As for the technical
requirements. Not enough. Even beligerant people can learn to field strip
a rifle.

One of the greatest mistakes people make is to try to analyze and manage
things beyond their control. The ear/brain thing people are talking about
is irrelevant.

The process is there if you let it happen. Designed by The Creator. Forget
about concentration, forget about analysis. How many of you really think
about all the connecting tissues that have to be pulled in order to just
walk? Just start writing down on paper what you are hearing. Don't think
about it at all. Above all find the peace to release the anxiety of missing
a word or character and just continue. This is where the self-control comes
in. Soon you will find the errors less and less and you will be able to
fill in the missing characters and words by memory.

Find the peace of Jesus and all is yours.


wrote in message
oups.com...
Dave, you were wasting your time & effort on the ******s in here.

Dave Platt wrote:
In article et,
Slow Code wrote:

What? I ask a friendly question as to who would re-new their license
if
Code speeds were increased to what they should be and I get called a
troll. Well eat **** and die. I got a real Extra class license. You
nickle hams are really unfriendly assholes sometimes.

Well, Slow Code, I'll give you a straight (and I hope friendly) answer
to your question. I'll then give you a straight (and I hope not-
unfriendly) explanation as to why I believe people are calling you a
troll.

The first answer: well, I think I'd certainly *try* to renew my
license. My CW is distinctly rusty - I use it only rarely, and I'm
not sure I've ever managed to copy 13 WPM (let alone 20) well enough
to pass the one-minute-error-free barrier, or be able to answer the
necessary number of questions. So, it'd take a bunch of listening and
practice to reach that level.

I'm not sure I have enough time free to do it. I've got a busy life,
work full-time plus a bit, and much of my ham-radio playing time goes
into other areas of the service (I'm an ARES/RACES AEC for my city, a
mutual-aid comms responder for the county, and I've put in a huge
boatload of hours over the past couple of years helping redesign and
rebuild and debug the local hospital's repeater system). Getting
really serious about doing high-speed CW would consume a lot of time,
which would necessarily subtract from my ability to (e.g.) spend many
hours of circuit analysis and modelling and experimentation to figure
out why the fancy commercial repeaters we bought had such
lousy-sounding audio (turns out the designer had mis-used the
discriminator IC, forcing it to "clip" the signal internally, *and*
had messed up the design of the de-emphasis network.)

And, I have no assurance that I'd ever reach that level. As several
other people have commented, it's perfectly possible for people to
work, hard and honestly, at copying CW for years, and never be able to
reach the 13 WPM level. I strongly suspect that to some extent,
CW-copying is tied to certain sorts of neurological organization in
the ear/brain system - some people may be born with more potential
ability to handle high-speed CW than others. Effort or no, some
people seem unable to learn to copy CW at all, others can do so but
never become very good at it, and *many* people report hitting the "13
WPM wall" and never being able to copy reliably at rates much faster
than that.

Now, in your previous epistles on the subject, you and your nym-clone
were advocating not only requiring testing for 13 WPM (General) and 20
WPM (Extra), but also making the no-code license a one-year
nonrenewable. If that proposal were accepted, there's a strong
possibility that I'd end up being kicked off of the air the next time
my license came due... either because I was unable to push up to 13
WPM no matter how hard I tried, or because I'd devoted my time to
other aspects of ham radio and hadn't taken time to study-up.

So - that's my answer. I might end up being able to renew my license
(although probably not at the 20 WPM level), I might fail the CW test,
or I might just decide that the "old boy's club" had made it clear
that they didn't want anybody other than rabid CW operators on the
air, and decide to go do something else productive with my time.

Now - that being said - let's address why you were being called a
troll. I think it's because it's quite clear to people reading these
threads that you have a serious agenda, sir. You've made several
attempts (apparently under several posting IDs - some refer to these
as "sock puppets") to drum up support for your CW Uber Alles rules
change proposal. You've scoffed at, or simply ignored, the many
people who have pointed out that your proposed changes are 180 degrees
out of phase with the international trends (i.e. the WARC rules), and
with the FCC's publicly-stated feelings on the matter, and that your
proposals are essentially equivalent to ones which have already been
ruled out by the Powers That Be.

In short, the "what if?" question you asked is entirely hypothetical.
There's just no chance at all that the FCC would enact the sort of
CW-centric licensing rules you have proposed. Ain't gonna happen.
Your asking questions about "well, if it _did_, what would you do" is
probably part of why you're being called a troll.

Numerous people have responded to you, expressing their opinions that
your rules would decimate the ranks of amateur radio by forcing off of
the air a large percentage of today's licensed operators. Your
"friendly question" seems to be intended to try to address that
question, but you phrased your inquiry in somewhat-loaded terms, and
in a way which almost guarantees that you won't receive an accurate
and unbiased set of answers which actually represent the feelings and
opinions of this newsgroup's readers.

To sum it up, your way of presenting your agenda probably leads people
to believe that you aren't serious about debating or discussing the
issue... and that's probably another part of why you're being called a
troll.

I agree with you that the Amateur Radio Service (and hobby) benefits
greatly from being hams to like to study, learn, advance their skills,
and use what they know. That's one of the specific purposes of amateur
radio here in the U.S., and I think it's great.

I *disagree* with you that the ability to learn to copy CW at 13 - 20
WPM is, or should be, the "litmus test" which decides whether a person
is Worthy of being a ham.

Your fixation on CW is, I think, actively interfering with your
ability to support ham radio by promoting *all* aspects of technical
and operational learning. I believe that your attitude hurts ham
radio more than it helps.

That's my $0.05 worth, adjusted for inflation. Take it for what it's
worth for you.

[and, I'm sorry to say, based on your past postings I don't really
expect you to address the meat of what I've said. I expect that
you'll toss off a one- or two-liner, dismiss what I've written, and
keep on as you have been. I'd be pleasantly surprised to be wrong
about this!]

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"clfe" wrote in
:

"L. M. Rappaport" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:21:48 GMT, Slow Code wrote
(with possible editing):

Phony's can ignore. This question doesn't apply to no-codes.


Nickle Generals and Extras:

If the 13 and 20 wpm CW exams came back and you had to pass the proper
code exam for your class to renew, 13 wpm for general, 20 wpm for
extra, would you renew your license?

Yes, I would. I admit it would take a bit of practice to get back to
20 wpm, but I would do it.
--

73,
Larry W1HJF
rapp at lmr dot com

Ya know what they say, if ya don't use it - ya lose it. We seem to lose
track of more than code. Many lose track of some of the theory, formulas
and so on they've learned to get their license. There are times you
don't seem to need it, but just when you do - you stumble for it. It is
best to "try" to stay as active as you can in some aspect of radio. It
is a shame to study, test, get your license only to let it all be for
naught. Even by going through the news groups and reading the "tech"
aspects of repairing and so on, you can at least keep that part of it
alive.

Just my 2 cents.

Lou - KA3FLU


That is why I have always proposed that licenses shouldn't be
automatically renewable. When a license expires or is just about to
expire the ham must retake and pass all exam elements required for that
license class before it can be renewed again.

99% of the hams on usenet hate my proposal. They think you shouldn't have
to be proficient at anything to have a ham radio license. I think the
reason all this came about was after ham radio was dumbed down by
restructuring alot of CB'ers were able to get licensed and oppose anything
that might required you work to be proficient and valuable asset to the
service.

SC

"JB" wrote in :

Nickle Generals and Extras:

If the 13 and 20 wpm CW exams came back and you had to pass the proper
code exam for your class to renew, 13 wpm for general, 20 wpm for
extra, would you renew your license?

I always liked the idea of the 13/20 wpm requirements because it did
push us to greater heights of achievment.

Some want to be Doctors and some want to be rice pickers. That should
not be taken away from us. In one country I recall, it was mandated
that ALL would be rice pickers at the barrel of an AK47 by sadistic nut
jobs with a grudge against achievers. Of course the result was 2
classes: The bullies and the rice pickers. Perhaps the bullies had
little regard for anything but rice and violence.

Mastering the code and advancing in speed requires determination and
control of ones emotional state to allow the information to flow. This
is very difficult for beligerant people to do, so they complain, bitch
and cajole rather than just doing what needed to be done. As for the
technical requirements. Not enough. Even beligerant people can learn
to field strip a rifle.




Did rice production increase?

sc

" wrote in
oups.com:

Dave, you were wasting your time & effort on the ******s in here.

Dave Platt wrote:
In article et,
Slow Code wrote:

What? I ask a friendly question as to who would re-new their license
if Code speeds were increased to what they should be and I get called
a troll. Well eat **** and die. I got a real Extra class license.
You nickle hams are really unfriendly assholes sometimes.

Well, Slow Code, I'll give you a straight (and I hope friendly) answer
to your question. I'll then give you a straight (and I hope not-
unfriendly) explanation as to why I believe people are calling you a
troll.

The first answer: well, I think I'd certainly *try* to renew my
license. My CW is distinctly rusty - I use it only rarely, and I'm
not sure I've ever managed to copy 13 WPM (let alone 20) well enough
to pass the one-minute-error-free barrier, or be able to answer the
necessary number of questions. So, it'd take a bunch of listening and
practice to reach that level.

I'm not sure I have enough time free to do it. I've got a busy life,
work full-time plus a bit, and much of my ham-radio playing time goes
into other areas of the service (I'm an ARES/RACES AEC for my city, a
mutual-aid comms responder for the county, and I've put in a huge
boatload of hours over the past couple of years helping redesign and
rebuild and debug the local hospital's repeater system). Getting
really serious about doing high-speed CW would consume a lot of time,
which would necessarily subtract from my ability to (e.g.) spend many
hours of circuit analysis and modelling and experimentation to figure
out why the fancy commercial repeaters we bought had such
lousy-sounding audio (turns out the designer had mis-used the
discriminator IC, forcing it to "clip" the signal internally, *and*
had messed up the design of the de-emphasis network.)

And, I have no assurance that I'd ever reach that level. As several
other people have commented, it's perfectly possible for people to
work, hard and honestly, at copying CW for years, and never be able to
reach the 13 WPM level. I strongly suspect that to some extent,
CW-copying is tied to certain sorts of neurological organization in
the ear/brain system - some people may be born with more potential
ability to handle high-speed CW than others. Effort or no, some
people seem unable to learn to copy CW at all, others can do so but
never become very good at it, and *many* people report hitting the "13
WPM wall" and never being able to copy reliably at rates much faster
than that.

Now, in your previous epistles on the subject, you and your nym-clone
were advocating not only requiring testing for 13 WPM (General) and 20
WPM (Extra), but also making the no-code license a one-year
nonrenewable. If that proposal were accepted, there's a strong
possibility that I'd end up being kicked off of the air the next time
my license came due... either because I was unable to push up to 13
WPM no matter how hard I tried, or because I'd devoted my time to
other aspects of ham radio and hadn't taken time to study-up.

So - that's my answer. I might end up being able to renew my license
(although probably not at the 20 WPM level), I might fail the CW test,
or I might just decide that the "old boy's club" had made it clear
that they didn't want anybody other than rabid CW operators on the
air, and decide to go do something else productive with my time.

Now - that being said - let's address why you were being called a
troll. I think it's because it's quite clear to people reading these
threads that you have a serious agenda, sir. You've made several
attempts (apparently under several posting IDs - some refer to these
as "sock puppets") to drum up support for your CW Uber Alles rules
change proposal. You've scoffed at, or simply ignored, the many
people who have pointed out that your proposed changes are 180 degrees
out of phase with the international trends (i.e. the WARC rules), and
with the FCC's publicly-stated feelings on the matter, and that your
proposals are essentially equivalent to ones which have already been
ruled out by the Powers That Be.

In short, the "what if?" question you asked is entirely hypothetical.
There's just no chance at all that the FCC would enact the sort of
CW-centric licensing rules you have proposed. Ain't gonna happen.
Your asking questions about "well, if it _did_, what would you do" is
probably part of why you're being called a troll.

Numerous people have responded to you, expressing their opinions that
your rules would decimate the ranks of amateur radio by forcing off of
the air a large percentage of today's licensed operators. Your
"friendly question" seems to be intended to try to address that
question, but you phrased your inquiry in somewhat-loaded terms, and
in a way which almost guarantees that you won't receive an accurate
and unbiased set of answers which actually represent the feelings and
opinions of this newsgroup's readers.

To sum it up, your way of presenting your agenda probably leads people
to believe that you aren't serious about debating or discussing the
issue... and that's probably another part of why you're being called a
troll.

I agree with you that the Amateur Radio Service (and hobby) benefits
greatly from being hams to like to study, learn, advance their skills,
and use what they know. That's one of the specific purposes of amateur
radio here in the U.S., and I think it's great.

I *disagree* with you that the ability to learn to copy CW at 13 - 20
WPM is, or should be, the "litmus test" which decides whether a person
is Worthy of being a ham.

Your fixation on CW is, I think, actively interfering with your
ability to support ham radio by promoting *all* aspects of technical
and operational learning. I believe that your attitude hurts ham
radio more than it helps.

That's my $0.05 worth, adjusted for inflation. Take it for what it's
worth for you.



I know you're right.

Hams just want to be appliance operators these days and they don't want
license exams that will interfere with them getting to those appliances
even though it means being less worthy. I don't see anyone modernizing
like everyone says is happening. They just get their licenses and grab a
microphone. What percentage of hams have a computer connected to a
radio? Probably less than 30%. Hams don't want to modernize. Guess we
just have live with inferior operators on the bands from here on out.
Then again, maybe hams shouldn't be required to be knowledgable or have
skills. Requiring skill and knowledge is too old skool. Everything must
be outcome based these days, even licensing. It ain't like we have to
help out in emergencies or anything. Thanks Dave, I hadn't thought about
it like that before.

73'SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

sc

Slow Code wrote:
"clfe" wrote in
:



That is why I have always proposed that licenses shouldn't be
automatically renewable. When a license expires or is just about to
expire the ham must retake and pass all exam elements required for that
license class before it can be renewed again.
not that bad an idea it is just the rest of your **** that would kill
off the ars