"exray" wrote in message
...

From my perspective the biggest stumbling block to any sort of national
health care program is the cost of the services themselves. A national
"insurance" validates an already 'too expensive' medical system and I
can't see that as workable. On the other hand I see no reason why the
gubmint cannot become involved with providing direct services for the
less fortunate. That may sound socialistic but at least is the humane
thing to do. If they can get that obligation functional then maybe it
can be expanded accordingly as needed.

Indeed, the cost of medical services is the fundamental problem. At the end
of WWII, businesses began giving their employees free or low-cost medical
insurance, because medical treatment was (then) relatively cheap. It no
longer is.

The issue with all legislation is whether it works the way it's supposed to,
and does not produce unintended effects. We forget that we live in a world
governed almost solely by economics * (the production & exchange of goods &
services), and laws unavoidably interact with our economic system, whether
or not we "intend" them to. This is one of the reasons it's essentially
impossible to get rid of poverty, because poverty benefits the wealthy.

* This was not true before the invention of agriculture and the ability of
people to produce more food than they needed.

"jakdedert" wrote in message
news
Add to that the fact that lack of access to quality health care
is in itself a major cause of poverty. In addition, paying for a
single health issue has caused many formerly solvent individuals
and families to slip below the poverty level.

A _major_ cause? I don't think so.

hifi-tek wrote:

The biggest problem with health insurance in general, is that the
poorest people, who can least afford it, are the very ones who need
it the most. Because of ignorance, lifestyle choices, attitude, etc.
the poorest sector of the population is the one you most see
frequenting the ER departments at hospitals.

Certainly those factors apply, but the other factor you overlooked is
that they are just, well, poor. -Somebody- has to ask if "you want fries
with that" or make the beds at the Holiday Inn -- and usually those jobs
don't come with a good health care program. It's just a fact of our
society; we can't -all- be highly paid, PhD rocket scientists --
somebody has to shovel the ****.

There is no solution to this dilemma except to have the upper middle
class and the rich help subsidize health care for the poor.

....and we ARE subsidizing health care for the poor. Why do you think we
keep hearing about the twenty dollar Band-Aid(tm)? We complain when we
find that on our bill, but it's really part of the 'hidden' subsidy.

A BIG reason health care is so expensive is that as more and more people
get 'downsized' or lose their well-paying American manufacturing job to
Mr. Wong in China, the number of people requiring to be subsidized just
keeps growing and growing.

As a society, we have two choices: when they come to the ER, we can
provide (subsidized) treatment or refuse treatment and put them out on
the curb to die. Fortunately (and so far), we have chosen the former.

"Carter" wrote in message
...
As a society, we have two choices: when they come to the ER, we can
provide (subsidized) treatment or refuse treatment and put them out on the
curb to die. Fortunately (and so far), we have chosen the former.

Thusfar... for the most part. There have been highly publicized stories of
hospitals doing precisely that to the homeless.

"jakdedert" wrote in message
news
Add to that the fact that lack of access to quality health care
is in itself a major cause of poverty. In addition, paying for a
single health issue has caused many formerly solvent individuals
and families to slip below the poverty level.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

A _major_ cause? I don't think so.

Maybe we are just playing semantics with the word "major", but I would
respectfully suggest you look up the number of people in the last 10 to
15 years that have been 'rightsized', 'downsized' or otherwise lost
their job and benefits. It is in the *millions*. Do you think that is
"major"?

For you to decide.

"Carter" wrote in message
...

"jakdedert" wrote in message
news

Add to that the fact that lack of access to quality health care
is in itself a major cause of poverty. In addition, paying for a
single health issue has caused many formerly solvent individuals
and families to slip below the poverty level.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

A _major_ cause? I don't think so.

Maybe we are just playing semantics with the word "major", but
I would respectfully suggest you look up the number of people in
the last 10 to 15 years that have been 'rightsized', 'downsized' or
otherwise lost their job and benefits. It is in the *millions*. Do you
think that is "major"?

I don't know the statistics, other than that it is not uncommon.

The original statement was (see above) "a major cause of poverty". It is
unquestionably _not_ a major cause of poverty.

But if you restate it as "a major cause of people falling into poverty"
(which is something different), I would not disagree.

Everyone should receive the medical treatment they need -- this is one mark
of a "civilized" society, that places value on each individual. How this
should be achieved is the question.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
. ..
"jakdedert" wrote in message
news
Add to that the fact that lack of access to quality health care
is in itself a major cause of poverty. In addition, paying for a
single health issue has caused many formerly solvent individuals
and families to slip below the poverty level.

A _major_ cause? I don't think so.



The poulation is large enough that seeing it is hard but there are lots of
people going under over health costs that do affect things.

BH

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Is anyone still waiting for a scan of a schematic or manual that I
haven't posted? I have been unable to see out of my right eye since
Friday afternoon. of course that was my good eye. If there is anyone
still waiting for something, please let me know now. The VA still
wasn't set an appointment with the ophthalmologist, but my primary care
physician is very worried about this. If this is permanent, I won't be
able to spend much time online. I can barely see with my left eye, and
typing is almost impossible.


I spent ALL day Thursday at the Gainesville VA hospital. I managed
to take a no-show seat on the DAV shuttle from the local clinic. I was
examined by four doctors, including the head of the eye clinic. Then
they sent me to have a MRI and still have no idea what is wrong. I have
to go back on Monday for more tests and I hope it won't be another day
of being up 22.5 hours, after 2.5 hours sleep.


--
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Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming'
sheep.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Carter" wrote in message
...

"jakdedert" wrote in message
news

Add to that the fact that lack of access to quality health care
is in itself a major cause of poverty. In addition, paying for a
single health issue has caused many formerly solvent individuals
and families to slip below the poverty level.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

A _major_ cause? I don't think so.

Maybe we are just playing semantics with the word "major", but
I would respectfully suggest you look up the number of people in
the last 10 to 15 years that have been 'rightsized', 'downsized' or
otherwise lost their job and benefits. It is in the *millions*. Do you
think that is "major"?

I don't know the statistics, other than that it is not uncommon.

The original statement was (see above) "a major cause of poverty". It is
unquestionably _not_ a major cause of poverty.

But if you restate it as "a major cause of people falling into poverty"
(which is something different), I would not disagree.

Everyone should receive the medical treatment they need -- this is one
mark
of a "civilized" society, that places value on each individual. How this
should be achieved is the question.



Health care has become big business and having a great health care system is
not on their agenda. It's all about the bottom line. Lets face it, nobody
knows more about health care than the leading Cos that run it and believe
me, if they wanted to set up or even provide advice to this country on what
sort of system would work for everybody, they could. But it doesn't make
them as much money so they won't help. My wife has worked in the medical
field her whole life. She currently works for the Mayo Clinic here in MN.
There's so much over charging in this industry and it breaks the back of
many Ins programs that we all use. Greed, Greed, Greed! is what is killing
America. Everything has become so maxed out it can't work. Gas, Housing,
Medical, Ins, Phones, Milk etc... Their sucking the life out of us and the
American dream. We only have so much money and they've pilfered every
savings we ever had in any form from Social Security to help for our vets
and elderly. How long are we going to let big business and our government
rape the American people. It's time to stand up before it all collapses, if
it hasn't already!


--
Regards
B.H.
Hill Amplification
http://hillamplification.com

Brian's Radio Universe
http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/500.htm

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Is anyone still waiting for a scan of a schematic or manual that I
haven't posted? I have been unable to see out of my right eye since
Friday afternoon. of course that was my good eye. If there is anyone
still waiting for something, please let me know now. The VA still
wasn't set an appointment with the ophthalmologist, but my primary care
physician is very worried about this. If this is permanent, I won't be
able to spend much time online. I can barely see with my left eye, and
typing is almost impossible.


I spent ALL day Thursday at the Gainesville VA hospital. I managed
to take a no-show seat on the DAV shuttle from the local clinic. I was
examined by four doctors, including the head of the eye clinic. Then
they sent me to have a MRI and still have no idea what is wrong. I have
to go back on Monday for more tests and I hope it won't be another day
of being up 22.5 hours, after 2.5 hours sleep.



Good luck Michael, I hope they get that figured out for you soon.

BH