I agree Bob, and maybe we'd have better operators as a result. Considering
the waning interest in our dying hobby though, all that would probably do is
eliminate even more operators from the ranks, leading the FCC to reduce our
bands even more by selling them to the highest bidder.

Ham radio was so much better back in the late 70's, when I first became
licensed. People were polite, and the radio had a mystique to it. With the
internet and the immediate gratification that everyone seems to expect these
days, Ham Radio is undesirable; having to hunt for contacts when you can
just IM someone? Having to work for a license? Not anymore, no one wants to
put any effort into anything when they have an easier alternative.
Unfortunately, the good old days are gone, and ham radio is in the sunset of
its existence.

73,

JT
K6TP
"slow code" wrote in message
ink.net...
Bob Miller wrote in
news
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:48:49 -0500, "Tom" wrote:

My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit
in Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their
license for free over the internet.


What I did to renew mine:

Go to the FCC website. Find the section on renewing amateur licenses.
You can download form 610. What's easier, tho', just call the FCC
phone number they give you, tell them you're renewing, the next day or
so you will find form 610 and all instructions in your mailbox, free
of charge. Fill the stuff out and send it in.

The FCC may have a minor charge for renewing, I forget.

If you've changed your address since getting your license, you may
have to register the new address with the FCC before renewing. You can
do only one thing at a time on form 610, as I recall.

bob
k5qwg




Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in
their comment box, Thanks.


1-No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all
elements required for their license class.

2-The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%.

3-Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra.

4-Make the no-code license one year non-renewable.

From: Pin-medic on Fri, Aug 18 2006 10:30 am

I agree Bob, and maybe we'd have better operators as a result. Considering
the waning interest in our dying hobby though, all that would probably do is
eliminate even more operators from the ranks, leading the FCC to reduce our
bands even more by selling them to the highest bidder.

1. The FCC has NOT "reduced 'your' bands," nor is it somehow
threatening to "sell them" to anyone. Had you bothered to
look at this process of AUCTIONING certain COMMERCIAL bands
and the Congressional laws establishing it, you would have
seen that it does NOT apply to radio amateurs.

2. Since WARC-79 'you' have gotten MORE BANDS and that has
increased up to a few years ago when 'you' got the five
60m channels.

3. There doesn't seem to be any "waning interest" in USA
amateur radio considering the overall licensee numbers.
The newcomer licensees are - just managing - to keep the
licensee numbers in numeric bouyancy, almost keeping pace
with those letting their licenses lapse. See www.hamdata.
com FCC data page.

4. "Dying hobby" must be entirely subjective since there is
no real sign that amateur radio equipment and supplies
companies are closing down nor has the ARRL threatened to
dissolve their $15M per annum profit publishing business.
Since 1990 three INDEPENDENT amateur radio publications
have ceased, primarily due to lack of advertising revenue,
NOT for interest in the hobby.

Ham radio was so much better back in the late 70's, when I first became
licensed. People were polite, and the radio had a mystique to it.

I find that highly subjective, primarily in comparison to the
times of the mid-50s. Let's look at the "mystique" of the
late 1970s insofar as radio communications are concerned:

1. Communications satellites were well-established for
international video-audio relay with thousands of
circuits for voice and data. More would come in the
next three decades until the geosynchronous orbit
positions were filled before the 1990s were over.

2. HF spectrum users, the majority being commercial-
government prior to the 1970s, were LEAVING HF for more
reliable 24/7 circuit throughput IN the beginning of
the 1970s. The peak use of HF occurred during the mid-
1950s to 1960.

3. Tens of thousands of radio communications licensees
(with all their users and equipment) were ALREADY
up and communicating from low-VHF on up. That would
continue to grow in the next three decades until the
FCC and NTIA had to expand the VHF-and-up spectrum for
such radio services as PLMRS (Private Land Mobile
Radio Services), maritime radio (for private boat
owners and inland-waterway and harbor comms).

4. MILLIONS of Citizen Band radios existed, CB (on HF)
was created in 1958, two decades before the late-1970s.
Licensing of CB had been dropped and the off-shore
radio makers had established themselves in the radio
market, including CB.

5. "Radio" was KNOWN to the general public as a means to
communicate and had been known for decades. "Known"
in a sense beyond the obvious of TV and AM and FM
broadcasting and international telecasts. The public
did NOT "know" that morse code modes were used except
perhaps for watching the last of the "Westerns" on
TV and old WW2 movies.

6. In the mid-1950s the BIG communicators on HF were
already in a process of change of mode. Teleprinter
data was the overwhelming majority mode for written
communications for commercial and government users
of the ONLY long-haul comm circuits. Microwave radio
relay for both short and long distances on land had
already begun. Only the maritime world held to their
morse code modes with, rarely, voice on AM.

7. In the late 1970s 'you' already had solid-state HF
radios (transmitters barely reaching 100 W PEP) with
the beginnings of synthesized frequencies. VFOs,
now reliable and stable, were a standard feature for
frequency control. In the mid-1950s frequency control
of the then-standard tube type radios was essentially
one-crystal/one-frequency type unless one could afford
a very expensive (then) "Collins" (or equivalent)
manufactured radio.

8. The Semiconductor Era had already begun in ALL of
electronics and new techniques and methods were the
order of the day in comparison to the limitations of
tube architecture in the mid-1950s. In that regard,
there IS a "mystique."

I would state that a vast cornucopia of things were
suddenly opened by the many-plateau advances in
electronics technology, sometimes happening at a
rate of advancement that was near overwhelming.
Having been a part of the electronics industry for
53 years I not only saw it but was immersed in it,
doing it while keeping up with it.

With the
internet and the immediate gratification that everyone seems to expect these
days, Ham Radio is undesirable; having to hunt for contacts when you can
just IM someone? Having to work for a license? Not anymore, no one wants to
put any effort into anything when they have an easier alternative.

Unless there has been some "stealth" action of government
to redefine FCC rules, amateur radio has ALWAYS been considered
a non-commercial AVOCATION. It is a HOBBY without having to be
stated as such in Parts 1 and 97 of Title 47 C.F.R. There is NO
legal necessity to "WORK" for a hobby pursuit, is there?

Absolutely YES, I will opt for an "easier alternative" to
ANYTHING! When I began in Big-Time HF radio communications,
the "easier alternative" ALREADY existed in the products of
Teletype Corporation. The teleprinter had already displaced
manual morse code modes for the majority of messaging even
before WW2 (in business and government and the military).

So, if 'we' all do this 'work' thing, who is going to
give 'us' this permission to exist on the same planet as
all you extras? Would 'we' be FIRED if 'we' didn't
'work?" [delusions of Donald Trump there?]

Ah..."not enough EFFORT being put forth" by us not-licensed-
in-the-AMATEUR-radio-service? Right...some of us have been
professionals in radio and electronics for decades, WITHOUT
any morsemanship tests! Even though we've put our own time
into keeping up with radio and electronics for all those
decades (without renumeration for those efforts), that isn't
good enough for you? Here, have a [rude Italian hand gesture]

The FCC was NEVER chartered as an academic institution and
those valued [suitable for framing] licenses are NOT "grades
earned" (after all that 'work'). The job of the FCC is just
regulate, mitigate ALL civil radio in the USA. Mere 'tenure'
as a radio amateur does NOT make someone better nor does all
the snarling about "nobody wants to 'work' for their license"
change anything. You want the US amateur radio regulations
to FREEZE in those old days ways? Fine, send in your
proposal to the FCC and tell them why it should remain in
the freezer. They MUST, by law, examine ALL proposals
submitted by citizens. [I wouldn't expect that they actually
put forth an NPRM on keeping regs on ice, but they WILL
look at it]

Unfortunately, the good old days are gone, and ham radio is in the sunset of
its existence.

1. Take your sunglasses off or step out from behind the
curtains. It is a BRIGHT day with sun HIGH in the sky
for amateur radio...unless you are one of the olde-
tymers who refuse to acknowledge change.

2. There exist new medications that can alleviate depression
and, perhaps, a feeling of ennui. See your doctor about
that.

3. "The good old days are gone?" THANK GOD! I was IN those
'good old days' and am damn glad that radio and electronics
has improved, gotten easier, enabled us (except morsemen)
to do more and better things! I look FORWARD to each and
every improvement that makes things EASIER! I've already
done lots of things with lots of personal labor and I
sincerely APPRECIATE whatever labor-saving, work-saving
things that are available now.

Hey, if you WORK real hard, study real hard, maybe you can
come up with a TIME MACHINE! Yeah, right, it could take you
back to those "good old days" that you seem to like so much.
Like back to a time when "ham" was a pejorative expressed by
professional morsemen? :-)

"Rayburn" wrote in
:

Just the excuse I need to let my "CODED" extra ticket go lapse....with
stupid ****ing assholes like slow code only on the bands then who in
their right ****ing mind would want to talk to the lowlife cocksuckers?

30 wpm with ease!

RAYBURN



Will we see your equipment on eBay, or are you gonna take it
to a pawn shop?

SC

" wrote in
ups.com:

From: Pin-medic on Fri, Aug 18 2006 10:30 am

I agree Bob, and maybe we'd have better operators as a result.
Considering the waning interest in our dying hobby though, all that
would probably do is eliminate even more operators from the ranks,
leading the FCC to reduce our bands even more by selling them to the
highest bidder.

1. The FCC has NOT "reduced 'your' bands," nor is it somehow
threatening to "sell them" to anyone. Had you bothered to
look at this process of AUCTIONING certain COMMERCIAL bands
and the Congressional laws establishing it, you would have
seen that it does NOT apply to radio amateurs.

2. Since WARC-79 'you' have gotten MORE BANDS and that has
increased up to a few years ago when 'you' got the five
60m channels.

3. There doesn't seem to be any "waning interest" in USA
amateur radio considering the overall licensee numbers.
The newcomer licensees are - just managing - to keep the
licensee numbers in numeric bouyancy, almost keeping pace
with those letting their licenses lapse. See www.hamdata.
com FCC data page.

4. "Dying hobby" must be entirely subjective since there is
no real sign that amateur radio equipment and supplies
companies are closing down nor has the ARRL threatened to
dissolve their $15M per annum profit publishing business.
Since 1990 three INDEPENDENT amateur radio publications
have ceased, primarily due to lack of advertising revenue,
NOT for interest in the hobby.

Ham radio was so much better back in the late 70's, when I first became
licensed. People were polite, and the radio had a mystique to it.

I find that highly subjective, primarily in comparison to the
times of the mid-50s. Let's look at the "mystique" of the
late 1970s insofar as radio communications are concerned:

1. Communications satellites were well-established for
international video-audio relay with thousands of
circuits for voice and data. More would come in the
next three decades until the geosynchronous orbit
positions were filled before the 1990s were over.

2. HF spectrum users, the majority being commercial-
government prior to the 1970s, were LEAVING HF for more
reliable 24/7 circuit throughput IN the beginning of
the 1970s. The peak use of HF occurred during the mid-
1950s to 1960.

3. Tens of thousands of radio communications licensees
(with all their users and equipment) were ALREADY
up and communicating from low-VHF on up. That would
continue to grow in the next three decades until the
FCC and NTIA had to expand the VHF-and-up spectrum for
such radio services as PLMRS (Private Land Mobile
Radio Services), maritime radio (for private boat
owners and inland-waterway and harbor comms).

4. MILLIONS of Citizen Band radios existed, CB (on HF)
was created in 1958, two decades before the late-1970s.
Licensing of CB had been dropped and the off-shore
radio makers had established themselves in the radio
market, including CB.

5. "Radio" was KNOWN to the general public as a means to
communicate and had been known for decades. "Known"
in a sense beyond the obvious of TV and AM and FM
broadcasting and international telecasts. The public
did NOT "know" that morse code modes were used except
perhaps for watching the last of the "Westerns" on
TV and old WW2 movies.

6. In the mid-1950s the BIG communicators on HF were
already in a process of change of mode. Teleprinter
data was the overwhelming majority mode for written
communications for commercial and government users
of the ONLY long-haul comm circuits. Microwave radio
relay for both short and long distances on land had
already begun. Only the maritime world held to their
morse code modes with, rarely, voice on AM.

7. In the late 1970s 'you' already had solid-state HF
radios (transmitters barely reaching 100 W PEP) with
the beginnings of synthesized frequencies. VFOs,
now reliable and stable, were a standard feature for
frequency control. In the mid-1950s frequency control
of the then-standard tube type radios was essentially
one-crystal/one-frequency type unless one could afford
a very expensive (then) "Collins" (or equivalent)
manufactured radio.

8. The Semiconductor Era had already begun in ALL of
electronics and new techniques and methods were the
order of the day in comparison to the limitations of
tube architecture in the mid-1950s. In that regard,
there IS a "mystique."

I would state that a vast cornucopia of things were
suddenly opened by the many-plateau advances in
electronics technology, sometimes happening at a
rate of advancement that was near overwhelming.
Having been a part of the electronics industry for
53 years I not only saw it but was immersed in it,
doing it while keeping up with it.

With the
internet and the immediate gratification that everyone seems to expect
these days, Ham Radio is undesirable; having to hunt for contacts when
you can just IM someone? Having to work for a license? Not anymore, no
one wants to put any effort into anything when they have an easier
alternative.

Unless there has been some "stealth" action of government
to redefine FCC rules, amateur radio has ALWAYS been considered
a non-commercial AVOCATION. It is a HOBBY without having to be
stated as such in Parts 1 and 97 of Title 47 C.F.R. There is NO
legal necessity to "WORK" for a hobby pursuit, is there?

Absolutely YES, I will opt for an "easier alternative" to
ANYTHING! When I began in Big-Time HF radio communications,
the "easier alternative" ALREADY existed in the products of
Teletype Corporation. The teleprinter had already displaced
manual morse code modes for the majority of messaging even
before WW2 (in business and government and the military).

So, if 'we' all do this 'work' thing, who is going to
give 'us' this permission to exist on the same planet as
all you extras? Would 'we' be FIRED if 'we' didn't
'work?" [delusions of Donald Trump there?]

Ah..."not enough EFFORT being put forth" by us not-licensed-
in-the-AMATEUR-radio-service? Right...some of us have been
professionals in radio and electronics for decades, WITHOUT
any morsemanship tests! Even though we've put our own time
into keeping up with radio and electronics for all those
decades (without renumeration for those efforts), that isn't
good enough for you? Here, have a [rude Italian hand gesture]

The FCC was NEVER chartered as an academic institution and
those valued [suitable for framing] licenses are NOT "grades
earned" (after all that 'work'). The job of the FCC is just
regulate, mitigate ALL civil radio in the USA. Mere 'tenure'
as a radio amateur does NOT make someone better nor does all
the snarling about "nobody wants to 'work' for their license"
change anything. You want the US amateur radio regulations
to FREEZE in those old days ways? Fine, send in your
proposal to the FCC and tell them why it should remain in
the freezer. They MUST, by law, examine ALL proposals
submitted by citizens. [I wouldn't expect that they actually
put forth an NPRM on keeping regs on ice, but they WILL
look at it]

Unfortunately, the good old days are gone, and ham radio is in the
sunset of its existence.

1. Take your sunglasses off or step out from behind the
curtains. It is a BRIGHT day with sun HIGH in the sky
for amateur radio...unless you are one of the olde-
tymers who refuse to acknowledge change.

2. There exist new medications that can alleviate depression
and, perhaps, a feeling of ennui. See your doctor about
that.

3. "The good old days are gone?" THANK GOD! I was IN those
'good old days' and am damn glad that radio and electronics
has improved, gotten easier, enabled us (except morsemen)
to do more and better things! I look FORWARD to each and
every improvement that makes things EASIER! I've already
done lots of things with lots of personal labor and I
sincerely APPRECIATE whatever labor-saving, work-saving
things that are available now.

Hey, if you WORK real hard, study real hard, maybe you can
come up with a TIME MACHINE! Yeah, right, it could take you
back to those "good old days" that you seem to like so much.
Like back to a time when "ham" was a pejorative expressed by
professional morsemen? :-)







1: No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and
pass all elements required for their license class.

2: The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%.

3: Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra.

4: Make the no-code license one year non-renewable.



Let's take back ham radio.

73

Glen Overby wrote in
news
slow code flamed:
Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in
their comment box, Thanks.

Leave them yourself. Enter your comments with dots and dashes.

3-Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra.

Thats too whimpy. Morse code = Ham Radio, right?

Make it 20wpm for general, 30wpm for Extra.

Require extras to answer 100% on ALL questions of ALL element question
pools in on ONE sitting with no multiple choice. You're not "extra" if
you can't do that.

Stop granting type acceptance to any radio that can transmit or receive
on the extra portion of the band (just like the rule for the cell phone
frequencies). Extras should be building radios, not buying them.

4-Make the no-code license one year non-renewable.

Eliminate the no code license, wait ten years for the hobby to die, then
give 2.3ghz to WiFI, 5.7 to WiMAX and auction the rest off to the
highest bidder.

Looking forwards to working you on the 10ghz-and-up contest this
weekend, Glen


Sheeesh.

Will give it to a buddy across town.
"Slow Code" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Rayburn" wrote in
:

Just the excuse I need to let my "CODED" extra ticket go lapse....with
stupid ****ing assholes like slow code only on the bands then who in
their right ****ing mind would want to talk to the lowlife cocksuckers?

30 wpm with ease!

RAYBURN



Will we see your equipment on eBay, or are you gonna take it
to a pawn shop?

SC

Glen
Don't know if I 100% agree with your code speeds but I do thing the NO Code
should be for 1 year and none renewable.
I had to take my license in front of the FCC and not so VE who may or may
not help you out to get a license.
As I am a big VHFer I don't know how these NO Code guys are going to
understand beacons. They are all code and most at 10 ~ 20 wpm. I guess the
next thing will be, they will want all beacons either digital or voice. YUK!
Not up in the GHZ range yet but maybe some day.
73, Bill, WA0KBZ

"Slow Code" wrote in message
nk.net...
Glen Overby wrote in
news
slow code flamed:
Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in
their comment box, Thanks.

Leave them yourself. Enter your comments with dots and dashes.

3-Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra.

Thats too whimpy. Morse code = Ham Radio, right?

Make it 20wpm for general, 30wpm for Extra.

Require extras to answer 100% on ALL questions of ALL element question
pools in on ONE sitting with no multiple choice. You're not "extra" if
you can't do that.

Stop granting type acceptance to any radio that can transmit or receive
on the extra portion of the band (just like the rule for the cell phone
frequencies). Extras should be building radios, not buying them.

4-Make the no-code license one year non-renewable.

Eliminate the no code license, wait ten years for the hobby to die, then
give 2.3ghz to WiFI, 5.7 to WiMAX and auction the rest off to the
highest bidder.

Looking forwards to working you on the 10ghz-and-up contest this
weekend, Glen


Sheeesh.

Please, God, let this thread die!

In message , Allodoxaphobia
writes

Please, God, let this thread die!

A prayer often said, rarely answered.
--
Bill

From: Slow Code on Fri, Aug 18 2006 4:26 pm


" wrote in
From: Pin-medic on Fri, Aug 18 2006 10:30 am

I agree Bob, and maybe we'd have better operators as a result.
Considering the waning interest in our dying hobby though, all that
would probably do is eliminate even more operators from the ranks,
leading the FCC to reduce our bands even more by selling them to the
highest bidder.

1. The FCC has NOT "reduced 'your' bands," nor is it somehow
threatening to "sell them" to anyone. Had you bothered to
look at this process of AUCTIONING certain COMMERCIAL bands
and the Congressional laws establishing it, you would have
seen that it does NOT apply to radio amateurs.

Hey, "Slow," no comment on that?

2. Since WARC-79 'you' have gotten MORE BANDS and that has
increased up to a few years ago when 'you' got the five
60m channels.

1979 was TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO.

3. There doesn't seem to be any "waning interest" in USA
amateur radio considering the overall licensee numbers.
The newcomer licensees are - just managing - to keep the
licensee numbers in numeric bouyancy, almost keeping pace
with those letting their licenses lapse. See www.hamdata.
com FCC data page.

Still no comment, "Slow?" :-)




1: No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and
pass all elements required for their license class.

Wow...you will be REALLY popular with VEs...FCC too...

2: The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%.

Wayyyy too low. 100%! Nothing less...

3: Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra.

Wayyyy too low. 30 WPM for General, 80 WPM for Extra!

4: Make the no-code license one year non-renewable.

Make it two weeks.

It's fairly obvious you've just alienated half of your
"brotherhood"! [better armor your lead-in...]

Let's take back ham radio.

Why? Was it kidnapped? Lost along with Apollo 11 data?

BRING BACK SPARK! The very first RF transmitter in
amateur radio! Preserve the past! Honor "sparky"
tradition!


Hey, "Slow," here's a better idea: Let's get you to a
cryogenic chamber and FREEZE you and your longing for
times of your youth. You want everything FROZEN, don't
you? Cool? Cool...

Pax.