"Opus-" wrote in message
...

[snip]

Sorry, but I can say for an absolute fact that your 're wrong. It had
kept me out of ham radio and I know exactly what kind of person that I
am. And before the obligatory "lazy" word is trotted out, I have to
work for the pay cheque that buys the radio, pays the rent for the
building that the radio is in and pays for the tower that is in the
back yard. I have to work extra to pay MORE for a place where I am
allowed a tower, as opposed to less expensive digs.

Honestly, I can't believe how some pro-coders look down on no-coders
with such contempt. I was once a member of a "live steam" model
railroad club. These were larger model steam trains that ran with real
steam instead of electric power. They could be run with either propane
or coal, depending on the individual. The guys who built their
locomotives from scratch NEVER looked down on the guys who bought
theirs from a classified ad. The guys burning coal did NOT call the
propane guys "lazy". We all enjoyed a fine hobby and club meetings
were always good fun and most informative. It was great for a
mechanic, like myself, to rub shoulders with experienced retired
machinists who built these locomotives. At one of our "open houses",
which were located outdoors at the club track, my daughter took her
first steps.

Isn't ham radio supposed to be like that? Is there no camaraderie?

Yes ham radio is supposed to be camaraderie. People are supposed to help
each other. The divisiveness stems from the fact that too many no-coders
appear to want to change the requirements with no knowledge, experience, or
understanding of the requirements. In addition, most of us have experienced
people who said they could not learn code but upon questioning find that
they did not use a good training method and did not train correctly. Yet
when they decided they were tired of waiting did learn it and got their
upgrade. Then finding out how useful it was in ham pursuits were glad that
they had done it.

So far of each of the reasons that people put forth as to why they can't
learn it have been disproven by the example of other people with the same
problem having gone ahead and done it. The 5wpm level is obtainable
although some of the problem do make faster speeds a problem (constant
tinnitus may be a severe problem at 20 wpm for example). My ex-OM had 70%
hearing loss in both ears and severe tinnitus. He passed the 5wpm. I know
people with dyslexia who have passed. The blind have passed. Even the deaf
have passed using flashing lights or vibrating pads.

Do you have competitions in your model railroading activity? If you enter
that competition, you all have to follow the published rules with no
exceptions. If it is a competition for the "homebrewers", then those who
don't do so can enjoy viewing them but they cannot enter into the
competition.

Dee, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
The divisiveness stems from the fact that too many no-coders
appear to want to change the requirements with no knowledge, experience, or
understanding of the requirements.

Speaking as a ham licensed for 50+ years, I would say a
lot of the divisiveness stems from coded hams trying to
substitute Morse code skill for technical knowledge and
intelligence.

Ham#1: "I've got a PhD in RF Engineering."

Ham#2: "Who cares, I flunked out of high school but
I can do 40 wpm at Morse code. So there!"

Eliminate the code requirement and triple the difficulty
of the technical exams. Problem solved.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
t...
Dee Flint wrote:
The divisiveness stems from the fact that too many no-coders appear to
want to change the requirements with no knowledge, experience, or
understanding of the requirements.

Speaking as a ham licensed for 50+ years, I would say a
lot of the divisiveness stems from coded hams trying to
substitute Morse code skill for technical knowledge and
intelligence.

Ham#1: "I've got a PhD in RF Engineering."

Ham#2: "Who cares, I flunked out of high school but
I can do 40 wpm at Morse code. So there!"

Eliminate the code requirement and triple the difficulty
of the technical exams. Problem solved.

Nope, won't solve the problem.

The solution is to accept people as true hams that passed the exams existing
at the time they were licensed. PERIOD!!



Dee, N8UZE

What lie??

No-coders are missing a major portion of the HR experience. That is NOT a lie!
It is a fact.

Example: you can call yourself a marine two days after enlistment. But, you
become a Marine after completion of basic training! The commitment to success
through a period of trial and learning makes the Marine not the uniform.

No-coders have enlisted in the hobby. But, ...

wrote:

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 08:47:14 -0400, "Dee Flint"
wrote:


"Opus-" wrote in message
. ..

[snip]


Sorry, but I can say for an absolute fact that your 're wrong. It had
kept me out of ham radio and I know exactly what kind of person that I
am. And before the obligatory "lazy" word is trotted out, I have to
work for the pay cheque that buys the radio, pays the rent for the
building that the radio is in and pays for the tower that is in the
back yard. I have to work extra to pay MORE for a place where I am
allowed a tower, as opposed to less expensive digs.

Honestly, I can't believe how some pro-coders look down on no-coders
with such contempt. I was once a member of a "live steam" model
railroad club. These were larger model steam trains that ran with real
steam instead of electric power. They could be run with either propane
or coal, depending on the individual. The guys who built their
locomotives from scratch NEVER looked down on the guys who bought
theirs from a classified ad. The guys burning coal did NOT call the
propane guys "lazy". We all enjoyed a fine hobby and club meetings
were always good fun and most informative. It was great for a
mechanic, like myself, to rub shoulders with experienced retired
machinists who built these locomotives. At one of our "open houses",
which were located outdoors at the club track, my daughter took her
first steps.

Isn't ham radio supposed to be like that? Is there no camaraderie?

Yes ham radio is supposed to be camaraderie. People are supposed to help
each other. The divisiveness stems from the fact that too many no-coders
appear to want to change the requirements with no knowledge, experience, or
understanding of the requirements.

back to lying about the motives and knowledge of the NoCoders again
DEE
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

Dave wrote:
What lie??

No-coders are missing a major portion of the HR experience. That is NOT a lie!
It is a fact.

have you done EME or FS-ATV? or used ham radio ofor RC or enaged in
metor scater contacts

OTOH you are lying

all Nocode test persons don't use code is imlied by your statement.
Indeed I one of the stauchest nocoders have explored it. I am missing
nothing it is like the compliants I heard in my youth about membrane
keyboards it was said that you can't toauch type with em, well that
only apllies if you can touch type in the first place

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dave wrote:
What lie??

No-coders are missing a major portion of the HR experience. That is NOT a
lie!
It is a fact.

have you done EME or FS-ATV? or used ham radio ofor RC or enaged in
metor scater contacts

OTOH you are lying

all Nocode test persons don't use code is imlied by your statement.
Indeed I one of the stauchest nocoders have explored it. I am missing
nothing it is like the compliants I heard in my youth about membrane
keyboards it was said that you can't toauch type with em, well that
only apllies if you can touch type in the first place
....

Hey, Lone Ranger. I'm up on 20 meters right now. Care to join me? Oh, wait.
You can't.
You're too busy making "scater" contacts. I guess you really do talk scat.
Ho hum.

an_old_friend wrote:

Dave wrote:

What lie??

No-coders are missing a major portion of the HR experience. That is NOT a lie!
It is a fact.


have you done EME or FS-ATV? or used ham radio ofor RC or enaged in
metor scater contacts

OTOH you are lying

all Nocode test persons don't use code is imlied by your statement.
Indeed I one of the stauchest nocoders have explored it. I am missing
nothing it is like the compliants I heard in my youth about membrane
keyboards it was said that you can't toauch type with em, well that
only apllies if you can touch type in the first place



I have not experienced EME or FS-ATV or a great many other areas of
amateur radio but I have done CW. I don't do it anymore but I have
experienced it. CW is the one mode that can get through under almost any
condition. You can (I can't anyway) copy CW in the middle of a thunder
storm, using the Aurora as a reflector, using meteor ionization trails
as a reflector or just direct point to point contact to accomplish this.
Try that with FM, AM, SSB voice or digital.

The problem with this and similar threads is a number of individuals do
not feel that they need to learn CW because they don't intend to use it.

A person of "Quality" may never need the proper etiquette to greet the
Queen but you had better know how to be considered as such a person.

Dave N. WD9BDZ

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:23:50 -0400, Dave spake
thusly:

What lie??

It's not a lie that code has kept good people out of ham radio.

No-coders are missing a major portion of the HR experience. That is NOT a lie!
It is a fact.

It's too easy to find hams that know code, used code and hated it.

Example: you can call yourself a marine two days after enlistment. But, you
become a Marine after completion of basic training! The commitment to success
through a period of trial and learning makes the Marine not the uniform.

Poor analogy. The Marines NEED harsh training to be able to do their
difficult jobs properly as lives and the nation depend on them. The
training is not a test of commitment, it is a harsh reality.
Ham radio is just a hobby.

No-coders have enlisted in the hobby. But, ...

Did you not read my last post? It's right below. The guys who built
their own locomotives did NOT go up to the guys who bought theirs and
say "You are not a real model steam train operator!!!"

It's just a hobby.

wrote:

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 08:47:14 -0400, "Dee Flint"
wrote:


"Opus-" wrote in message
...

[snip]


Sorry, but I can say for an absolute fact that your 're wrong. It had
kept me out of ham radio and I know exactly what kind of person that I
am. And before the obligatory "lazy" word is trotted out, I have to
work for the pay cheque that buys the radio, pays the rent for the
building that the radio is in and pays for the tower that is in the
back yard. I have to work extra to pay MORE for a place where I am
allowed a tower, as opposed to less expensive digs.

Honestly, I can't believe how some pro-coders look down on no-coders
with such contempt. I was once a member of a "live steam" model
railroad club. These were larger model steam trains that ran with real
steam instead of electric power. They could be run with either propane
or coal, depending on the individual. The guys who built their
locomotives from scratch NEVER looked down on the guys who bought
theirs from a classified ad. The guys burning coal did NOT call the
propane guys "lazy". We all enjoyed a fine hobby and club meetings
were always good fun and most informative. It was great for a
mechanic, like myself, to rub shoulders with experienced retired
machinists who built these locomotives. At one of our "open houses",
which were located outdoors at the club track, my daughter took her
first steps.

Isn't ham radio supposed to be like that? Is there no camaraderie?

Yes ham radio is supposed to be camaraderie. People are supposed to help
each other. The divisiveness stems from the fact that too many no-coders
appear to want to change the requirements with no knowledge, experience, or
understanding of the requirements.

back to lying about the motives and knowledge of the NoCoders again
DEE
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

Lloyd Davies NOVFP posing as"Not Lloyd" anon@anon wrote in message
...
Hey, Lone Ranger. I'm up on 20 meters right now. Care to join me? Oh,
wait.
You can't.

You can't either, legally, lardass lloyd-tard.

http://i14.tinypic.com/2iqgw3p.jpg

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:54:45 -0400, "Dee Flint"
spake thusly:


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
et...
Dee Flint wrote:
The divisiveness stems from the fact that too many no-coders appear to
want to change the requirements with no knowledge, experience, or
understanding of the requirements.

Speaking as a ham licensed for 50+ years, I would say a
lot of the divisiveness stems from coded hams trying to
substitute Morse code skill for technical knowledge and
intelligence.

Ham#1: "I've got a PhD in RF Engineering."

Ham#2: "Who cares, I flunked out of high school but
I can do 40 wpm at Morse code. So there!"

Eliminate the code requirement and triple the difficulty
of the technical exams. Problem solved.

Nope, won't solve the problem.

The solution is to accept people as true hams that passed the exams existing
at the time they were licensed. PERIOD!!

The solution is to accept the people who are licensed, regardless of
weather or not you agree with the test method.

My dad got his drivers license back in 1943 with NO test at all! They
just asked him "Are you blind?" He said "No" and the response was
"That will be $1 please".

I got my license in 1978 and I had to take driver training and pass 2
tests. According to some of the pro-code logic here, I should walk up
to him and tell him that he is not a real driver and that I am better
at driving than him. That would go over like a lead balloon.