Jeff Renkin wrote:

Are you a General or Extra? I don't see a Jeff Renkin or a Jeffrey Renkin listed at
QRZ. What is your call OM?

Gee, how did I know not to use my real name because some wacko like you would be
looking me up on QRZ to get my address and whatnot. Why were you trying to look me
up? So you could put me on all sorts of mailing lists or come visit my house and
throw eggs at it? Grow up!

We may be forced to give out our callsigns on the ham frequencies but anyone that does
it here is just asking for trouble. Might just as well post your real email
addresses here too while you are at it so you can get lots of spam.

Now instead of trying to find my address so you can pull your pranks, why not read the
rest and learn....

Gee...a straight shootin' lateral thinker (like me) for a change!

Yair... we have the same problem in Oz where some idiots think that
putting a ham callsign at the end of a usenet post is going to provide
some golden aura of revelation about the individual placing the post
and that anyone who doesn't put their ham callsign (if they have one)
on usenet is anonomously 'hiding'.

And keep in mind that many just look up and steal a callsign and identity like this other
guy did. How many 50 year old men do you know going around on newsgroups calling people
"Butthead"?

He made the mistake of not picking a callsign that belonged to someone closer to his real
age.

I mean...you're dead right (and my line of thinking is) that *all*
anyone is going to be able to do with a ham callsign is to run off
like a snivvelling little sneak to a database and (possibly) get a
name and an address. Then what? Are they going to send a posse around
and blow up your household mailbox?

The type of person that goes around calling people names like "Butthead" when there are
statements in a discussion he does not like MIGHT do something like that, yes.

Thus the reason you never post your callsign or personal info. Keep in mind if the
callsign this guy was posting was really his, he would not be calling names and starting
fights for the same reason that everyone can find his name and address too! But since it
is not his callsign, he doesn't care if you would do anything to the house of the poor
person who the callsign really belongs to.

Anyone who would be posting with their REAL callsign would not be stirring up fights with
anyone on a newsgroup, would they? Or course not. His actions and age have shown us
what is going on here.

Or sit scouring the airwaves
hoping to come across you on-air so that they can give you an earful?

He doesn't have a license, or he would not have made the statements he did, like that you
need to learn morse code to get a ham call sign. Any REAL ham knows you don't have to
pass a code test for well over a decade now and can still get a ham license and call
sign. The fact he didn't know this shows he is not a ham.

And the argument that putting a ham callsign into a post provides
'credibility' is a load of hooey.

What it provides, is proof that the person is either an idiot, or that he stole someone
else's callsign.

Let's face it, if anyone can pirate
a ham callsign on-air...they can sure as hell do it on usenet as well.
And the average newsgroup player would be absolutely *none* the wiser
about the person or the personality on the other end of the post.

Except when, as in this case, he steals the callsign of someone who is much older than he
is not knowing the age of the real callsign holder, and makes statements about ham radio
that are not only wrong, but would be something all real hams would know and not make a
mistake about.

Is a mere ham callsign going to tell them anything more about an
already anonomous situation? It is going to tell them whether you're a
beer-swilling yobbo or a connoisseur of fine red wines, or whether you
drive a beat up jalopy or drive a Rolls-Royce.

No, it just provides the guarantee that your house will be egged or rocks will fly through
your windows by some angry teenager that can't stand to lose debates on newsgroups.

As I profess, a ham callsign is nothing more than a mere *radio*
transmission identifier and usenet is all about computers, landlines
and stuff. But, no doubt, you have your fair share of poor misguided
souls who seem to think that a ham callsign is some sort of extension
of their personality.

Or in some cases, belongs to the personality it was stolen from.

Hey Butthead, it's really my call... you're wrong again, as you have been all along.

Steve
Holland, MI

Drake R7, R8 and R8B
BC-895, PRO-2045

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

People have been getting ham call signs for over a decade now because the Morse Code
requirement WAS dropped that long ago. If you were really a ham, you would have known that.

If the code requirement was truly what was preventing me from getting a call, I could still
have gotten a call over 10 years ago. And in the same 1x3 format that the call you are
posting under is.

So now that we all know (and you have just now learned) that I indeed could have a callsign
without knowing morse code, not posting it must instead be for the same reason I don't post my
social security number, real email address, and mother's maiden name on newsgroups, because
only uneducated people make that mistake. There are too many people like you out there
that use that information to hurt people just because they can't have civil debates and
discussions like mature adults.

You have made too many mistakes in your statements that a real ham would not have made. You
also go around name calling with names that a 50 year old man would not use. But since you
had no way of knowing the age of the holder of the call sign you are using, you didn't know
that until now. Perhaps in a few weeks you will come back posting under a different call
sign.

Since you claim to be a general that passed the code requirement, and since you don't need to
ever take a code test again to upgrade to Extra... Why don't you have an Extra class
license? Surely you can memorize the answers to the written part? Cripes, 8 year old
children are getting their Extra licenses in one sitting, why can't you, since the code is not
even an issue here as it is only 5 wpm across the board (something else you would not know)
and you would not need to take another code test to get your Extra.

See, this makes no sense either and shows contradictions revealing lies.

And the further you try to stand on your lies, the more you will have to create and only dig
yourself deeper into contradictions.

-------------------------------------
I will no longer reply to any idiotic statements made by those just arguing for the sake of
arguing.

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

You have NO proof of that, and you're still a jackass.

Forget all about that for a minute, and read his statement that I could not have a call sign
until the morse code requirement is dropped. That is very revealing about him! Any
real ham would know this is not true! You can indeed get a call without ever having to
learn morse code, and have been able to do so for more than 10 years now.

So now we have PROOF that he is not a ham, and therefore stole someone else's call sign.

Perhaps we should email the callsign holder at the arrl.net email address that can only be
used by the real holder of the callsign and let the holder know that his call sign is being
used on this newsgroup?

Let's see if he can come back and post the text of that email back here on this group proving
he is the true holder. If he can't do that, then he is not the true holder. We will
wait and see.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

People have been getting ham call signs for over a decade now because the Morse Code
requirement WAS dropped that long ago. If you were really a ham, you would have known that.

Really, guess I'm not a ham then.



If the code requirement was truly what was preventing me from getting a call, I could still
have gotten a call over 10 years ago. And in the same 1x3 format that the call you are
posting under is.

So now that we all know (and you have just now learned) that I indeed could have a callsign
without knowing morse code, not posting it must instead be for the same reason I don't post my
social security number, real email address, and mother's maiden name on newsgroups, because
only uneducated people make that mistake. There are too many people like you out there
that use that information to hurt people just because they can't have civil debates and
discussions like mature adults.

Yep, I'm just looking to hurt poor folk such as yourself. That is indeed what I sppend my entire
day doing. LMAO



You have made too many mistakes in your statements that a real ham would not have made.

Mistakes? Such as?

You
also go around name calling with names that a 50 year old man would not use.

I'm 50, I'm using it Butthead... so once again you are wrong.

But since you
had no way of knowing the age of the holder of the call sign you are using, you didn't know
that until now.

I know the age of the callsign holder perfectly well, after all it is me!

Perhaps in a few weeks you will come back posting under a different call
sign.

I doubt it, I've been posting under this call for a long time.



Since you claim to be a general that passed the code requirement, and since you don't need to
ever take a code test again to upgrade to Extra... Why don't you have an Extra class
license?

Guess I've just never bothered to upgrade. Oh well...

Surely you can memorize the answers to the written part? Cripes, 8 year old
children are getting their Extra licenses in one sitting, why can't you, since the code is not
even an issue here as it is only 5 wpm across the board (something else you would not know)
and you would not need to take another code test to get your Extra.

No kidding.



See, this makes no sense either and shows contradictions revealing lies.

No lies at all Butthead, just your fantasies.



And the further you try to stand on your lies, the more you will have to create and only dig
yourself deeper into contradictions.

-------------------------------------
I will no longer reply to any idiotic statements made by those just arguing for the sake of
arguing.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

The key thing here though is that poor Jeff doesn't have a call, and won't have one till
the Morse requirement is dropped.

You have NO proof of that, and you're still a jackass.

Forget all about that for a minute, and read his statement that I could not have a call sign
until the morse code requirement is dropped. That is very revealing about him! Any
real ham would know this is not true! You can indeed get a call without ever having to
learn morse code, and have been able to do so for more than 10 years now.

So now we have PROOF that he is not a ham, and therefore stole someone else's call sign.

Perhaps we should email the callsign holder at the arrl.net email address that can only be
used by the real holder of the callsign and let the holder know that his call sign is being
used on this newsgroup?

I don't have an email address at the arrl.net site. I'm not even a member of the ARRL. LMAO



Let's see if he can come back and post the text of that email back here on this group proving
he is the true holder. If he can't do that, then he is not the true holder. We will
wait and see.

Anyone who would be posting with their REAL callsign would not be stirring
up fights with
anyone on a newsgroup, would they? Or course not.

Believe me -- even if you do not flame or stir up a fight,
Even if you are very diplomatic in taking exceptions.
Or if you are female.
The nuts will sooner or later come after you.

Anon In Key Largo

Jeff Renkin wrote in message
In emergencies hams are NOT broadcasting to the public.

In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

If I'm on a ham band calling for help, I don't expect non hams to be
listening.
If there are, well, so much the better, but I would never *expect* any
to be listening. If I get on a ham band, I'm transmitting to other
hams, and other hams only. If I want a non ham, I would get on my cell
phone or yell real loud.


In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

B.S. Most hams on the HF bands know code well enough to get a simple
message through.
I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?
Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW. They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.
Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.


Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on
your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad
and see how fast you are able to get any assistance. Your call for assistance
will be taken as a prank phone call and they will hang up on you and you will
remain stranded until you decide to talk into the microphone so that someone can
hear and understand your message.

Yea right....Any other goofy "no one in their right mind" scenarios
you want to dream up?

Common sense folks. You can pretend to say otherwise here on this newsgroup,
but when the real emergency arises, the last thing on your mind will be playing
with morse code! Then see how fast you can use a microphone and your voice!

Speed is not usually an issue. Solid copy is more important. Sure, I
would try to use phone if possible. But if not, I can get the job done
on CW. Can you? I guess they would die. Too bad....Another day ,
another $2.34 ...


They are using
their skills to pass messages from the public and emergency services to the
public and emergency services via the ham network. No has to be able to
understand the message while it is in transit except the hams.

This is true.

MOST hams don't understand morse code either! The no-code tech class has
outnumbered the other license classes for years, and those that did learn the
code only did so to pass the test and many never used it after the test. (like
myself and all my ham friends)

"Most" hams on HF do though. At least well enough to tell someone is
trying to call them. Myself, I know code fast enough to keep up with
just about anyone. They can send 50 wpm, and I'll still copy just
fine. I can send or receive a message using CW just about as fast as
voice. To me, CW is almost voice. Just really monotone...

Send code to us and it will be nothing more than beep beep beep beep. I
remember SOS and the letter R for some reason (probably since most repeaters end
with R on their id) but that won't tell me where you are or what the problem
is.

That is a personal problem that shouldn't be confused this with "us".
I wouldn't be so fast to speak for all of hamdom. All of us semi-old
farts ain't dead yet.

Unless you talk to us, you can consider yourself dead in an
emergency.

Not me. I'd fix his ass up right fast. He can use any freaking mode he
wants.
I'm not particular. CW, RTTY, PSK, SSB, AM, FM, hell, I don't
care...Whatever works on their end.

Thus hams
can and will use any means at their disposal appropriate to the situation,
that includes voice,

It sure does.

It sure does. BTW, I could care less about the code or no-code debate.
This is just addressing overall sillyness in thinking. MK

Never anonymous Bud wrote:

Having skipped an E.L.F. meeting to be here, N8KDV
scribbled:

Really, guess I'm not a ham then.

I think we were ALL coming to that conclusion.

And yet once again Bud, your conclusion is incorrect. It must really suck to be
you. Oh well...



To reply by email, remove the XYZ.

Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

It's your SIG, say what you want to say....

In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

If I'm on a ham band calling for help, I don't expect non hams to be
listening.

Actually MORE people who are not hams could be listening with their scanners than hams
with their 2-meter radios. You just don't know they are there because they can't
talk back, but they are listening. Just like when the cops say things they
shouldn't on their radios because they think the only ones listening are the other
cops.

If there are, well, so much the better, but I would never *expect* any
to be listening. If I get on a ham band, I'm transmitting to other
hams, and other hams only.

Even with that mindset, MOST hams don't understand morse code, especially those that
would be on 2-meters which would most likely the band you would use to call for help.

If I want a non ham, I would get on my cell
phone or yell real loud.

Ham or not, you would use the cellphone if you had one over any ham radio.

In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

B.S. Most hams on the HF bands know code well enough to get a simple
message through.

Most hams only learn the code to pass the test, then never use it after that. You
are also not going to be using an HF radio to call for help, you would use the 2-meter
radio. God help you if you had to use the HF radio to get help! Keep in mind
what frequencies and bands the police, fire and paramedics use, and why they don't use
HF for emergency radio use. They also don't know or ever use morse code in any
emergency. In fact in disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes when we assist
them with our equipment and resources, we don't ever use morse code either, we use
voice every time.

I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?

No, all mine have been on land, but I am prepared to do so. The testing
requirements for getting a GROL means you know what frequencies to monitor, and at
what times you have to be monitoring them and all that other good stuff relating to
marine emergencies, even though I got the license for broadcast use. Actually, now
the GROL doesn't even have any broadcast use, but some stations still like to see that
you have it if you want to be chief engineer. It is not required, but they like if
you have it. But getting it means you are tested on all this stuff too.
Interesting enough, morse code was never a requirement for that.

Even when there was the First Class Radiotelephone Operators License for chief
engineers of Broadcast stations, there was no code requirement. You could be
working on and operating transmitters operating on 50,000 watts of power and not need
to know code, but for a citizen's hobby ham radio license where most are using
substantially less power, you needed to know code. It was an international
requirement, although Japan found a nice way to get around it, and the US decided that
you could get out of the international agreement by getting a doctor's note.

Lazy handicapped people? Or is it that when you are handicapped or injured in an
emergency, you may not be able to operate a code key, only a microphone??? Aha!

Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW.

That doesn't do any good to those monitoring for a "mayday" like every GROL licensee
is doing. No mention of Morse Code is ever brought up. You are to ask for help
with the international distress call of MAYDAY.

They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.

Of course you did. You needed to know where they were and all the other details.
If they had to pound it out one letter of the alphabet at a time with morse code, they
would have been dead before the message ever got out.

Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.

That's right. They don't use morse code, and neither does the military. Neither
do ANY emergency services like Police, Fire, Paramedics. No time to play around
with morse code in a real emergency. If it had ANY sort of advantage at all, they
would require the military, police, fire and paramedics to learn it. But they
don't, do they? Of course not. Case closed.

Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on

your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad
and see how fast you are able to get any assistance. Your call for assistance
will be taken as a prank phone call and they will hang up on you and you will
remain stranded until you decide to talk into the microphone so that someone can
hear and understand your message.

Yea right....Any other goofy "no one in their right mind" scenarios
you want to dream up?

Wow, you didn't even comprehend what you read, did you? It was meant to be a goofy
scenarios that would never happen, it was an example of the type of crap the morse
code people always bring up. Glad to hear you think it is goofy like I do, but too
bad you didn't even read what it said before you commented on it.

You just proved you are not reading any of these statements, just looking where a
paragraph ends and then making up an argument for the sake of argument.

Now everyone here knows you are a troll.

Jeff Renkin wrote:

In an emergency anyone is broadcasting to ANYONE that is listening. If you
think a ham or anyone else in an emergency is not going to want a non-ham to
help, or will refuse to deal with a non-ham you are crazy.

If I'm on a ham band calling for help, I don't expect non hams to be
listening.

Actually MORE people who are not hams could be listening with their scanners than hams
with their 2-meter radios. You just don't know they are there because they can't
talk back, but they are listening. Just like when the cops say things they
shouldn't on their radios because they think the only ones listening are the other
cops.

If there are, well, so much the better, but I would never *expect* any
to be listening. If I get on a ham band, I'm transmitting to other
hams, and other hams only.

Even with that mindset, MOST hams don't understand morse code, especially those that
would be on 2-meters which would most likely the band you would use to call for help.

If I want a non ham, I would get on my cell
phone or yell real loud.

Ham or not, you would use the cellphone if you had one over any ham radio.

In an emergency you can even use frequencies and radios at your access that you
would not normally be licensed to operate on. We are talking about
EMERGENCIES here. No time to waste playing morse code or taking the time to
pound out a cry for help one letter at a time in a mode that only ends up
sounding like silly beeps to most of the people listening on the other end that
would otherwise be hearing your cry for help.

B.S. Most hams on the HF bands know code well enough to get a simple
message through.

Most hams only learn the code to pass the test, then never use it after that. You
are also not going to be using an HF radio to call for help, you would use the 2-meter
radio. God help you if you had to use the HF radio to get help! Keep in mind
what frequencies and bands the police, fire and paramedics use, and why they don't use
HF for emergency radio use. They also don't know or ever use morse code in any
emergency. In fact in disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes when we assist
them with our equipment and resources, we don't ever use morse code either, we use
voice every time.

I've actually dealt with a marine emergency on the radio. Have you?

No, all mine have been on land, but I am prepared to do so. The testing
requirements for getting a GROL means you know what frequencies to monitor, and at
what times you have to be monitoring them and all that other good stuff relating to
marine emergencies, even though I got the license for broadcast use. Actually, now
the GROL doesn't even have any broadcast use, but some stations still like to see that
you have it if you want to be chief engineer. It is not required, but they like if
you have it. But getting it means you are tested on all this stuff too.
Interesting enough, morse code was never a requirement for that.

Even when there was the First Class Radiotelephone Operators License for chief
engineers of Broadcast stations, there was no code requirement. You could be
working on and operating transmitters operating on 50,000 watts of power and not need
to know code, but for a citizen's hobby ham radio license where most are using
substantially less power, you needed to know code. It was an international
requirement, although Japan found a nice way to get around it, and the US decided that
you could get out of the international agreement by getting a doctor's note.

Lazy handicapped people? Or is it that when you are handicapped or injured in an
emergency, you may not be able to operate a code key, only a microphone??? Aha!

Wanna know how the boat got our attention though all the noise on 40m?
CW.

That doesn't do any good to those monitoring for a "mayday" like every GROL licensee
is doing. No mention of Morse Code is ever brought up. You are to ask for help
with the international distress call of MAYDAY.

They were too weak to get through on fone until we actually knew
they were there. After they got our attention, yes, we went to phone.

Of course you did. You needed to know where they were and all the other details.
If they had to pound it out one letter of the alphabet at a time with morse code, they
would have been dead before the message ever got out.

Mainly because the coast guard station in Miami was on phone.

That's right. They don't use morse code, and neither does the military. Neither
do ANY emergency services like Police, Fire, Paramedics. No time to play around
with morse code in a real emergency. If it had ANY sort of advantage at all, they
would require the military, police, fire and paramedics to learn it. But they
don't, do they? Of course not. Case closed.

Next time you are stranded in your car and need a tow, why don't you call on

your cell phone and punch our your problem in morse code with the touch tone pad
and see how fast you are able to get any assistance. Your call for assistance
will be taken as a prank phone call and they will hang up on you and you will
remain stranded until you decide to talk into the microphone so that someone can
hear and understand your message.

Yea right....Any other goofy "no one in their right mind" scenarios
you want to dream up?

Wow, you didn't even comprehend what you read, did you? It was meant to be a goofy
scenarios that would never happen, it was an example of the type of crap the morse
code people always bring up. Glad to hear you think it is goofy like I do, but too
bad you didn't even read what it said before you commented on it.

You just proved you are not reading any of these statements, just looking where a
paragraph ends and then making up an argument for the sake of argument.

Now everyone here knows you are a troll.

And that you are one helluva idiot!