Brenda Ann wrote:

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

If you havent noticed, not everyone in the country works for Wal-Mart. Why
dont you do some research and see what the average wage in the US is and
report back to us here. That is your school assignment.
73

But the average wage doesn't mean a lot to a great many people. The average
income is skewed by a very few very high paid corporate execs (who make many
times more a year than does the president), entertainers and sports figures.
This has the effect of raising the median income significantly when figured
as part of the whole. For every Enron exec making millions a year, there are
thousands of folks making less than $20G, which isn't a living of any kind
with our cost of living. There's a whole lot of grunt labor out there,
including a lot of the salespeople at your favorite radio store, that make
much closer to minimum wage...

me thinks about the math for a second
lets assume you are correct
1000 people at 20g/yr
1 enron exec 10million/yr


1000 X 20,000 = 20,000,000
1 X 10,000,000 = 10,000,000

total 30,000,000

average

30,000,000/(1000 + 1) = 29,970 and change
actually that doesnt seem to me to skew the number all that bad

That is quite correct. There are really not enough of the very rich to skew
the numbers to a significant degree.

"123.bam" "123.bam wrote in message
...
Brenda Ann wrote:

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

If you havent noticed, not everyone in the country works for Wal-Mart.
Why
dont you do some research and see what the average wage in the US is
and
report back to us here. That is your school assignment.
73

But the average wage doesn't mean a lot to a great many people. The
average
income is skewed by a very few very high paid corporate execs (who make
many
times more a year than does the president), entertainers and sports
figures.
This has the effect of raising the median income significantly when
figured
as part of the whole. For every Enron exec making millions a year, there
are
thousands of folks making less than $20G, which isn't a living of any
kind
with our cost of living. There's a whole lot of grunt labor out there,
including a lot of the salespeople at your favorite radio store, that
make
much closer to minimum wage...

me thinks about the math for a second
lets assume you are correct
1000 people at 20g/yr
1 enron exec 10million/yr


1000 X 20,000 = 20,000,000
1 X 10,000,000 = 10,000,000

total 30,000,000

average

30,000,000/(1000 + 1) = 29,970 and change
actually that doesnt seem to me to skew the number all that bad

"Mike Lindo" wrote:
You don't mention that the working
Europeans pay for all of that through
enormous taxation. (snip)


Nonsense. While I don't agree with everything Leonard said, he is
absolutely correct about the taxes. When you compare the entire tax burdens
(sales, sin, property, state income, federal income, and so on), most
Europeans don't pay higher taxes. Further, because of the often higher
saleries, Europeans usually have more money to spend after taxes. Yet, in
spite of this, Europeans still enjoy the benefits described below. I've
worked in both places, paid taxes in both, and know this to be the truth. If
more Americans did the same, they would also realise the claim of "enormous
taxation" in Europe is false.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/



"Leonard Martin" wrote:

Hyperpatriot American morons never
listen to or watch international news.
Our masters see to that. If we Americans
heard about life in Europe, with its six
week vacations, free medical care, etc.,
long-term unemployment compensation,
and so on, we might stop running around
like obedient herd-dogs, doing ever more
for our masters, and ask why we, in the
"Wealthiest Country on Earth" don't have
those things. (snip)

Leonard Martin wrote:

Hyperpatriot American morons never listen to or watch international news.
Our masters see to that. If we Americans heard about life in Europe, with
its six week vacations, free medical care, etc., long-term unemployment
compensation, and so on, we might stop running around like obedient
herd-dogs, doing ever more for our masters, and ask why we, in the
"Wealthiest Country on Earth" don't have those things.

Of course, our corporations, with their promotion of the global economy,
are rapidly undermining Europe's lifestyle, so soon Europeans will be just
like us. I wonder if they too, then, like us now, will solace themselves
for their endless labor and perpetual fearfulness, by saying, "OK, my life
sucks, but I live in the "Greatest Country on Earth"!!!

Leonard

The why do you live here? Why don't you move to Europe?

"123.bam" "123.bam wrote in message
...
Brenda Ann wrote:

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

If you havent noticed, not everyone in the country works for Wal-Mart.
Why
dont you do some research and see what the average wage in the US is
and
report back to us here. That is your school assignment.
73

But the average wage doesn't mean a lot to a great many people. The
average
income is skewed by a very few very high paid corporate execs (who make
many
times more a year than does the president), entertainers and sports
figures.
This has the effect of raising the median income significantly when
figured
as part of the whole. For every Enron exec making millions a year, there
are
thousands of folks making less than $20G, which isn't a living of any
kind
with our cost of living. There's a whole lot of grunt labor out there,
including a lot of the salespeople at your favorite radio store, that
make
much closer to minimum wage...

me thinks about the math for a second
lets assume you are correct
1000 people at 20g/yr
1 enron exec 10million/yr


1000 X 20,000 = 20,000,000
1 X 10,000,000 = 10,000,000

total 30,000,000

average

30,000,000/(1000 + 1) = 29,970 and change
actually that doesnt seem to me to skew the number all that bad



For US income information, try looking here.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p60-221.pdf

With all due respect, you need to research your facts.


"Leonard Martin" wrote in message
t...

Exactly!

An it's well known that over the last 30 years an ever-greater portion of
the total money earned in the US has gone to the wealthiest people, and an
ever-greater portion of our assets have come to be owned by them, while
the
reverse is happening to the poor and much of the middle class. Here's a
bit
of intriguing evidence of that trend: During the Christmas season just
past, luxury stores like Nieman-Marcus experienced strong sales increases
over the previous year, while stores like Sears and even Walmart,
patronized by the rest of us, experienced only modest growth.

Leonard


In article , "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

If you havent noticed, not everyone in the country works for Wal-Mart.
Why
dont you do some research and see what the average wage in the US is
and
report back to us here. That is your school assignment.
73

But the average wage doesn't mean a lot to a great many people. The
average
income is skewed by a very few very high paid corporate execs (who make
many
times more a year than does the president), entertainers and sports
figures.
This has the effect of raising the median income significantly when
figured
as part of the whole. For every Enron exec making millions a year, there
are
thousands of folks making less than $20G, which isn't a living of any
kind
with our cost of living. There's a whole lot of grunt labor out there,
including a lot of the salespeople at your favorite radio store, that
make
much closer to minimum wage...

--
"Everything that rises must converge"
--Flannery O'Connor

"Leonard Martin" wrote in message
t...
In Europe ost of that heavy taxation falls on rich people. Are you one?
I'm
not. So we'd both be better off there. Especially given some statistics i
recently heard from a guy who's written a book on the American tax
system:
1) Persons in the top 1% of earners in the US now pay about 1/3, in real
dollars, of the percentage of the total tax "take" that they did in the
1970s. 2) The Alternative Minimum tax has never been indexed for
inflation
since it was passed in the 1970s, so it has increasingly done what it was
never meant to do, increase the portion of the tax take paid by the middle
to upper middle class (those earning $50,000 to $500,000 a year). 3) The
American income tax system is very good at tracking down and getting at
earned income, but poor at doing so for income from investments, and,
above all, income realized by corporations, and that is part of why rich
people pay so little. 4) The rest of why is because the top tax rates have
been cut again and again by Reagan, Bush1 and Bush2.

Leonard


Your data is incomplete. The top 5% of the people in this country pay about
50% of the total tax take. The top 50% of the people pay 90% of the total
tax take. So the government is already "taxing the rich". If you are going
to stimulate the economy, you can only cut taxes for those who are paying
taxes. Since half the people pay very little or even no taxes, you can't
reduce taxes there. The rich are paying their fair share and more.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Of course the assets of the poor is going to be, little or nothing, and not
get any better! They are not working. They do not want to work! Why should
they? They get free medical care (show up at an emergency room), free food
through food stamps, and almost free housing through Section 8 programs!
Paid for by the working class of course, and the rich who are paying the
most taxes! Why does it seems that most of the legal immigrants eventually
accrue lots of assets? Homes, cars, and even businesses! Look at a lot of
these small shops and Seven and Eleven stores! Owned and run by immigrants.
Asians and a lot of Indians or Pakistanis. Why is that? Are you listening?
Here it is! They are willing to work very hard, and very long hours, doing
things that a lot of the American poor are unwilling to do! Some even have
two or three jobs until the can accumulate enough to start a business. They
even pool their resouces to accomplish their goals. The liberal socialist
agendas of the Demo-rats, only serve to keep the poor under their thumbs. It
keeps them uneducated, with the impression that they, the Demo-rats, are
working hard to get them more of what they deserve. They deserve nothing,
if they are not willing to work hard to better themselves! Nothing, if they
are unwilling to take over their communities from the gangs and drug
pushers! Nothing, if they are unwilling to stop the killing of their young!
The Demo-rats liberal socialist do-gooder agendas and programs only keep the
poor dependent on them, and not on who it should be on, which should be on
the individual. Not on the government or on their programs.

Mike Lindo
KG6IOC
--
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle
behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto



"Leonard Martin" wrote in message
t...

Exactly!

An it's well known that over the last 30 years an ever-greater portion of
the total money earned in the US has gone to the wealthiest people, and an
ever-greater portion of our assets have come to be owned by them, while
the
reverse is happening to the poor and much of the middle class. Here's a
bit
of intriguing evidence of that trend: During the Christmas season just
past, luxury stores like Nieman-Marcus experienced strong sales increases
over the previous year, while stores like Sears and even Walmart,
patronized by the rest of us, experienced only modest growth.

Leonard


In article , "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

If you havent noticed, not everyone in the country works for Wal-Mart.
Why
dont you do some research and see what the average wage in the US is
and
report back to us here. That is your school assignment.
73

But the average wage doesn't mean a lot to a great many people. The
average
income is skewed by a very few very high paid corporate execs (who make
many
times more a year than does the president), entertainers and sports
figures.
This has the effect of raising the median income significantly when
figured
as part of the whole. For every Enron exec making millions a year, there
are
thousands of folks making less than $20G, which isn't a living of any
kind
with our cost of living. There's a whole lot of grunt labor out there,
including a lot of the salespeople at your favorite radio store, that
make
much closer to minimum wage...

--
"Everything that rises must converge"
--Flannery O'Connor

"Mike Lindo" wrote:
So, if what you say is true, where does
the money come from to pay for all
of those benefits?


Several facters. First, they generally have smaller governments.
Government is huge today, involved in some way or another in almost every
aspect of our lives. One or two of our government departments (say Health &
Human Services and State) are almost as large as their entire civilian
government. Second, they hit corporations a little harder then we do here,
not a lot but somewhat harder. For example, business can't write off as
much. Finally, and here is a big one, they spend far less on defense. Our
defense costs are huge (annual military budget, debt, interest on debt,
research, retirement, medical benefits for injured vets, and so on). There
are certainly other facters, but these are the most obvious.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

Your data is incomplete. The top 5%
of the people in this country pay about
50% of the total tax take. The top 50%
of the people pay 90% of the total
tax take. So the government is already
"taxing the rich". (snip)


Your data is equally incomplete. What percentage of the nation's wealth is
controlled by those top 5% and 50%, and how does that compare to the
percentage of taxes they pay? I read recently that the top 10-20% control
80% of the nation's wealth. I'm going on what I vaguely remember (which is
why I asked), so don't quote me on these figures. However, if that is true,
that 50% you say they pay is rather small.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/