In the movie Mission Impossible they use a scanner I think it is
either BC245 or BC220 next to a laptop and it is searching
frequencies. what are they doing there?? It's almost like they are
faking it and using the scanner as a counter? I was only half watching
it and didn't see what they were hoping to do but the frequencies were
running up from 30mhz to upper 40s and they mentioned that it was
picking up the hard drive operating frequencies too. What do computers
normally run at in mhz?

Check out the one in Matt Damon's movie, "The Bourne Identity". You
gotta be sharp because it goes by quite fast during the chase scene.
I've never seen one like it before. I believe that it's scanning the
French Police at or around 500 Meg's.

Alain

Jim wrote:
In the movie Mission Impossible they use a scanner I think it is
either BC245 or BC220 next to a laptop and it is searching
frequencies. what are they doing there?? It's almost like they are
faking it and using the scanner as a counter? I was only half watching
it and didn't see what they were hoping to do but the frequencies were
running up from 30mhz to upper 40s and they mentioned that it was
picking up the hard drive operating frequencies too. What do computers
normally run at in mhz?

--
MZ�

In article , Bigelow103
@hotmail.com says...

In the movie Mission Impossible they use a scanner I think it is
either BC245 or BC220 next to a laptop and it is searching
frequencies. what are they doing there?? It's almost like they are
faking it and using the scanner as a counter? I was only half watching
it and didn't see what they were hoping to do but the frequencies were
running up from 30mhz to upper 40s and they mentioned that it was
picking up the hard drive operating frequencies too. What do computers
normally run at in mhz?

This sounds to me like typical RF-ignorant Hollywood "creative
license."

While all hard drives have a microprocessor on them, with a clock
oscillator, listening to whatever tiny amount of emission it produces
(even assuming you can pick it up without a preamp) is a waste of time.
If you hear anything at all, it'll be a blank carrier, perhaps with some
digital noise on it.

As for modern computers, they operate in multiples of GIGAhertz.
My own workstation, an AMD Athlon MP system, operates in excess of 2GHz.

Again, listening to whatever RF emissions come out of a computer
is an exercise in utter time-wasting. There's nothing there that the
human ear -- or even another computer -- can make any sense of.

Now, monitoring the emissions off Ethernet cables with another
computer, and some extremely sophisticated (and expensive) receiving
gear... that's another issue, one that I don't have enough knowledge on
to go any further than saying "yes, it's technically possible."

Keep the peace(es).

--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

Again, listening to whatever RF emissions come out of a computer
is an exercise in utter time-wasting. There's nothing there that the
human ear -- or even another computer -- can make any sense of.


actually computers and associated equipment can be " easily "
eavesdropped upon ..and a HUGE worldwide industry is based
upon this process. the obvious ways of tapping LAN , WANs, and
telco equipment is one way ... BUT RF and IR ( from pannel mounted
LEDS are other less well know ways.

the most common ways to eavesdrop on computers via RF or IR are to
listen to the immensely powerful raster scan from a computer CRT.
these can be eavesdropped upon from several blocks away with
with a directional antenna. also , optical eavesdropping on pannel
mounted LEDS ( like on a router or other mainframe items ) is another
choice. ( see one through a window !! )

type : eavesdropping on computers " into Google for over 52,000
hits and some eye popping information. ( or : RF eavesdropping on
computers " )

" war driving " has been a popular computer eavesdropping and hacking
hobby for some time ... and it isn't even illegal yet. but many
people add to this type of RF eavesdropping the additional deminsion
of just remote monitoring the CRT display to get easier info and
insight into the " marks " activities. VERY popular with some
detective agencies these days.
( type wardriving into Google too , or even ebay for the latest
equipment )

this type of computer eavesdropping vunerability is the chief reason
that ALL classified government and military installations have
conductive film on all outside facing windows. this is " absolutely "
required at civilian subcontractors too. even many computer hackers
line their room walls and windows with foil to stop outside discovery
of their activities . a really fun and interesting topic.

this stuff has been around for a decadeand half .... but still a very
modern topic.

http://www.politrix.org/foia/tempest/tempest-leak.htm


lrackula ...........

In article ,
says...

actually computers and associated equipment can be " easily "
eavesdropped upon ..and a HUGE worldwide industry is based
upon this process. the obvious ways of tapping LAN , WANs, and
telco equipment is one way ... BUT RF and IR ( from pannel mounted
LEDS are other less well know ways.

How, pray tell, is a panel-mounted LED, tied directly to the DC
power output of a power supply, going to emit anything useful?

Also, you didn't read my orginal post far enough. It IS very
possible to eavesdrop on LAN traffic across copper cables via their
emissions. It's just that the equipment it takes to reliably do so, from
any reasonable distance in situations where you do NOT have access to a
direct connection, is well out of the realm of tools that the
'consumer' can easily get (or know how to use).

the most common ways to eavesdrop on computers via RF or IR are to
listen to the immensely powerful raster scan from a computer CRT.

...A method which I'm in doubt even works. Even if there is
something to it, I'll bet it doesn't work with flat-panel displays,
which barely emit anything at all outside of their shielding.

these can be eavesdropped upon from several blocks away with
with a directional antenna. also , optical eavesdropping on pannel
mounted LEDS ( like on a router or other mainframe items ) is another
choice. ( see one through a window !! )

Then I suppose I should be grateful I have obscured glass in the
garage. ;-)

" war driving " has been a popular computer eavesdropping and hacking
hobby for some time ... and it isn't even illegal yet. but many

And it can be easily defeated by implementing basic security
measures on the wireless network. Try again?


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

How, pray tell, is a panel-mounted LED, tied directly to the DC
power output of a power supply, going to emit anything useful?

uhhhh .... well it's the led " IR " ports. they are
all over the place these days. front of my computer, on handhelds , on
printers , cameras , PDAs etc. we generally ignore them , and
fail to remember their presence. ( I disconnected the one on the
front of my computer and my printer just in case , since I don't use
'em for anything )



Also, you didn't read my orginal post far enough. It IS very
possible to eavesdrop on LAN traffic across copper cables via their
emissions. It's just that the equipment it takes to reliably do so, from
any reasonable distance in situations where you do NOT have access to a
direct connection, is well out of the realm of tools that the
'consumer' can easily get (or know how to use).


naturally the government has been doing it for decades ...
civilians are just recently getting into it. " extremely " simple
wideband preamplifiers ( available at radioshack or from lan dealers
on ebay ) are all that it takes to get into the act. just plug one or
two into a hand held 15 element log yagi antenna ( also common on
ebay ) your datamodem on the other end and if sufficient signal is
present ... you've got copy. ( obviously it's bit more than this , but
I don't want this to become a " how to " . the info is commonly
available on the web , tho )
since you are a ham ... you'll understand this :
just get a cheap ( $15 to $45 on ebay ) signal level meter.
( I use a modified cushman ce-24 ) ... mod the I.f. to " wide "
( jump the filters ) tap the I.F. before the detector and schmidt the
output to a logic level. " presto " a wideband supersensitive signal
receiver that can tune and detect / output digital signals. it's that
easy.
tune " any " selective level meter ( with a small external antenna )
across the lowest bands and listen to the " immense " jumble of
computers radiating from ALL OVER your neighbor hood. there will be so
many ( if you live in any average metro area ) that you have to
drive up , outside people's houses to make sense of all of them. it's
a mess , there are so many.
the cable company also makes it VERY easy in my part of the world ,
as the cable connections are ALL outside people's houses in a
green box , partially buried , out near the curb ... outside every
house. no electric or other wires to be seen , here , all in the
ground .. right at the curb. clean looking but doesn't contribute much
to security. " all " of the signals , running loose in / on your
computer ... leak out on your cable modem connection wire
) phone lines for DSL ) , on the coaxial shield. kinda makes it too
easy sometimes. the same goes for your electric lines. those so called
" common mode " RF filters do VERY little to remove the signal from
the ground wires in your home AC power system. they do seem to
vanish at the local transformer , for some reason.




the most common ways to eavesdrop on computers via RF or IR are to
listen to the immensely powerful raster scan from a computer CRT.

...A method which I'm in doubt even works. Even if there is
something to it, I'll bet it doesn't work with flat-panel displays,
which barely emit anything at all outside of their shielding.

try reading the Google links that I mentioned and see if you still
don't . it wouldn't be a billion dollar industry if it didn't exist.
ever been to the new CIA building ?
they have an interesting display of eavesdropping equipment there
on public display ( or did have at least ) lots of the van eck stuff
is there. it's WAY old stuff compared to what they have nowadays.
they consider the stuff shown on the web to be so old and dated ( the
RF eavesdropping equipment ) it's laughable to them.



Then I suppose I should be grateful I have obscured glass in the
garage. ;-)

well ......remember that it's a IR signal source and IR can pass
through some ( apparently ) opaque glass surfaces and has a nasty
habit of bouncing / reflecting off stuff that we wouldn't ordinarily
think it would. there are " laser " inferometers that you can bounce
off a plane of glass and get a scatter beam return that can contain
the original optical energy and " any " other optical energy from
behind the glass. ( actually a optically generated sub carrier of
some lower bandwidth than optical freqs ... but certain angles of
attack from behind pass through and leave too little of a signature )
the 60 hz signal created by ordinary house lighting is easily "
optically " ( and on audio freqs too ) filtered off the signal path.
if " the boys " want into any of your optical ports , a simple
fiber scope under the door or through a lock hole will do the trick
easily.
surely most of us don't have anything going on " the boys " would ever
be interested in ...... but it's information worth thinking about ,
never the less.

guard your IR ports, " all " of the CPU freqs ( of everything in your
box and there are many , esp on accessory cards ) and the raster scan
leakage / rf signals present in your computer systems. it's difficult
to do ( crappy or NO shielding on about everything ) ... much more
than people expect. air broadcast , your cable and your home power
wiring are your worse enemies in that respect.
( freqs of 15khz to .45 megs .... freqs of 266 mhz to 3 gigs and
.... 902 nm IR. all this changes a lot , tho )


I seem to have to run hard to keep up with all the new stuff ..just
when I get comfortable with something new ..it seems like 10 more new
" things " pop up. it's exhausting at times ... and often I think
that a certain amount of blissful ignorance is a good thing , too. ha
ha ah ah aha ha ah sometimes it's better just not to know.
who needs it ?

73s
the K man ............

" war driving " has been a popular computer eavesdropping and hacking
hobby for some time ... and it isn't even illegal yet. but many

And it can be easily defeated by implementing basic security
measures on the wireless network. Try again?

Sorry, wireless security does not exist.

On 21 Jan 2004 06:36:40 -0800, (Jim) wrote:

In the movie Mission Impossible they use a scanner I think it is
either BC245 or BC220 next to a laptop and it is searching
frequencies. what are they doing there??


Google "Tempest"

you're right about that .. and some in ways you might not expect. I
have a 2.4 gig wireless WAP installed in my home . it's a Linksys
wireless router that feeds wideband cable to several different
computers and a laptop which I move around a lot.

I also run a Zone Alarm ( freeware ) software firewall on each
machine on the router. I have the router set " tight " ( no outside
port access ) and when testing on those web security sites , it reads
" invisible " .. highest level of security " as a test result.

well don't buy into that for a minute !!! on ANY machine on
the system , I can kill all the browser programs and set Zone Alarm
to " lock " ( kill ALL internet activity ) and when Zone Alarm is in
lock it reports " any " attempted intrusions. ( which naturally there
shouldn't be any since my hardware firewall is on " tight " highly
secure and should let NO inbound communications pass with no
internal web programs opening the ports )

in this supposedly secure state , Zone Alarm will report as many as
3 attempts per minute , from my ISP to gain access to my computer,
or as many as several hundred attempts per hour. ( on hundreds of
random port numbers ) it shouldn't be possible for people or
equipment to literally " pass through " my LinkSyS firewall router
.... but there it is in " spades " ... just like it wasn't there. it's
not like it's a trojan on my computer or something .... it happening
in the firewall .... but it makes one wonder what program it's trying
to contact on my computer too.
haha ha ahahahaha

I have a number of friends and family members that also use the same
wideband cable company and ALL of them have the same thing
happening at their houses when I check there .
questions to the cable company bring NO return answers.
I have one friend with DSL and even he has the same thing happening.
I have used " Link Ferret " to try to monitor and disclose the data
stream packets and it rarely says more than that a packet passed ( not
identifying them ) or reports a " broadcast " and says nothing more.

additionally the fact that Zone Alarm doesn't report ANY intrusion
attempts when not in the lock state , ( or outgoing comm attempts
either ) must mean that the communications attempts are passing
through Zone Alarm when in the active state too. Soooooooooo
......... whom has the technology AND information to pass right
through both a LinkSyS hardware firewall and a software firewall ???
nothing about this is happening in the hacking circles ...
hummmmmmmmmm ......... interesting stuff. take a minute and
get a free copy of Zone Alarm ( or some other software firewall )
and lock it down and see if you have the same thing happening at YOUR
home location. you might be both surprised and shocked at the
results.

network or wireless net security ..... not exactly ....... maybe
homeland security has gone a bit toooooooo far ..... dunno
but it's all a little scary if that is what it's all about. ( to me
anyway )



k.................






On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:57:59 -0800, "Jason Wagner"
wrote:

" war driving " has been a popular computer eavesdropping and hacking
hobby for some time ... and it isn't even illegal yet. but many

And it can be easily defeated by implementing basic security
measures on the wireless network. Try again?

Sorry, wireless security does not exist.

Krakula is right,

there is very high, technically advanced cottage industry growing
around ways to evesdrop on computers from distance. And people have
found ways to decode the blinking LED lights on a router panel, ways
to evesdrop on the RF coming off a computer monitor such that it is
possible to completely recreate what is on a computer monitor in
another room.

I'm not a paranoia wonk, and this kind of stuff is no where near ready
for the average consumer. Nor is the technology used to spy on the
average person. You can head over to http://www.slashdot.org and
search their discussion archives for these topics, and you'll be
surprised at the techincal discussions that revolve around these
topics.

hth,
jeff


On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:18:18 -0800, Dr. Anton.T. Squeegee
wrote:

In article ,
says...

actually computers and associated equipment can be " easily "
eavesdropped upon ..and a HUGE worldwide industry is based
upon this process. the obvious ways of tapping LAN , WANs, and
telco equipment is one way ... BUT RF and IR ( from pannel mounted
LEDS are other less well know ways.

How, pray tell, is a panel-mounted LED, tied directly to the DC
power output of a power supply, going to emit anything useful?

Also, you didn't read my orginal post far enough. It IS very
possible to eavesdrop on LAN traffic across copper cables via their
emissions. It's just that the equipment it takes to reliably do so, from
any reasonable distance in situations where you do NOT have access to a
direct connection, is well out of the realm of tools that the
'consumer' can easily get (or know how to use).

the most common ways to eavesdrop on computers via RF or IR are to
listen to the immensely powerful raster scan from a computer CRT.

...A method which I'm in doubt even works. Even if there is
something to it, I'll bet it doesn't work with flat-panel displays,
which barely emit anything at all outside of their shielding.

these can be eavesdropped upon from several blocks away with
with a directional antenna. also , optical eavesdropping on pannel
mounted LEDS ( like on a router or other mainframe items ) is another
choice. ( see one through a window !! )

Then I suppose I should be grateful I have obscured glass in the
garage. ;-)

" war driving " has been a popular computer eavesdropping and hacking
hobby for some time ... and it isn't even illegal yet. but many

And it can be easily defeated by implementing basic security
measures on the wireless network. Try again?