Am trying! I dropped the rest of the subject line........ hope it works.

L.

"Tom H" wrote in message
news:EniFd.63129$Xk.40209@pd7tw3no...
Ok, so lets all stop posting to this thread then ...

(joke)


"Lou" wrote in message
o.verio.net...
I don't think it was "you" that "really" did it... Although, a different
name would have certainly killed it, if you were looking for info
regarding your BC250D... But, be that as it may, it could die now.... just
change the subject or drop it!

As to the BC 250D, can't say I've seen one. If it is anything like the
250, I owned one of them and was happy with it.

Lou

"Dave Balcom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:12:32 -0500, "Lou" wrote:

}It DID die a few months ago, til someone revived it recently!

Sorry! I just started following this group a few months ago after
purchasing a BC250D, a fine scanner I might add...

Later,
Dave

Yep, I've absolutely and completely stopped posting to this thread now ...


"Lou" wrote in message
.verio.net...
Am trying! I dropped the rest of the subject line........ hope it works.

L.

"Tom H" wrote in message
news:EniFd.63129$Xk.40209@pd7tw3no...
Ok, so lets all stop posting to this thread then ...

(joke)


"Lou" wrote in message
o.verio.net...
I don't think it was "you" that "really" did it... Although, a different
name would have certainly killed it, if you were looking for info
regarding your BC250D... But, be that as it may, it could die now....
just change the subject or drop it!

As to the BC 250D, can't say I've seen one. If it is anything like the
250, I owned one of them and was happy with it.

Lou

"Dave Balcom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:12:32 -0500, "Lou" wrote:

}It DID die a few months ago, til someone revived it recently!

Sorry! I just started following this group a few months ago after
purchasing a BC250D, a fine scanner I might add...

Later,
Dave

Ok, have it your way. Tell whatever you want. I have no time to waste with
a smart ass.

Just check your info before giving all kinds of false information.






"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:08:41 -0500, "Mastermind" ...@.... wrote:

Sorry,

BUT YOU CANNOT be detain for further investigation by a store security.
Only police can detain for further investigation.

What fantasy world do you live in? You most certainly can be detained by
store security. In every single state.

The store security cannot id you, he can just banned you from the store.

Wrong.

Either he places you under arrest because you shoplift or he let's you go.

Security guards don't have arrest powers (unless you are talking about a
citizen's arrest). Wrong again.

He cannot stop you just because the alarm goes off at the exit of the
store.

You're on a roll. Wrong again.

AND NO you cannot be held by police because you refused to identify to a
security gard.

You're 1/2 right. If you refuse to ID yourself to a security guard, it's
a
moot point since the police are on their way. Once they show up and you
refuse to ID yourself to them, then you get charged. Same end result.

I work for a police department.

Yet you are not a police officer so what's the point?



"anti spamjm" wrote in message
...
Not arrest so much as detain for further investigation.
You can also be detained for failing to comply with the store policy
requiring receipt checks. You could later be arrested and held by
police
for refusing to identify yourself--and yes you will be held until you
can
be positively identified either with or without your cooperation. If
you
don't have time to stand in line--shop elsewhere or don't shop at all.
I'd rather have a bit of inconvenience than higher prices due to theft.

Aside from that I once benefited from the item check at a Costco. It
turned out that the clerk hadn't put several items into my cart after
ringing them in. Small items but about 200 bucks worth of stuff none
the
less. Had they not checked the receipt, I'd have been out 200 bucks.
Next time you rush the lines give thought to that option. It could save
you money.

Tom H wrote:
There most definately IS a point to all of this --- one relating to the
legal balance between privacy vs protection of property (seriously OT,
I
know), a very important point to the loss prevention dept and not
superfluous or trivial at all.
OK, if the penalty for refusing to permit a search is being banned,
every
crook in town will show up one after the other and be subjected to
banning, whilst making off with a ton of plunder in the process.
Lets leave the question of whether or not there is another method of
detecting theft aside (which, duh, of course there is, this is simply a
"just for the sake of argument" question), lets just say the only
method
of detecting theft was the beeper. OK, a guy goes through, beep beep,
"No, I didn't take anything, I'm not submitting.", "You are banned.",
"Fine, see you later ...", and another couple hundred dollars worth of
stuff walks out the door? That doesn't sound right.
My question is: doesn't the fact that the beeper went off give security
the right (Probable cause) to make an arrest, in the event that the
person refuses to submit to a search?

"BTR1701" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"69FLH" wrote:


There's some ****ing people that just have too much time on their
hands.....

Yeah, I don't. That's why I didn't want to wait in the receipt check
line.


"BTR1701" wrote in message
...

In article , "nana"

wrote:


It is a condition of entry and there will be a Notice somewhere
stating
the
fact. If you do not wish to comply, then don't go in. Since you want
to
kick
up a fuss, they can ban you from the store.

How? Not sure how they'd even know who I am. If I don't stop for them
to
check my receipt, I'm sure not going to stop for them to take down my
name and information for future banning purposes and there's no law
that
says I have to.


I understand all these "what if" scenarios, but WHY would you want
to
make a
complete ass of yourself, make yourself known as a troublemaker, get
yourself banned from these stores and besmirch your reputation?

Because it's just one more damn line to stand in. Shopping at Best
buy
this past Christmas, I stood in line to get to the register for over
30
minutes, then when I finally get there and pay for my stuff, I walk
toward the doors only to find another line 20 people deep waiting to
have their receipt checked. At that point, I'd had enough of it and
just
walked around it and out the door.

The clerk guy didn't catch up with me till I was already at my car
and
said he had to check my receipt. I said, no he didn't because if I
hadn't paid for what I walked out with, the alarms would have gone
off.
Since they didn't, I don't need to be searched. I got in my car and
drove off. I broke no law so there's nothing they could do. [And they
had no clue who I was so it's not like they could "ban" me, either.
Of
course, I don't even live in that city so even if they did figure a
way
to ban me, so what?]

And how is that going to "besmirch my reputation"? It's not like the
whole world is going to know I decided to rebel against the receipt
search policy and even if they did, how that makes me look bad such
that
my reputation is besmirched, I'm not sure.

Somehow I think I could live with the "shame".

Mastermind wrote:

Sorry,

BUT YOU CANNOT be detain for further investigation by a store security.
Only police can detain for further investigation.

The store security cannot id you, he can just banned you from the store.
Either he places you under arrest because you shoplift or he let's you go.
He cannot stop you just because the alarm goes off at the exit of the store.
AND NO you cannot be held by police because you refused to identify to a
security gard. Only a police officer can detained you for failure to
indentify to a police officer. If you were arrested by a security guard and
you did not steal nothing, you could bring the company in civil court.

The receipt checking ant the exit alarms are there to help prevent
shoplifting not give a reason for the security agent to search you.

I work for a police department.




"anti spamjm" wrote in message
...

Not arrest so much as detain for further investigation.
You can also be detained for failing to comply with the store policy
requiring receipt checks. You could later be arrested and held by police
for refusing to identify yourself--and yes you will be held until you can
be positively identified either with or without your cooperation. If you
don't have time to stand in line--shop elsewhere or don't shop at all.
I'd rather have a bit of inconvenience than higher prices due to theft.

Aside from that I once benefited from the item check at a Costco. It
turned out that the clerk hadn't put several items into my cart after
ringing them in. Small items but about 200 bucks worth of stuff none the
less. Had they not checked the receipt, I'd have been out 200 bucks.
Next time you rush the lines give thought to that option. It could save
you money.

Tom H wrote:

There most definately IS a point to all of this --- one relating to the
legal balance between privacy vs protection of property (seriously OT, I
know), a very important point to the loss prevention dept and not
superfluous or trivial at all.
OK, if the penalty for refusing to permit a search is being banned, every
crook in town will show up one after the other and be subjected to
banning, whilst making off with a ton of plunder in the process.
Lets leave the question of whether or not there is another method of
detecting theft aside (which, duh, of course there is, this is simply a
"just for the sake of argument" question), lets just say the only method
of detecting theft was the beeper. OK, a guy goes through, beep beep,
"No, I didn't take anything, I'm not submitting.", "You are banned.",
"Fine, see you later ...", and another couple hundred dollars worth of
stuff walks out the door? That doesn't sound right.
My question is: doesn't the fact that the beeper went off give security
the right (Probable cause) to make an arrest, in the event that the
person refuses to submit to a search?

"BTR1701" wrote in message
...


In article ,
"69FLH" wrote:



There's some ****ing people that just have too much time on their
hands.....

Yeah, I don't. That's why I didn't want to wait in the receipt check
line.



"BTR1701" wrote in message
...


In article , "nana"
wrote:



It is a condition of entry and there will be a Notice somewhere
stating
the
fact. If you do not wish to comply, then don't go in. Since you want
to
kick
up a fuss, they can ban you from the store.

How? Not sure how they'd even know who I am. If I don't stop for them
to
check my receipt, I'm sure not going to stop for them to take down my
name and information for future banning purposes and there's no law
that
says I have to.



I understand all these "what if" scenarios, but WHY would you want to
make a
complete ass of yourself, make yourself known as a troublemaker, get
yourself banned from these stores and besmirch your reputation?

Because it's just one more damn line to stand in. Shopping at Best buy
this past Christmas, I stood in line to get to the register for over 30
minutes, then when I finally get there and pay for my stuff, I walk
toward the doors only to find another line 20 people deep waiting to
have their receipt checked. At that point, I'd had enough of it and
just
walked around it and out the door.

The clerk guy didn't catch up with me till I was already at my car and
said he had to check my receipt. I said, no he didn't because if I
hadn't paid for what I walked out with, the alarms would have gone off.
Since they didn't, I don't need to be searched. I got in my car and
drove off. I broke no law so there's nothing they could do. [And they
had no clue who I was so it's not like they could "ban" me, either. Of
course, I don't even live in that city so even if they did figure a way
to ban me, so what?]

And how is that going to "besmirch my reputation"? It's not like the
whole world is going to know I decided to rebel against the receipt
search policy and even if they did, how that makes me look bad such
that
my reputation is besmirched, I'm not sure.

Somehow I think I could live with the "shame".



Huh? Yes you can be detained...No grammar at your police dept? You are
detained by security for further investigation...by police. Hey I've
got an idea. Those that say this and that can't be done...The weekend
is coming. Why not go out, cause a few alarms in the stores and see
what happens. Report back to the group when you get out.

You are flagellating a posthumous equine.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:10:51 -0500, anti spamjm
wrote:

Mastermind wrote:

Sorry,

BUT YOU CANNOT be detain for further investigation by a store security.
Only police can detain for further investigation.

The store security cannot id you, he can just banned you from the store.
Either he places you under arrest because you shoplift or he let's you go.
He cannot stop you just because the alarm goes off at the exit of the store.
AND NO you cannot be held by police because you refused to identify to a
security gard. Only a police officer can detained you for failure to
indentify to a police officer. If you were arrested by a security guard and
you did not steal nothing, you could bring the company in civil court.

The receipt checking ant the exit alarms are there to help prevent
shoplifting not give a reason for the security agent to search you.

I work for a police department.




"anti spamjm" wrote in message
...

Not arrest so much as detain for further investigation.
You can also be detained for failing to comply with the store policy
requiring receipt checks. You could later be arrested and held by police
for refusing to identify yourself--and yes you will be held until you can
be positively identified either with or without your cooperation. If you
don't have time to stand in line--shop elsewhere or don't shop at all.
I'd rather have a bit of inconvenience than higher prices due to theft.

Aside from that I once benefited from the item check at a Costco. It
turned out that the clerk hadn't put several items into my cart after
ringing them in. Small items but about 200 bucks worth of stuff none the
less. Had they not checked the receipt, I'd have been out 200 bucks.
Next time you rush the lines give thought to that option. It could save
you money.

Tom H wrote:

There most definately IS a point to all of this --- one relating to the
legal balance between privacy vs protection of property (seriously OT, I
know), a very important point to the loss prevention dept and not
superfluous or trivial at all.
OK, if the penalty for refusing to permit a search is being banned, every
crook in town will show up one after the other and be subjected to
banning, whilst making off with a ton of plunder in the process.
Lets leave the question of whether or not there is another method of
detecting theft aside (which, duh, of course there is, this is simply a
"just for the sake of argument" question), lets just say the only method
of detecting theft was the beeper. OK, a guy goes through, beep beep,
"No, I didn't take anything, I'm not submitting.", "You are banned.",
"Fine, see you later ...", and another couple hundred dollars worth of
stuff walks out the door? That doesn't sound right.
My question is: doesn't the fact that the beeper went off give security
the right (Probable cause) to make an arrest, in the event that the
person refuses to submit to a search?

"BTR1701" wrote in message
...


In article ,
"69FLH" wrote:



There's some ****ing people that just have too much time on their
hands.....

Yeah, I don't. That's why I didn't want to wait in the receipt check
line.



"BTR1701" wrote in message
...


In article , "nana"
wrote:



It is a condition of entry and there will be a Notice somewhere
stating
the
fact. If you do not wish to comply, then don't go in. Since you want
to
kick
up a fuss, they can ban you from the store.

How? Not sure how they'd even know who I am. If I don't stop for them
to
check my receipt, I'm sure not going to stop for them to take down my
name and information for future banning purposes and there's no law
that
says I have to.



I understand all these "what if" scenarios, but WHY would you want to
make a
complete ass of yourself, make yourself known as a troublemaker, get
yourself banned from these stores and besmirch your reputation?

Because it's just one more damn line to stand in. Shopping at Best buy
this past Christmas, I stood in line to get to the register for over 30
minutes, then when I finally get there and pay for my stuff, I walk
toward the doors only to find another line 20 people deep waiting to
have their receipt checked. At that point, I'd had enough of it and
just
walked around it and out the door.

The clerk guy didn't catch up with me till I was already at my car and
said he had to check my receipt. I said, no he didn't because if I
hadn't paid for what I walked out with, the alarms would have gone off.
Since they didn't, I don't need to be searched. I got in my car and
drove off. I broke no law so there's nothing they could do. [And they
had no clue who I was so it's not like they could "ban" me, either. Of
course, I don't even live in that city so even if they did figure a way
to ban me, so what?]

And how is that going to "besmirch my reputation"? It's not like the
whole world is going to know I decided to rebel against the receipt
search policy and even if they did, how that makes me look bad such
that
my reputation is besmirched, I'm not sure.

Somehow I think I could live with the "shame".



Huh? Yes you can be detained...No grammar at your police dept? You are
detained by security for further investigation...by police. Hey I've
got an idea. Those that say this and that can't be done...The weekend
is coming. Why not go out, cause a few alarms in the stores and see
what happens. Report back to the group when you get out.


I've had the alarm go off several times on leaving a store. Since I
knew I didn't take anything I just kept going, never been stopped. I'm
just waiting for them to try and stop me, will they get a surprise.

----
Dave B

"Some nights are like nothing I've ever seen before or will
again."--Meatloaf

Hey Mark,

What are you ? a Security Guard ?

Pan

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:45:32 -0500, "Mastermind" ...@.... wrote:

Ok, have it your way. Tell whatever you want.

What, the truth? What a novel idea.

I have no time to waste with a smart ass.

Translation: I've got no idea and have been shooting from the hip the
whole
time. I've been called on it and now I'm running away.

Just check your info before giving all kinds of false information.

I would, strongly, suggest you take your own advice.


"Mark" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:08:41 -0500, "Mastermind" ...@.... wrote:

Sorry,

BUT YOU CANNOT be detain for further investigation by a store security.
Only police can detain for further investigation.

What fantasy world do you live in? You most certainly can be detained
by
store security. In every single state.

The store security cannot id you, he can just banned you from the store.

Wrong.

Either he places you under arrest because you shoplift or he let's you
go.

Security guards don't have arrest powers (unless you are talking about a
citizen's arrest). Wrong again.

He cannot stop you just because the alarm goes off at the exit of the
store.

You're on a roll. Wrong again.

AND NO you cannot be held by police because you refused to identify to a
security gard.

You're 1/2 right. If you refuse to ID yourself to a security guard,
it's
a
moot point since the police are on their way. Once they show up and you
refuse to ID yourself to them, then you get charged. Same end result.

I work for a police department.

Yet you are not a police officer so what's the point?

"Tom H" wrote in message
news:PvNEd.49694$6l.47330@pd7tw2no...
There most definately IS a point to all of this --- one relating to the
legal balance between privacy vs protection of property (seriously OT, I
know), a very important point to the loss prevention dept and not
superfluous or trivial at all.
OK, if the penalty for refusing to permit a search is being banned, every
crook in town will show up one after the other and be subjected to
banning,
whilst making off with a ton of plunder in the process.
Lets leave the question of whether or not there is another method of
detecting theft aside (which, duh, of course there is, this is simply a
"just for the sake of argument" question), lets just say the only method
of
detecting theft was the beeper. OK, a guy goes through, beep beep, "No, I
didn't take anything, I'm not submitting.", "You are banned.", "Fine, see
you later ...", and another couple hundred dollars worth of stuff walks
out
the door? That doesn't sound right.
My question is: doesn't the fact that the beeper went off give security
the
right (Probable cause) to make an arrest, in the event that the person
refuses to submit to a search?

No, I unfortunatly have the pleasure of working retail and we use the
detectors. In the state of Florida you may not stop a person on just the
detector device going off you must see the person remove the item and place
it on them too make a stop. The detectors are there too make them think
twice before theft or cut out the item and thus leaving behind the package
too be found and loss control be made better.

scoob


"BTR1701" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"69FLH" wrote:

There's some ****ing people that just have too much time on their
hands.....

Yeah, I don't. That's why I didn't want to wait in the receipt check
line.

"BTR1701" wrote in message
...
In article , "nana"

wrote:

It is a condition of entry and there will be a Notice somewhere
stating
the
fact. If you do not wish to comply, then don't go in. Since you want
to
kick
up a fuss, they can ban you from the store.

How? Not sure how they'd even know who I am. If I don't stop for them
to
check my receipt, I'm sure not going to stop for them to take down my
name and information for future banning purposes and there's no law
that
says I have to.

I understand all these "what if" scenarios, but WHY would you want
to
make a
complete ass of yourself, make yourself known as a troublemaker, get
yourself banned from these stores and besmirch your reputation?

Because it's just one more damn line to stand in. Shopping at Best
buy
this past Christmas, I stood in line to get to the register for over
30
minutes, then when I finally get there and pay for my stuff, I walk
toward the doors only to find another line 20 people deep waiting to
have their receipt checked. At that point, I'd had enough of it and
just
walked around it and out the door.

The clerk guy didn't catch up with me till I was already at my car
and
said he had to check my receipt. I said, no he didn't because if I
hadn't paid for what I walked out with, the alarms would have gone
off.
Since they didn't, I don't need to be searched. I got in my car and
drove off. I broke no law so there's nothing they could do. [And they
had no clue who I was so it's not like they could "ban" me, either.
Of
course, I don't even live in that city so even if they did figure a
way
to ban me, so what?]

And how is that going to "besmirch my reputation"? It's not like the
whole world is going to know I decided to rebel against the receipt
search policy and even if they did, how that makes me look bad such
that
my reputation is besmirched, I'm not sure.

Somehow I think I could live with the "shame".