"Mike Rosenberg" wrote in message
id...
Jeff wrote:

Spoken by a true non-parent.

Except that he _is_ a parent. Now, please don't construe this to mean
I'm taking a stand on what he wrote, but he _is_ a parent.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont care. He obviously is one of the holier than thow types
and doesnt have a realistic grasp of human nature. I know I am most
likely quite senior to him and have seen many, many cases of good-
bad parenting and the results defies his so called pie in the sky attitude
of parent-child relationships. Human nature or parent child relationships
are not mathematical equations where 2 +2 = 4 like he desperately
wants everyone to believe, by his rantings. Quite honestly he comes
accross as a cross posting lunatic.

Jeff


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:12:30 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
wrote:


So if you thought your daughter was dating a "bad boy" type who was no
good for her, you'd eavesdrop on their phone conversations and try to
intervene?

Not me. Some things people just have to learn for themselves.

--
Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Too bad you contradict yourself in every message you post.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:50:37 GMT, "Jeff"
wrote:


"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message ...
wrote:



Because the treatment of the child is wholly responsible for how
the child treats the parent and in fact wholly JUSTIFIES that same
treatment!! YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE FROM YOUR KIDS! If you can't
trust them, YOU did it! If they hate you, YOU MADE THEM! If you
were unable to justify their love for you, then you deserve their
hate!! If you don't give them what you were supposed to, AND in a
mode and manner so that they WANTED TO RECEIVE AND ACCEPT IT, then
you DESERVE ALL the results!!

Anyone who pretends they deserve to GET differently than they GAVE,
is LYING! If you can't incur the love of your children so that they
want you PROTECTED, then you don't DESERVE IT!!
Steve
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

Spoken by a true non-parent. You are so full of **** you must
have brown eyes. Parents can and some do "everything" right and still
have a problem child,,, obviously you have NO experience at this or
your kids are in the less than 10 age which is when some really start to
rebel. All of your stupid all caps remarks and all the stupid exclamation
marks tells me you have an agenda,, or are you a 16 year old.
What a dumb ass. Read a book dumb****.

Jeff


Reading a book is probably part of the problem, not a solution. It
sounds like everything he knows is based on books he has read, with no
real experience to show the difference between theory and practice.

Jeff wrote:

Except that he _is_ a parent. Now, please don't construe this to mean
I'm taking a stand on what he wrote, but he _is_ a parent.

I dont care. He obviously is one of the holier than thow types
and doesnt have a realistic grasp of human nature.

Ah, now that's a whole different thing altogether.

Quite honestly he comes accross as a cross posting lunatic.

A lunatic perhaps, but not a cross-posting one. When you see him
cross-posting, it's because he's responding to a message that's already
cross-posted.

--
Mike Rosenberg
http://www.macconsult.com Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
http://bogart-tribute.net Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
Toyota Prius fans: Check out alt.autos.toyota.prius

"Bob Ward" wrote in message news
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:50:37 GMT, "Jeff"
wrote:



Because the treatment of the child is wholly responsible for how
the child treats the parent and in fact wholly JUSTIFIES that same
treatment!! YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE FROM YOUR KIDS! If you can't
trust them, YOU did it! If they hate you, YOU MADE THEM! If you
were unable to justify their love for you, then you deserve their
hate!! If you don't give them what you were supposed to, AND in a
mode and manner so that they WANTED TO RECEIVE AND ACCEPT IT, then
you DESERVE ALL the results!!

Anyone who pretends they deserve to GET differently than they GAVE,
is LYING! If you can't incur the love of your children so that they
want you PROTECTED, then you don't DESERVE IT!!
Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---

Spoken by a true non-parent. You are so full of **** you must
have brown eyes. Parents can and some do "everything" right and still
have a problem child,,, obviously you have NO experience at this or
your kids are in the less than 10 age which is when some really start to
rebel. All of your stupid all caps remarks and all the stupid exclamation
marks tells me you have an agenda,, or are you a 16 year old.
What a dumb ass. Read a book dumb****.

Jeff


Reading a book is probably part of the problem, not a solution. It
sounds like everything he knows is based on books he has read, with no
real experience to show the difference between theory and practice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

You may very well be right on that point.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004

Jeff wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

Because the treatment of the child is wholly responsible for how
the child treats the parent and in fact wholly JUSTIFIES that same
treatment!! YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE FROM YOUR KIDS! If you can't
trust them, YOU did it! If they hate you, YOU MADE THEM! If you
were unable to justify their love for you, then you deserve their
hate!! If you don't give them what you were supposed to, AND in a
mode and manner so that they WANTED TO RECEIVE AND ACCEPT IT, then
you DESERVE ALL the results!!

Anyone who pretends they deserve to GET differently than they GAVE,
is LYING! If you can't incur the love of your children so that they
want you PROTECTED, then you don't DESERVE IT!!
Steve

Spoken by a true non-parent.
-----------------
You're delusionally wrong. I've got two raised and off on their own
in their late twenties and early thirties. Son 31 and daughter 28.


You are so full of **** you must
have brown eyes.
-----------------
The only **** you see is in YOUR head, behind YOUR eyes.


Parents can and some do "everything" right and still
have a problem child,,,
--------------------
Nope, nonsense, never ever seen it.

In fact, what you think doing "everything right" then
MUST BE WRONG, ****head!!

You have some psychologically DEFECTIVE pet notions that
YOU just don't want to see go down in FLAMES, but they do!
They really do!:

You see, control freaks like you **** up everything
you touch, your marriages, your children, your lives.


obviously you have NO experience at this
----------------------
WWRRRRONNGGGGOOO!!!!


or
your kids are in the less than 10 age
------------------------
WWRRROONNGGOO AGAIN!!!!


which is when some really start to rebel.
----------------------------
Hint!: Hey, King Big****.
Your "colonists" don't rebel unless you TREAT THEM LIKE ****!

Mine didn't at ALL, because they NEVER HAD TO!
It isn't a necessity, you know!
Well no, you don't know, do you?

Rebellion is a symptom of ABUSE in a chronically child-abusive
culture like THIS one!


All of your stupid all caps remarks and all the stupid exclamation
marks tells me you have an agenda,
-------------------------------
Damn straight, the RIGHT ONE!
I want to see the people like you who **** up children STOPPED!


or are you a 16 year old.
-------------------------
Nope, born in 1950. I'm 54.


What a dumb ass. Read a book dumb****.
Jeff
-----------------------------
Already read them.
(Also wrote some big hunks of several others.)

And if YOU had you'd know that they agree with ME,
you child-abusive dip****.
Steve

Jeff wrote:

"Mike Rosenberg" wrote in message
id...
Jeff wrote:

Spoken by a true non-parent.

Except that he _is_ a parent. Now, please don't construe this to mean
I'm taking a stand on what he wrote, but he _is_ a parent.


I dont care. He obviously is one of the holier than thow types
and doesnt have a realistic grasp of human nature.
-----------------
You mean I'm someone you SHOULD have learned respect for and just
admitted that I'm someone who had learned more than you and from
whom you should learn. But you're such an ill-raised little egotist
that it would damage you emotionally to permit that awareness.

Like most emotionally immature Americans you fancy that anyone who
disagrees with your grunting inability to express yourself at depth,
or anyone who thinks deeply on an issue, is "unrealistic", which
actually means that you're alienated from the truth about your
sick sick culture.


I know I am most
likely quite senior to him
-----------------
Are you over 54? And are you actually mature? I doubt it.


and have seen many, many cases of good-
bad parenting and the results defies his so called pie in the sky attitude
of parent-child relationships.
-----------------
The pie isn't in the sky if you get to eat it, moron.
The pie is quite tasty for me and MY family, yours is sour grapes!

Don't tell us it can't be done merely because YOU don't
want to do it the right way!


Human nature or parent child relationships
are not mathematical equations where 2 +2 = 4 like he desperately
wants everyone to believe, by his rantings.
--------------------
The math works just fine for anyone who doesn't have your neurotic
emotionally defective agenda against accepting it. Abusers always
want to claim that "ideal methods of treating others don't really
work" when what they mean is that they couldn't stop themselves
from misbehaving and abusing others!!


Quite honestly he comes accross as a cross posting lunatic.
Jeff
-----------------------
Criminals personalities always think juries and judges are insane.

I post here, if others add newsgroups to annoy or attract others,
I ignore them.
Steve

"R. Steve Walz" wrote in message ...



Because the treatment of the child is wholly responsible for how
the child treats the parent and in fact wholly JUSTIFIES that same
treatment!! YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE FROM YOUR KIDS! If you can't
trust them, YOU did it! If they hate you, YOU MADE THEM! If you
were unable to justify their love for you, then you deserve their
hate!! If you don't give them what you were supposed to, AND in a
mode and manner so that they WANTED TO RECEIVE AND ACCEPT IT, then
you DESERVE ALL the results!!

Anyone who pretends they deserve to GET differently than they GAVE,
is LYING! If you can't incur the love of your children so that they
want you PROTECTED, then you don't DESERVE IT!!
Steve

Spoken by a true non-parent.
-----------------
You're delusionally wrong. I've got two raised and off on their own
in their late twenties and early thirties. Son 31 and daughter 28.


You are so full of **** you must
have brown eyes.
-----------------
The only **** you see is in YOUR head, behind YOUR eyes.


Parents can and some do "everything" right and still
have a problem child,,,
--------------------
Nope, nonsense, never ever seen it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just becuase you have never seen it doesnt mean it never
happens. It most certainly does happen,, more than "you" may
think, in that tiny little pompous ass brain of yours. Go spend some
time at a counselling facility for kids and just see how kids can
choose the wrong path in life all by themselves. They're not abused
or mistreated kids, many come from very normal loving homes,
Christian homes where the parents really do practice what they
preach. FYI I work in hospital enviroment and have for more
than 20 years now, and I see this kind of stuff quite often.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In fact, what you think doing "everything right" then
MUST BE WRONG, ****head!!

You have some psychologically DEFECTIVE pet notions that
YOU just don't want to see go down in FLAMES, but they do!
They really do!:

You see, control freaks like you **** up everything
you touch, your marriages, your children, your lives.

obviously you have NO experience at this
----------------------
WWRRRRONNGGGGOOO!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You post all this "crap" in the manner that you post it with
all your "all caps" and stupid exclamation points and you expect
"anybody" to believe you. And you call ME a control freak??
Again what an absolute pompous ass. I would suggest you
are the acting control freak here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


which is when some really start to rebel.
----------------------------
Hint!: Hey, King Big****.
Your "colonists" don't rebel unless you TREAT THEM LIKE ****!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely untrue,, rebelling is actually quite normal for preteens
and teens, its part of growing up and establishing their own
independence. Its what a parent does about it that counts.
Like I said get a real education on the subject.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mine didn't at ALL, because they NEVER HAD TO!
It isn't a necessity, you know!
Well no, you don't know, do you?

Rebellion is a symptom of ABUSE in a chronically child-abusive
culture like THIS one!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What total BS this is,, all rebellion is from abuse huh. Now you
have just blown any tiny little shred of credibility you "may" have had,
blown,,, gone . Like I said before read a book, get a life
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of your stupid all caps remarks and all the stupid exclamation
marks tells me you have an agenda,
-------------------------------
Damn straight, the RIGHT ONE!
I want to see the people like you who **** up children STOPPED!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My kids are all grown and gone,, all of them are decent
law abiding, tax paying, successful citizens. They arent screwed
up freaks like you are soooo desperately trying to imply. Man
you must come from the twilight zone or somewhere. The mere
fact that you are trying to imply my kids are mental defectives
because of my parenting skills without knowing a thing about
me or my familiy really speaks volumes about YOU.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And if YOU had you'd know that they agree with ME,
you child-abusive dip****.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus you are quite taken with yourself arent you?? Once again
you call me a control freak????? You call me a child abuser?? Do you
know my distant past??? have you spoken with my children??? NO .
You are full of nothing more than conjecture and inuendo, nothing
more. There is only one thing worse than a pompous ass, and that is
a self righteous, indignant pompous ass,, kinda like you stevie
Oh and welcome to my killfile, you truly arent worth my time. I dont
debate with unrealistic, narcissistic, asses like you


Jeff


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 11/26/2004

In article ,
"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

When one of my children was clearly getting out of control, I handled it
differently: I TOLD her that her behavior had cost her her privacy
rights, and that I would search her room or listen in on her phone calls
at my discretion.

I did not want to prevent her from ever using the phone -- she did have
some friends who were good for her -- but continuing to eavesdrop from
time to time kept me aware of what she was doing.
--------------------------
People who dishonor their children that way GET dishonored BY their
children. A friend of mine who hated her father used to plant things
in her father's sock drawer for her mother to find, receipts carefully
altered, porno, etc. Those who **** with their kids are destined to be
****ed BY their kids.
Steve

Steve, I started out honoring her: I had to change my ways when she
started DIShonoring me (and herself) and doing things that were
dangerous. I did what I felt I had to do to keep her alive -- and that
is NOT an exageration. It turned out she was severely depressed, but
adolescent depression manifests in odd ways, which I did not recognize:
in her case, it was mostly phenominal anger along with acting out.

And I think violating their privacy OPENLY does honor them -- you tell
them what you are doing, and why, and don't hide it. Sneaking is
dishonorable, but I never did that.

FWIW, it worked: I managed to keep her out of several really dangerous
situations, and eventually, the depression was diagnosed and
appropriately treated. She's almost 19 now, not anxious to move out,
going to college, and just came in, told me I looked wonderful, gave me
a kiss on the cheek, agreed to drop me off later today (so DH and I
wouldn't be somewhere with two cars; as a side benefit, it means she
gets to use MY car for the rest of the day), and stayed for a short chat
with me (and her boyfriend) before the two of them went back to her room.

I think our relationship is good.

I know you think your kids never got into serious trouble because you
are such a wonderful parent. It's a lovely theory. But at some point,
other things influence your kids as well -- and when things start to go
badly, you sometimes need different tools.

I remember one conversation with this particular daughter, where I said
that, in spite of everything, I thought I'd been a pretty good parent.
She said, "In spite of WHAT?" I didn't want to be insulting -- I mean,
what could I say? After a moment, I said, "In spite of the fact that
my kid's lives are not exactly what I'd dreamed they'd be." She put her
hands on her hips and said, "Well! YOUR job isn't to dream for us.
YOUR job is to just keep us alive until we grow up enough to have our
OWN dreams."

I figure as long as a teenager can put me in my appropriate place like
that, I've done a pretty good job of parenting. Not perfect, Lord
knows, but pretty good.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 02:45:08 GMT, "R. Steve Walz"
wrote:


Parents can and some do "everything" right and still
have a problem child,,,
--------------------
Nope, nonsense, never ever seen it.

I had a neighbor with 3 daughters and a son. The son and one of the
daughters were twins. The parents and the daughters were nice people;
polite, friendly, religious. Excellent neighbors in every way. The
son? At his 14th birthday he informed his parents that he was now an
"adult" and would no longer listen to or obey his parents. He was
into drugs & alcohol, running with a "bad crowd". In short, a thug.
At the age of 16, the son attacked my wife and beat her almost to
death. His reason? he was "mad at the world" and took it out on the
first person he saw, my wife. He was recently paroled after serving 8
years for the assault. Did these parents do "everything" right with
the daughters, and "everything" wrong with the son?


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Professional Shop Rat: 14,542 days in a GM plant.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -