I can't for the life of me understand why there is so much concern over
learning code. After 20 yrs in radiation physics (ionizing, not RF
communications) as a living, I finally decided to go for an amature
radio license. It wasn't until I got here that I learned about this
rift in the community (I have seen it in a few places)....granted it
may be a few spirited individuals on each side that perpetuate this
argument of learning code. I'm very dismayed by this rift, I wanted to
join a fellow group of RF communication enthusianists. I don't need a
segration here too...there is enough of that society already, I don't
need that in a hobby too. I hear my family calling....thats were my
time needs to be spent.
Bruce
Duluth, MN

Slow Code wrote:
Just thought you should know that.


Help save Ham radio and ignore Markie to save
usenet. Thanks


1- No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all
elements required for their license class every ten years.


2- The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%.


3- Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra.


4- Make the no-code license one year non-renewable.


5- Cancel your ARRL membership until they decide to work to improve
things and stop them from proposing ham radio that is like CB.

On 24 Jul 2006 21:57:39 -0700, "BruceMN44" wrote:

argument of learning code. I'm very dismayed by this rift, I wanted to
join a fellow group of RF communication enthusianists. I don't need a
segration here too...there is enough of that society already, I don't
need that in a hobby too.

There are rifts in all hobbies.

....Would any of you say that Heathkit, of Benton Harbour, Michigan, maybe
perpetuated the glamour within the ham hobby of the recent past, or did the
glamour of the ham hobby past perpetuate Heathkit until there was no more
glamour?

Jack

"Al Klein" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:49:35 -0400, "J. D. B."
wrote:

Young people see our hobby as outdated and the CW testing requirement
reinforces that. What to see a huge drop in licenses? Bring back CW
testing for all licenses and raise the speeds again. There will be
hardly any new licenses issued if someone made such a gross and stupid
error in judgement.

The drop started MANY years before CW was dropped. Want to increase
the number of hams? Eliminate cellular phones (a lot of people got on
the air to have communications in the car) and the internet - since
those are two of the prime causes of lack of interest in ham radio
today.

CW testing has nothing to do with knowing how the radio works or how it
operates.

But many of the same people who want to eliminate CW also want to
eliminate any tests that would really test for knowledge. It's not CW
they want to eliminate, it's effort. You can cheat on written tests
but, since you can't cheat much on CW (although some have), they want
it eliminated. Not just kept for one class of license. What's wrong
with code-free HF, but an additional class with, say, a 20wpm CW test?
It would have nothing to do with the number of people becoming hams.
But those who are opposed to CW testing are opposed to ALL CW testing.
Getting on the air - with the highest class license available is, to
them, their right.

It's like people who are adamantly opposed to having driver's licenses
revoked because "driving is a right".

Sorry, but getting on the public airwaves is not a right.

Besides, since the US is a democracy, the ham bands will turn into
whatever we let it turn into because the majority rules

Democracy is a form of government that protects the minority from the
excesses of the majority - the majority doesn't need protection from
itself.

interesting thread,

I gues I could be considered a real ham ^ 3 power,

it took me three times to pass my cw test...

but I got my general written the first time.

I enjoy cw and all modes. lets use what we like to use.

73 to all

Really? My other hobby is model trains and I have never seen a rift in
model trains in 45 years.

Ham Radio has rifts only because some people feel they are better than
others and try to impose their will and superiority over others.
Usually over a CW testing requirement, being able to repair old,
outdated tube crap, and how fast one can send and receiver an old mode
of communication. They feel that just because someone can't send and
receive CW that they are somehow inferior. It is such foolishness. But
hang in there. These old, unbending old-timers are dying off and
eventually hams will all be united again promoting the service/hobby and
joining the national organization in support of the service/hobby. I
guess that's why God does not have people living forever. Death has a
way of cleansing the hobby of the old, outdated, and outmoded.

Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jul 2006 21:57:39 -0700, "BruceMN44" wrote:

argument of learning code. I'm very dismayed by this rift, I wanted to
join a fellow group of RF communication enthusianists. I don't need a
segration here too...there is enough of that society already, I don't
need that in a hobby too.

There are rifts in all hobbies.

In 1964 I passed the 13 WPM test on the first try at the Dallas FCC office.
I was 14. There are plenty who can top that, I'm sure.

The rulemakers "stabbed themselves in the back with their own ballpoints"
(To quote an article from Electronics World in 1962.) when they created CB.
But, as said article went on to point out, the industry needed a shot in the
arm. That article has stuck in my head to this day.

This isn't about creating the best operators, it's about selling the most
junk and having the most votes.

73
H.
NQ5H

Al, you and the rest of the old farts want CW to keep ham radio from
becoming like CB - right? CW does not keep people from using radios, it
keeps people from seeking a amateur radio license. You and the rest of
the crusty old and out-dated hams think that CW is kind of a filter or
the price of admission. It's an over-rated and over-priced ticket.

CBers do not have to have a good knowledge of electronics and
propagation to use the radio because there is little else for them to
venture into - unlike ham radio. But then again, there are darn few
CBers anymore. You, like many other crusty old hams, hang onto this
notion that there are so many CBers out there and that the CB band is
still out of control like it was 25 years ago. It's not. It's somewhat
quiet as people have left CB behind just like they are leaving ham radio
behind - but each for different reasons. CB because cell phones have
replaced its usage and the speed limit isn't 55 anymore. Ham radio has
been left behind because of its image as a hobby for morse code freaks
and glowing tubes. The CW testing requirement just reinforces that belief.

Old fart crusty hams like yourself who continue to promote CW and CW
testing keep reinforcing the belief that the hobby is old and crusty
like yourselves and keep people out in favor of other interest where
they don't have to take a test to get involved and have fun.

I am not destroying any argument, you just cannot follow simple logic.
Face it, we can spar back and forth on this forever. The reality is
that CW testing in the US is going to die soon. You cannot stop the
change. Most of the rest of the world has already changed - the US
cannot be far behind. Be it now, or ten years from now, CW testing is
going to be gone, out of here, adios, good riddance and so long.
Hopefully it will not happen too late. The longer the CW requirement
remains, the closer ham radio is to death.

Al Klein wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:56:58 -0400, "J. D. B."
wrote:

Yup, that's what I also believe. Get people into the service and they
will start learning what they need to know on their own.

What color is the sky on your world? (If you were correct, most CBers
would have a pretty good knowledge of electronics and propagation.)

So not only are people avoiding ham radio, they are also avoiding CB.

So how does CW enter into things?

Find a new argument Al for keeping people out of ham radio will you?

Oh? It's not MY argument that CW keeps people from using radios, it's
YOURS! And you just destroyed your own best argument.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:34:17 -0400, "J. D. B."
wrote:

Really? My other hobby is model trains and I have never seen a rift in
model trains in 45 years.

So which is *really* the best gauge to model? Is it okay if you buy
kits, or aren't you a real rail hobbyist unless you make at least all
your cars from scratch? Or do you have to build your own engines from
scratch too? Etc., etc.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:36:06 -0500, "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H"
wrote:

This isn't about creating the best operators, it's about selling the most
junk and having the most votes.

But "the hobby will die" and "we need qualified operators" sounds so
much nicer than "the manufacturers need more money".

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:36:26 -0400, "J. D. B."
wrote:

Al, you and the rest of the old farts want CW to keep ham radio from
becoming like CB - right?

Wrong. I want ham radio to stop being what it's been for the last
couple of decades - CB on different frequencies. There are CBers who
are competent communications engineers, but the majority today - CB or
ham band - want to buy a radio and put it on the air. Any license
requirement is just an annoyance they get around any way they can -
except by actually studying and learning enough to pass tests.

Take a close look at a General test from the 50s and one from today.
The difference isn't that the current one dropped old technical
questions and added equivalent questions about modern modes - it's
that the current test has dropped the technical requirement low enough
that it's a joke. Everyone says that CW is old hat and modern modes
have replaced it. Okay - let's see a question asking for a PSK
interface schematic, including full isolation. That's just simple
audio and DC stuff. Let's have questions on Rayleigh fading and its
effect on maximum usable baud rate at various frequencies, so no one
complains about the FCC not giving us permission to run 9600 bps on
20. Modern stuff.

And no more published answers.

Then let's see how many people talk about "modern" and how many yell
"too difficult - there's no reason to know all this stuff". Which is
why, on SWL fora, you'll see people complaining that they listened all
day on 4.2 MHz and only heard noise. Or tried to get some foreign
broadcast station up above 15 MHz all night and couldn't.

It's the "why doesn't this work, and don't give me any of that
technical BS" syndrome. People don't want to know how things work, or
why they don't work, but they're angry that they don't. And don't you
dare tell anyone it's his fault for trying to receive a 440 repeater
80 miles away with a 1/4 wave antenna 5 feet off the ground. His
friend, just 3 doors down, copies the repeater S9+ (with a dual 11
element beam 75 feet in the air and LMR600 coax). Now, without any
technical BS or monetary expenditure, what does he have to do to
receive it?

It's not that no one ever pulled that stuff 50 years ago - but it was
so far in the minority that it was below the noise level. Today it's
the majority of newcomers. "I have a right to use the public
airwaves, and I don't want to have to learn anything."