HFguy wrote:
David wrote:
On 22 Dec 2006 19:08:58 -0800, "RHF"
wrote:



QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?


25 g steel wire from the hardware store is very strong. Braided
chandelier wire is also very nice.

How do you maintain a low resistance connection to steel wire which is
outside in the elements?


Wirenuts with a synthetic grease always worked for me. I"ve seen
solder jobs potted in silicone. There are a number of solutions to that
kind of a problem.

I recently had the opportunity to drive through one of the
neighborhoods of my distant past. I hadn't lived there since 66. The
house was still there, in a about the same shape as we'd left it. The
screen door on the front still had the number plate I'd made in Cub
Scouts...pressed quilted aluminum sheets in natural color with black
cursive digits framed with aluminum scroll.

The owners were gracious enough to give me a brief tour.

It hadn't really been changed much at all.

And hanging under the eave where my bedroom had been was the steel
wire antenna I had used for my Remco crystal set. It has been painted
over a couple of times, but the steel wire, the original plastic
insulators (stamped REMCO), were still there. Apparently in use by one
of the kids in the house.

Memories.


The connection to an outdoor steel wire is a lot less problematic than
it would appear.

RHF wrote:
- You do want to use solid wire since the signals are collected
- on the surface of the wire for the best results.

QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?

let the debate begin ~ RHF

If the signals are collected on the surface of the wire, wouldn't you
want to use *stranded* wire? For the same gauge, it would have a
greater surface area.

Due to the skin effect I would suggest stranded would also have lower
resistance: lower losses delivering the signal from the outer parts of
the antenna to the feedline.

But I believe the difference is negligible. Really, the only
consideration for a receiving antenna should be mechanical: how hard is
it to get the antenna strung and will it *stay* strung once you string it?

I use #14 stranded, sold at Home Depot for home wiring.

I do have a 700' Beverage using solid aluminum electric fence wire.
ONLY because it was dirt cheap. The stuff is really hard to work with.
(and I managed to snap it twice trying to pull it through the woods)

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

In article ,
Doug Smith W9WI wrote:

RHF wrote:
- You do want to use solid wire since the signals are collected
- on the surface of the wire for the best results.

QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?

let the debate begin ~ RHF

If the signals are collected on the surface of the wire, wouldn't you
want to use *stranded* wire? For the same gauge, it would have a
greater surface area.

Due to the skin effect I would suggest stranded would also have lower
resistance: lower losses delivering the signal from the outer parts of
the antenna to the feedline.

But I believe the difference is negligible. Really, the only
consideration for a receiving antenna should be mechanical: how hard is
it to get the antenna strung and will it *stay* strung once you string it?

I use #14 stranded, sold at Home Depot for home wiring.

I do have a 700' Beverage using solid aluminum electric fence wire.
ONLY because it was dirt cheap. The stuff is really hard to work with.
(and I managed to snap it twice trying to pull it through the woods)

What makes the skin effect occur is electrons repulsing each other. The
higher the frequency the higher the electric field flux so the
electrons tend to occupy the conductor outer skin. Even with multiple
insulated conductors bundled together the electrons would only occupy
the outside of the most outside conductors at higher frequencies.
Multi-stranded wire will not help once you go above a certain
frequency. You would have to calculate using the frequency of operation
and the size of each strand with the number of strands to know if a
litz type wire will help you increase the conductance of a wire path.

Usually this number is less then a few megahertz for most available
litz wire so that type of wire is useful for AMBCB and lower frequencies.

If the conductors are not insulated from each other then they act as one
conductor.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

D Peter Maus wrote:

HFguy wrote:

David wrote:

On 22 Dec 2006 19:08:58 -0800, "RHF"
wrote:

QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?


25 g steel wire from the hardware store is very strong. Braided
chandelier wire is also very nice.

How do you maintain a low resistance connection to steel wire which is
outside in the elements?

Wirenuts with a synthetic grease always worked for me. I"ve seen solder
jobs potted in silicone. There are a number of solutions to that kind of
a problem.

The connection to an outdoor steel wire is a lot less problematic than
it would appear.

I don't think I would trust anything less than a welded or brazed
connection over the long term.

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 02:46:56 GMT, HFguy wrote:

D Peter Maus wrote:

HFguy wrote:

David wrote:

On 22 Dec 2006 19:08:58 -0800, "RHF"
wrote:

QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?


25 g steel wire from the hardware store is very strong. Braided
chandelier wire is also very nice.

How do you maintain a low resistance connection to steel wire which is
outside in the elements?

Wirenuts with a synthetic grease always worked for me. I"ve seen solder
jobs potted in silicone. There are a number of solutions to that kind of
a problem.

The connection to an outdoor steel wire is a lot less problematic than
it would appear.

I don't think I would trust anything less than a welded or brazed
connection over the long term.

My Palomar MLB uses tinned stranded wire for the HiZ side and this
solders nicely to shiny steel. I then cover with 3M putty (aka CoAx
Seal) and some 33+. Excellent connection and quite windproof.

David wrote:
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 02:46:56 GMT, HFguy wrote:


D Peter Maus wrote:


HFguy wrote:


David wrote:


On 22 Dec 2006 19:08:58 -0800, "RHF"
wrote:


QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?


25 g steel wire from the hardware store is very strong. Braided
chandelier wire is also very nice.

How do you maintain a low resistance connection to steel wire which is
outside in the elements?

Wirenuts with a synthetic grease always worked for me. I"ve seen solder
jobs potted in silicone. There are a number of solutions to that kind of
a problem.

The connection to an outdoor steel wire is a lot less problematic than
it would appear.

I don't think I would trust anything less than a welded or brazed
connection over the long term.


My Palomar MLB uses tinned stranded wire for the HiZ side and this
solders nicely to shiny steel. I then cover with 3M putty (aka CoAx
Seal) and some 33+. Excellent connection and quite windproof.

What kind of solder? Any special flux or paste used?

Solid steel wire.None of that sissy greasy kid stuff stranded ''wire''
for me.
cuhulin

= = = On Dec 23, 5:55Â*am, Carter-k8vt wrote:
RHF wrote:
QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?Electrically, I believe that there is no detectable difference.

Mechanically, stranded wire is used in situations where vibration and/or
flexing is present. Needles to say, an outdoor (as opposed to an attic)
antenna is subject to flexing and thus IMHO, stranded wire would be the
better choice.

Now, you didn't ask about insulated vs. non-insulated wire or regular
wire vs. 'Copperweld' (tm). Saving those for another debate, are we?

:-)

Carter
K8VT

Carter [K8VT],

Yes most Solid or Stranded Wire may have very little
'difference' Electrically as a Wire Antenna Element.
And Yes - Stranded Wire of the same Size usually is
more durable then Solid Wire.

EXCEPT - For Stranded "Litz" Wire which has each Strand
Insulated from the others and thus has a much greater RF
Surface Area for a given Size OD Stranded Wire Bundle.

ABOUT - Litzendraht Wire [ LITZ WIRE ]
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/litz.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire

TIP - WHEN TO USE LITZ WIRE :
* For short [ under 30-Feet ] Shortwave Listening (SWL)
Antennas - Consider using Litz Wire as the Multi-Wire
Antenna Element.
* For In-the-Attic -and- In-the-Room Shortwave Listening
(SWL) Antennas - Consider using Litz Wire as the Multi-Wire
Antenna Element.
* For Under-the-Eaves and Hidden [Stealth] No-See-Em
Shortwave Listening (SWL) Antennas - Consider using
Litz Wire as the Multi-Wire Antenna Element.

While it is not Litz Wire "Flex-Weave" Antenna Wire
is easy to work with and durable.
FLEX-WEAVE = http://www.davisrf.com/ham1/flexweve.htm
* Flex-Weave Antenna Wire is a sophisticated "Hybrid"
Aerial Wire.
* Flex-Weave Antenna Wire is sometimes referred to
as "Wire Rope" Ulta-Flexible Aerial Wire.
* Flex-Weave comes in # 14 AWG Wire composed
of 168 Individual Strands of # 36 AWG Wire.
- Bare Wire -or- Insulated Wire -
- - - HEY ! - You Can Always Say : " My Shortwave Listening
Antenna - I Use Flex-Weave ".

ABOUT - Litzendraht Wire [ LITZ WIRE ] - TIP - When To Use Litz Wire
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw.../message/11774
.
.
staying flexable and weaving my words - iane ~ RHF
.
.
I-B Somewhere on "The Big Blue Marble"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Marble
{ Earth - The Third Planet from the Sun }
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_planet_from_the_Sun
.
Shortwave Listener Antennas = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
SWL Antenna Group = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
The Shortwave Listener's Blessing :
SWL BLESSING = http://tinyurl.com/s2bjm
May You Never Tire of Listening to the Radio and Always
have Strong Signals and Noise Free Reception ~ RHF {ibid}
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...a/message/9233
.
Tous Sont Bienvenus ! - - - Groupe par Radio
d'auditeur d'onde courte pour des Antennes de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Alle Sind Willkommen ! - - - Shortwave Radiozuhörer
Gruppe für SWL Antennen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Tutti Sono Benvenuti ! - - - Gruppo Radiofonico
dell'ascoltatore di onda corta per le Antenne di SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Todos São Bem-vindos ! - - - Grupo de Rádio
do ouvinte do Shortwave para Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Ð’Ñ�е Ð*адушны ! - - - Группа оператора
на приеме коротковолнового диапазона
Radio дл� Aнтенн SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
¡Todos Son Agradables! - - - Grupo de Radio del oyente
de la onda corta para las Antenas de SWL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
= = = = Plain Old American-English Translation = = = =
All are Welcome - - - To Join the Shortwave Listeners
(SWL) Antenna Group on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
|
|
|
/ \
........!.......

On Dec 23, 6:40 am, dxAce wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Dec 22, 7:29 am, Keith wrote:
In article ,

"Lenny" wrote:
Hey, thanks for the quick response RHF.
I'm also thinking about putting up a random wire antenna.
Exactly how do you attach the wire to the coax feed? You will need an antenna tuner AKA transmatch or a balun.

And is there a best antenna wire to use?What matters is the length and construction used to make the wire. You
can use insulated wire to help hide the wire from neighbors if you need
to.

- You do want to use solid wire since the signals are collected
- on the surface of the wire for the best results.

QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?

- I use #10 stranded and insulated here.
-
- dxAce
- Michigan
- USA

DX Ace - Straight from the Hardware Store ? ) ~ RHF

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 03:54:17 GMT, HFguy wrote:

David wrote:
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 02:46:56 GMT, HFguy wrote:


D Peter Maus wrote:


HFguy wrote:


David wrote:


On 22 Dec 2006 19:08:58 -0800, "RHF"
wrote:


QUESTION - What's Your Opinion "Antenna Wire" : Solid -or- Stranded ?


25 g steel wire from the hardware store is very strong. Braided
chandelier wire is also very nice.

How do you maintain a low resistance connection to steel wire which is
outside in the elements?

Wirenuts with a synthetic grease always worked for me. I"ve seen solder
jobs potted in silicone. There are a number of solutions to that kind of
a problem.

The connection to an outdoor steel wire is a lot less problematic than
it would appear.

I don't think I would trust anything less than a welded or brazed
connection over the long term.


My Palomar MLB uses tinned stranded wire for the HiZ side and this
solders nicely to shiny steel. I then cover with 3M putty (aka CoAx
Seal) and some 33+. Excellent connection and quite windproof.

What kind of solder? Any special flux or paste used?

No. Please read below and note that tin, lead and steel are adjacent
in the galvanic order:

''There is a direct relationship between various types of dissimilar
metals when they are mated. Some dissimliar metals, such as copper and
brass, when mated cause very little corrosion. There are other metals,
however, that react most harshly when matched. Zinc and brass, for
example, will cause corrosion with the zinc metal quickly breaking
down. If you wish to prevent galvanic corrosion the best means, of
course, is to use the same metal throughout your construction. If this
is not possible your next course of action would be to assemble
materials that have a close relationship on a galvanic metals table.
Here is a descending list of metals and their associated relationships
in order of the most "noble" or least active.


least active

gold

silver
silver solder
bronze
copper
brass
nickel (plating)

tin
lead
lead-tin solder
stainless steel
iron/steel

aluminum alloys
aluminum
zinc-galvanized steel

most active

zinc




When choosing materials you should try to pick a metal part made from
the type closest to the other metal parts you will be using as charted
on the above list. It is very important to consider EVERY part of your
antenna including clamps and washers. For example, if brass screws are
used to hold aluminum tubing in place they will cause a headache when
corrosion takes hold. The better choices would be either
stainless-steel screws to secure aluminum tubing or brass screws to
hold copper tubing.''

http://hometown.aol.com/haminfo/hammingout.html

Again, waterproof the joint.