There was an Airyplane (Katrina) flying around in circles above N'Awlins
broadcasting messages to people in N'Awlins who had their radios turned
on.
cuhulin

On Mar 4, 8:32 am, wrote:
I did a google on that, Welland Regiment

Crank up your bolume,real good Music.
cuhulin

I'm glad you found it interesting cuhulin. I started spending time
down at the armoury building when I was a little kid. My father was a
lieutenant in the artillery. There are a couple of different unit that
operate out of that building. I was only a C.I. with the Army Cadets,
helping to train future soldiers. I should have at least joined the
reserves. Wikipedia has an interesting article on the Lincoln &
Welland Regiment also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln...lland_Regiment but if
you googled Lincoln & Welland, you probably found a ton of stuff on
it. Lot of history in that regiment, from the earliest days up through
WW I & WW II., and a few trouble areas in various other parts of the
world.
Anyway, thanks for the kind words cuhulin. I'm sure that our guys
are really careful over there when they go after al-Qaeda and Taliban
insurgents. It's the damn suicide bomb attacks that cost most lives
with our troops over there. At least so far.

Tell-A-Troll wrote:

...
Interesting...the one who bitterly (and *endlessly*) complains about
"fake" Hispanics can't decide if he is 1/6 or full. Does this mean he
might be fake himself? Not only did he bend the needle on the "Irony
Meter", it actually exploded!

No matter, full or one sixth. He has clearly demonstrated (time and
again) that he just can't handle that "fire-water".

m II then wrote:

You should avoid getting drunk in a public forum. Try AA. Please.

"Hispanic" is almost a misnomer. Mexico is mainly north, central and
south americans. Unfortuantly, the spanish ruling class holds them in a
manner closely resembling slavery ...

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

Roadie wrote:
On Mar 4, 1:09 pm, Carter-k8vt wrote:
Roadie wrote:
Do you honestly think that hams will be of any use for providing
emergency or weather information in an emergency? They haven't yet.

Huh?

You obviously missed the very favorable article on the -front page- of
the Wall Street Journal describing the great job the hams were doing
during Katrina.

Look it up...

I subscribe, so no need to look it up. I read the article when it
first was posted and it came across as faint praise. They really did
nothing of substance.


Well, I'm glad you read it. In my opinion (your's obviously differs), it
was a little more than "faint" praise (seeing as the author doesn't
understand ham radio and didn't necessarily grasp the concept)...but,
-you- are admitting *praise* none the less.

Furthermore, there is a well documented record of hams giving
communications assistance going back to the big floods and snow storms
of the thirties, Katrina being the latest big example and I'm sure
plenty of documented cases between the 30s and Katrina.

Talk to the emergency responders and ask them
if they have any interest in or ability to communicate with hams.

Well, I have talked to them, thank you very much. I am a Commissioner on
the mayor's Emergency Preparedness Committee (for one of the five
largest cities in the state) which includes many professional emergency
responders. The city purchased and is in the process of installing ham
transceivers in the main fire station, Police Headquarters and the
city's Mobile Command Center. Furthermore, we have ham transceivers in
the Emergency Rooms of 14 or 15 of the major hospitals in the county and
have a very well equipped emergency command center in one of the county
buildings located in the county seat.

So, when you imply "the hams haven't yet" done anything in terms of
emergency communications, you appear to be either a ham "wannabee" with
a grudge, ill-informed or just plain talking out of your ass and looking
to troll...

Finally, to answer your question above, yes, I *DO* think that hams will
be -and have been- of use for providing emergency or weather information
(and can -prove- it with years of documentation and real-life actions).
When you say "hams haven't yet", where have you been for the last 70
years or so?

Carter-k8vt wrote:
Furthermore, there is a well documented record of hams giving
communications assistance going back to the big floods and snow storms
of the thirties, Katrina being the latest big example and I'm sure
plenty of documented cases between the 30s and Katrina.

Talk to the emergency responders and ask them
if they have any interest in or ability to communicate with hams.

Well, I have talked to them, thank you very much. I am a Commissioner on
the mayor's Emergency Preparedness Committee (for one of the five
largest cities in the state) which includes many professional emergency
responders. The city purchased and is in the process of installing ham
transceivers in the main fire station, Police Headquarters and the
city's Mobile Command Center. Furthermore, we have ham transceivers in
the Emergency Rooms of 14 or 15 of the major hospitals in the county and
have a very well equipped emergency command center in one of the county
buildings located in the county seat.

It's more a problem of "old timers" versus younger hams. The hams that help
out in emergencies are hams that are practiced in voice communications.

While digital communications are now becoming more and more involved, the
primary means of assistance by hams is VHF voice, to provide short range
communications and coordination.

Hams who can clearly communicate using their VOICE, are needed and well
appreicated. Hams who don't even own microphones, and have no practice
speaking clearly aren't needed anymore.

Health and welfare messages have been moved to the Internet. It's
faster, cheaper and easier to use non licensed volunteers to send
emails, make VoIP calls, etc. Hams still are needed to get the messages
out of the disaster area and to and from the communications centers with
working Internet access, but that is no longer done with morse code.

That's the real reson why the FCC and everyone else is dropping morse
code as a license requirment. The world has moved on, It's no longer
a skill that emergency services or the millitary need in an emergency.

As fas being visible, a ham with a VHF transciever provinding communications
does not look any different than any other emergency service person.
They may wear a vest that says RADIO or COMMUNICATIONS on it, and wear
a hat with some funny letters on it, or manybe not. They just fit in
and do their jobs, like any other professional.

Reporters simply don't notice that they are hams, or care. They write
what their handlers tell them. Their handlers tell them that everyone
works together and gets the job done. They don't single out hams.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

VHF Radios was invented in my home State of MISSISSIPPI,over yonder in
MERIDIAN,MISSISSIPPI,about 90/100 miles East of doggy's couch.So were
Aircraft refueling Balves [[Valves,if you aren't Polish,you don't ''get
it'']] in the air (U.S.Air Force likes them Balves) refueling Balves.So
was the Stetson Hats,Dunns Falls,Mississippi.I don't own a Stetson
Hat,those folks over there in Texas stold it.
cuhulin

On Mar 1, 9:58 pm, "Cato" wrote:
O.K., so you're setting up emegency evacuation packs for your
family, and space and weight are serious considerations, what with
food, clothing tent sleeping bags etc. If you thought that you might
have to abandon your vehicle and use bikes or go on foot, what radio
would you consider? If you were to pack a A.M./F.M./ Shortwave
receiver, which one would it be, and why? Would you pack a wind-up
antenna, or a small active loop?
Would it be a wind-up, multiple power source radio? Or would you
pack a small digital radio with extra batteries, or rechargeables with
a seperate solar charger? What would your decision be, and your
arguments in defense of your decision?

My Hallicrafters TW-200A, it is already a suitcase and has a handle on
it!

Roadie wrote:

All I've read are your generalities...please provide the specific
instances of where they truly did something.

Each month, QST has a column called "Public Service". If you are that
interested, I suggest you read those columns. (Please note that QST is
available on CD all the way back to Volume 1, Number 1). I am not going
to do your homework for you.

Also, you say "hams haven't yet" (implying 'never') and then you admit
to seeing the Wall Street Journal article (the "specific instance" you
are looking for) describing when hams DID help in an emergency. So,
that's not 'never'. You called the WSJ article 'faint praise'---but
*praise* none the less!

If you want to win an argument or make a point, I suggest that you don't
contradict yourself.

Other times I've heard the emergency net repeating nothing more than
old hurricane warnings available on local radio stations and through
NWS.

I would respectfully suggest that it is a (big) assumption on your part
that local radio stations and the NWS will still be on the air. During
Katrina many were not.

Buying equipment to place in your emergency stations is one thing.
Finding a use for it is something entirely different.

Think about what you just said--"Finding a use for it is something
entirely different".

Yes, finding a use is indeed "entirely different". Its -use- is
emergency/disaster communications...and if we *never* have an emergency
or disaster, well, that's just fine with me! So, I'm not sure of your
point--unless you are wishing a disaster on people.

We've chased around this tree long enough. I think (and have 70 years of
QST to back me up) that hams have and can continue to provide
communications in times of need. Maybe not perfect, maybe not
'professional', but there when all else fails. You, on the other hand,
think not just because you haven't heard every incident on every
frequency with your own ears. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Discussion over.

73...

If your emergency tb weather dudes or dudttes say, Take Cover Now!!!!
Forget your radios.You DO like they Say!,,, NOW!!!!!
cuhulin

On Mar 5, 3:05 pm, Carter-k8vt wrote:
Roadie wrote:
All I've read are your generalities...please provide the specific
instances of where they truly did something.

Each month, QST has a column called "Public Service". If you are that
interested, I suggest you read those columns. (Please note that QST is
available on CD all the way back to Volume 1, Number 1). I am not going
to do your homework for you.

Also, you say "hams haven't yet" (implying 'never') and then you admit
to seeing the Wall Street Journal article (the "specific instance" you
are looking for) describing when hams DID help in an emergency. So,
that's not 'never'. You called the WSJ article 'faint praise'---but
*praise* none the less!

If you want to win an argument or make a point, I suggest that you don't
contradict yourself.

Other times I've heard the emergency net repeating nothing more than
old hurricane warnings available on local radio stations and through
NWS.

I would respectfully suggest that it is a (big) assumption on your part
that local radio stations and the NWS will still be on the air. During
Katrina many were not.

Buying equipment to place in your emergency stations is one thing.
Finding a use for it is something entirely different.

Think about what you just said--"Finding a use for it is something
entirely different".

Yes, finding a use is indeed "entirely different". Its -use- is
emergency/disaster communications...and if we *never* have an emergency
or disaster, well, that's just fine with me! So, I'm not sure of your
point--unless you are wishing a disaster on people.

We've chased around this tree long enough. I think (and have 70 years of
QST to back me up) that hams have and can continue to provide
communications in times of need. Maybe not perfect, maybe not
'professional', but there when all else fails. You, on the other hand,
think not just because you haven't heard every incident on every
frequency with your own ears. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Discussion over.

73...

All I hear and read are glowing generalities about how the ham radio
operators have saved the day in times of major catastrophe and yet no
examples are ever provided. Yes, I know it feels good to think that
hams will be the ones to establish communications first and point the
way to the city inundated by a hurricane or flattened out by tornado.
But the reality is that the professional emergency responders are the
ones there first and they really get the job done. Hams have in my
experience attempted to set up H&W nets on HF but they fail miserably
because there is no self control - everyone has to be first so nobody
gets through. Heaven forbid they would attempt anything more
complex. There may have been a time directly after WWII when there
were enough trained comm guys to allow the amateur radio service to
perform something useful in a disaster. But that time has long since
passed.