Telamon wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:

wrote:
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.

And yet,.....

Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.

But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.

There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.

How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!
It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.

Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.

And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?

That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.

Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.

Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.

And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.
AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.

I"m partial to Walthers, myself.

I like Para Ordance myself.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/main.html

Out of the box one gun was good but another needed a little polish on
the trigger parts for a smooth pull. They are a Canadian firm.


Pull to the left, do they?

On Aug 13, 7:27 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:





dxAce wrote:

D Peter Maus wrote:

wrote:
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.

And yet,.....

Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.

But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.

There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.

How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!
It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.

Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.

And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?

That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.

Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.

Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.

And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.

AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.

I"m partial to Walthers, myself.

I like Para Ordance myself.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/main.html

Out of the box one gun was good but another needed a little polish on
the trigger parts for a smooth pull. They are a Canadian firm.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OMG - Canadians Making Killer Hand Guns
Mike (M II) Say It Ain't So . . . ~ RHF

RHF wrote:

On Aug 13, 7:27 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:





dxAce wrote:

D Peter Maus wrote:

wrote:
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.

And yet,.....

Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.

But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.

There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.

How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!
It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.

Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.

And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?

That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.

Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.

Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.

And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.

AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.

I"m partial to Walthers, myself.

I like Para Ordance myself.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/main.html

Out of the box one gun was good but another needed a little polish on
the trigger parts for a smooth pull. They are a Canadian firm.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OMG - Canadians Making Killer Hand Guns
Mike (M II) Say It Ain't So . . . ~ RHF

30+ million of the vermin just north of us.

On Aug 13, 7:18 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,



dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:

wrote:

Guns have no place in a civilized society.

Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.

And yet,.....

Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.

But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.

There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.

How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!

It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.

Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.

And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?

That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.

Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.

Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.

And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.

AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.

I'll stick with the Garand I purchased from the DCM program (now CMP). I
had to put a but pad on it so I would not get bruised firing it. .30-06
is one mean round.

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm

.30-06 is one mean round. The M1 is one awesome rifle.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

I'd kick myself in my ass if I could. I should have never sold my
M-1 Garand. But I make do now with a Swedish Mauser M-38 Short Rifle,
a Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk I* - Longbranch, and a Sturm-Ruger .45 Old Army
in stainless steel. Hell of a lot of hoops to jump through up here fo
me to keep my .45. Although once in a while I fire a Glock 17 9mm in
competition, but I don't own it. Fired a C-7 (our Canadian version of
the M-16) in auto burst fire, didn't care for it. Waste of ammo in
my opinion, the way the barrel climbs. Careful single shot is the way
I've always gone. The Afghans did a damn good job against the Soviets
using old Lee-Enfields. And some of those old Lee-Enfields where cheap
copys made in shops in Pakistan.
Cato the Canuck

dxAce wrote:

RHF wrote:

On Aug 13, 7:27 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:





dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
wrote:
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.
And yet,.....
Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.
But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.
There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.
How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!
It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.
Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.
And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?
That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.
Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.
Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.
And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.
AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.
I"m partial to Walthers, myself.
I like Para Ordance myself.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/main.html

Out of the box one gun was good but another needed a little polish on
the trigger parts for a smooth pull. They are a Canadian firm.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
OMG - Canadians Making Killer Hand Guns
Mike (M II) Say It Ain't So . . . ~ RHF

30+ million of the vermin just north of us.




Alcoholics Anonymous is meant for people like you. The Tribal Council of
the Miami Nation will also help. They hate to see the flock become
derelicts such as yourself, Supreme Commander.






mike

m II wrote:

dxAce wrote:

RHF wrote:

On Aug 13, 7:27 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:





dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
wrote:
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.
And yet,.....
Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.
But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.
There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.
How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!
It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.
Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.
And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?
That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.
Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.
Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.
And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.
AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.
I"m partial to Walthers, myself.
I like Para Ordance myself.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/main.html

Out of the box one gun was good but another needed a little polish on
the trigger parts for a smooth pull. They are a Canadian firm.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
OMG - Canadians Making Killer Hand Guns
Mike (M II) Say It Ain't So . . . ~ RHF

30+ million of the vermin just north of us.

Alcoholics Anonymous is meant for people like you. The Tribal Council of
the Miami Nation will also help. They hate to see the flock become
derelicts such as yourself, Supreme Commander.

Flock? Gimme a break. We're not dumbass Canucks, nor fake Hispanics.

Call Health CanaDuh tomorrow and get some help.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

On Aug 13, 9:14 pm, dxAce wrote:
m II wrote:
dxAce wrote:

RHF wrote:

On Aug 13, 7:27 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
wrote:
Guns have no place in a civilized society.
Neither do gangs, drug runners, or people who shout on street
corners. Nor is there a place in civilized society for those who create
fear and hysteria by distorting the facts.
And yet,.....
Specifically referring to the Neosho Deputy who spoke before the
cameras, but referring in general to anyone who shouts distortions to
create sympathy for an unpopular agenda, the Deputy is heavily trained
in the technical knowledge, and proficient use and understanding of
firearms. For him to say what he said, publicly, is the most clear and
present reason why the people in this country fear police: What comes
out of their mouths is often not the truth.
But in a more general sense, anyone screaming for confiscation of
anything as a national policy has to do so through the same kinds of
distortions...and their credibility becomes, as well, suspect.
There is no place in a civilized society for such persons.
How many
more innocent people are going to have to die before this nation
finally wakes up and does the inevitable - BAN GUNS!!!
It's interesting how the same people who screamed until there was a
statutory requirement for smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in every
home are the first to scream about banning firearms.
Consider...the reason for the smoke alarm is to warn the family early
enough to take meaningful action to save home, hearth and lives. The
reason for the fire extinguisher is to help contain damage while the
fire department is in route.
And yet, when an armed soul wanders into a building known to be
unarmed, the fault is on the authorities who didn't arrive in time?
That's bull****. If you're going to have a fire extinguisher in every
home to hold back the flames while the fire department is enroute, you'd
be irresponsible not to have an accessible weapon on the grounds to hold
off unimpeded killings while the SWAT team is enroute.
Having a weapon accessible and in play INSIDE when such an event
breaks out, does two things immediately....1) it diverts attention of
the gunmen from killing the unarmed and innocent, to taking cover and
focussing on those who are shooting at him, and 2) it presents the only
real and immediate opportunity to stop his activities at the earliest
moments possible.
Banning guns, as the a number of Chicago suburbs have discovered is
the only way to a guaranteed certaintly to boost armed home invasions.
And sadly, nationwide, school shootings.
AK-47... the best anger management tool ever invented.
I"m partial to Walthers, myself.
I like Para Ordance myself.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/main.html

Out of the box one gun was good but another needed a little polish on
the trigger parts for a smooth pull. They are a Canadian firm.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
OMG - Canadians Making Killer Hand Guns
Mike (M II) Say It Ain't So . . . ~ RHF

30+ million of the vermin just north of us.

Alcoholics Anonymous is meant for people like you. The Tribal Council of
the Miami Nation will also help. They hate to see the flock become
derelicts such as yourself, Supreme Commander.

Flock? Gimme a break. We're not dumbass Canucks, nor fake Hispanics.

Call Health CanaDuh tomorrow and get some help.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

**** dxAce! I take a break from here for a while and come back, and
your still calling us Canucks dumbass, and referring to Canada as
CanaDuh. What will make you turn off the insults??? You know what??
I'd like to sit down and have a few beers with you time. Maybe see
what makes you tick.
Cato the Canuck

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:


So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff, with
access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and probably the
Western world, and the best he can come up with is ..."Gee, I have
this gut feeling". :-(


D Peter Maus wrote:

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a result of a
gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they don't develop a
'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on patrol. Ask anyone who's
served in law enforcement if they've not developed a gut feeling about a
suspect based on very slightly discernable behaviours. Ask anyone who's
ever worked in Customs if a gut feeling hasn't led to an arrest and
confiscation of contraband.

Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs nor has
he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a political
appointee, not someone with field experience or magical powers.

The hard reality is that gut feelings can be inaccurate. They can also
be abused, like anything else. But they develop as a result of front
line experience and are right more often than not.

See above -- he's had no "front-line experience". He's a desk man.

But you miss my point completely. With Chertoff having total and
unlimited access to everything from the CIA to the FBI to Scotland Yard
to the East Podunk Township Police Department and everything in between,
he DOESN'T NEED to rely on "gut feelings". He didn't give one single
tiny shred of any support or evidence other than his "gut". Sorry, but
unless he bases it on the wide resources he has access to, I consider
his "gut" just fear mongering.

It's real easy to armchair quarterback the guy sitting in the big
chair. And it's real easy to criticize someone charged with
responsibility based on your politics and his colloquial speech. But
I've noticed your criticism does not come accompanied with an
alternative practical solution other than "Impeach Bush."

Huh? At NO time and nowhere in my post did I say, mention, hint at or
allude to the "I" word. I have no idea where you got that idea from
(other than a Freudian slip on your part). ;-)

And, yes, my "alternative solution" was that he base his getting the
public aroused on the tons of resources he has, not his "gut".

P.S. Just to anticipate you saying "he can't give away his sources", I
believe (if he actually had anything), he could have made a "generic"
statement like "Intelligence sources report that...") without letting
any cats out of the bag or trusting us to solely rely on his "gut".

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:


So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff, with
access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and probably the
Western world, and the best he can come up with is ..."Gee, I have
this gut feeling". :-(


D Peter Maus wrote:

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a result of
a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they don't develop a
'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on patrol. Ask anyone
who's served in law enforcement if they've not developed a gut feeling
about a suspect based on very slightly discernable behaviours. Ask
anyone who's ever worked in Customs if a gut feeling hasn't led to an
arrest and confiscation of contraband.

Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs nor has
he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a political
appointee, not someone with field experience.



And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending
matters?

You're more cynical than I thought.




I consider
his "gut" just fear mongering.

It's real easy to armchair quarterback the guy sitting in the big
chair. And it's real easy to criticize someone charged with
responsibility based on your politics and his colloquial speech. But
I've noticed your criticism does not come accompanied with an
alternative practical solution other than "Impeach Bush."

Huh? At NO time and nowhere in my post did I say, mention, hint at or
allude to the "I" word. I have no idea where you got that idea from
(other than a Freudian slip on your part). ;-)

And, yes, my "alternative solution" was that he base his getting the
public aroused on the tons of resources he has, not his "gut".

P.S. Just to anticipate you saying "he can't give away his sources", I
believe (if he actually had anything), he could have made a "generic"
statement like "Intelligence sources report that...") without letting
any cats out of the bag or trusting us to solely rely on his "gut".

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:

Zeke Zzzppt wrote:


So, while you're on the subject, is there a place for government
fear-mongering? Like Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff, with
access to -every- law enforcement agency in the US and probably the
Western world, and the best he can come up with is ..."Gee, I have
this gut feeling". :-(


D Peter Maus wrote:

Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have come as a result of
a gut feeling. Ask anyone who's been in combat if they don't develop a
'spidey sense' of impending engagement while on patrol. Ask anyone
who's served in law enforcement if they've not developed a gut feeling
about a suspect based on very slightly discernable behaviours. Ask
anyone who's ever worked in Customs if a gut feeling hasn't led to an
arrest and confiscation of contraband.

Unfortunately, Chertoff never served in law enforcement, Customs nor has
he ever "been out on patrol". He's a lawyer, judge and a political
appointee, not someone with field experience or magical powers.




And you think a judge can't get a gut feeling about impending matters?

You're more cynical than I thought.



I consider his "gut" just fear mongering.



Well, then. That should be good enough for all of us.


I know I'm sure relieved.