On Oct 1, 6:54 am, SFTV_troy wrote:
How many AM DX'ers are there?
How many nighttime AM listeners are there?

Does anyone know the official numbers? Has the FCC tracked it? I'm
looking for a reliable source.

A lot more than you think, especially in rural and the Mid-West.

On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:
David wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 04:54:21 -0700, Roadie

The real question is whether radio stations really care about geting
an inconsistent signal to non-local listeners on nighttime AM. The
inability to provide a consistent signal coupled with advertising that
is usually local in nature would seem to indicate that non-local
listeners are not much of a concern to AM stations.

Radio stations are supposed to operate in the public interest.

Yes the *majority* public interest, not the micro-minority that
numbers 0.01% of the populace. The FCC is under no obligation to
serve a micro-minority's interest.

And yes it is a micro-minority.

It's not the 50s anymore..... today's population of teens and young
adults are listening to the *internet* for their Distance radio, not
SW or AM skywave. The FCC is hear to serve THEM - the majority - and
their wish to have more variety, more choices, more eclectic music
styles (like "indie rock" on 98ROCK-HD 3).

The FCC is serving the majority's wishes, not the 0.01% micro-
minority.

people like Dwardo had their way all radio would cease transmitting at
7 PM because the advertising drops below the breakeven level. All 50
kW stations would cut their power by 3 dB to save money on electric

I admit it. If I had my way, AM stations would be forbidden to
broadcast further than 100 miles. Only 2 or 3 "superstations" like
WGN or WTBS or WOR would be allowed to do national-wide AM. Thus
cleaning-up the air.

Alternatively:

I would forbid Digital broadcast at night, and propose to the FCC
board that AM analog be terminated in 2015. (Same as the UK and
Germany are planning to do.) At that time AM-HD would take over
during night broadcasts.

Do you dress-up for the Star Trek conventions?

Brenda Ann wrote:

[National AM] is where you sell national products. People buy Coke,
Pepsi, STP, Quaker State (and Quaker Oats) everywhere. Most
nighttime radio has long been such spots (as has network radio).


Advertisers are not interested in anybody older than 35. Their
proclaimed reason: People over 35 are "set in their ways" and no
amount of advertising is going to make them switch brands. For
example, if you've used Crest for the last twenty years, no number of
ads is going to make you switch to Colgate.

BUT:

The young teens and adults are "undecided". They have no brand
loyalty, and those are the people advertisers want to target. 35 and
under.

Thus national AM with its over 45 crowd is extremely UNattractive to
advertisers.

IBOCcrock wrote:
On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:

I would forbid Digital broadcast at night, and propose to the FCC
board that AM analog be terminated in 2015. (Same as the UK
and Germany are planning to do.) Then HD would take over.

Do you dress-up for the Star Trek conventions?

Never been to one. I did go to a World Science Fiction Convention one
time (where the Hugo Awards are presented), but everyone dressed
normally.

On Oct 1, 10:41 am, wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:

[National AM] is where you sell national products. People buy Coke,
Pepsi, STP, Quaker State (and Quaker Oats) everywhere. Most
nighttime radio has long been such spots (as has network radio).

Advertisers are not interested in anybody older than 35. Their
proclaimed reason: People over 35 are "set in their ways" and no
amount of advertising is going to make them switch brands. For
example, if you've used Crest for the last twenty years, no number of
ads is going to make you switch to Colgate.

BUT:

The young teens and adults are "undecided". They have no brand
loyalty, and those are the people advertisers want to target. 35 and
under.

Thus national AM with its over 45 crowd is extremely UNattractive to
advertisers.

Dang Gee Golly Wally !

Instead of Calibrating my 21st Anniversary of my 39th Birthday
- I must be Calibrating my 39th Anniversary of my 21st Birthday
-cause- I change products all the time based on what's 'new'
and 'improved'.

old and tired and 'feeling' real un-attractive right now ~ RHF

wrote in message
ups.com...

The number of nighttime listeners is principally their
local audience and the counts are likely available
from Arbitron or the radio station in question.

arbitron only list 6am to midnight. There's no breakdown available
for nighttime hours, at least none that I can see.

There is data for every hour of the day, but licensed only for use by
Arbitron subscribers. It takes a couple of clicks to get a Midnight to 6 AM
ranker or table. In fact, many stations in large metros with lots of shift
workers consider the prime morning drive time to begin at 5 AM, and they do
a 5 AM to 10 AM drive time table for sales.

"David" wrote in message
...

Radio stations are supposed to operate in the public interest. If
people like Dwardo had their way all radio would cease transmitting at
7 PM because the advertising drops below the breakeven level. All 50
kW stations would cut their power by 3 dB to save money on electric
bills and all would run syndicated talk radio because those ASCAP fees
cut into the bottom line and it's much cheaper to pay a hatemonger.

Who said talk stations do not pay ASCAP, BMI and SESAC. They do. Music in
bumpers, commercials, etc., also has to be licensed.

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"Roadie" wrote in message
ps.com...
Radio stations are supposed to operate in the public interest. If
people like Dwardo had their way all radio would cease transmitting at
7 PM because the advertising drops below the breakeven level. All 50
kW stations would cut their power by 3 dB to save money on electric
bills and all would run syndicated talk radio because those ASCAP fees
cut into the bottom line and it's much cheaper to pay a hatemonger.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Operating in the public interest is fine, but targeting an audience
hundreds of miles away that an advertiser would have little hope of
selling his product to makes no business sense at all. And radio
stations are businesses that attempt to be profitable.


This is where you sell national products. People buy Coke, Pepsi, STP,
Quaker State (and Quaker Oats) everywhere. Most nighttime radio has long
been such spots (as has network radio always been).

That is just not how radio is sold. Local radio is sold for the local metro,
and you get no greater rate because you have more extensive coverage.

The accounts you mention don't buy night radio, anyway. Most of them do not
buy the ages that AM radio attracts. One of them does not buy radio at all.

Networks are a device to collect in one buy stations in many markets, and
the audience estimates are compiled from the ratings of the individual
stations. Networks are used in radio to provide content a station wants for
"free" to the station; the station gives part of the time, which the network
resells in a package, usually at a rate lower than the sum of the rates of
each station. That way the network gets revenue, and the station does not
have hard cash costs... this is similar to the model for network TV, too.

Only one network show I know of, Rush, requires in some markets an amount of
cash as well as inventory (but there may be a few others). The syndication
model, similar to network, was invented by the folks who created American
Top 40... principally Tom Rounds... around 1970. The show was generally free
to the station, or had a small payment for hard costs, and the station ran
the program's spots, which provided Watermark with its profits. One show,
the famous or infamous one created by Art Bell, required most of the barter
spots to be run in the daytime, except for a few that had an appeal to
overnight listeners specifically, such as the "consumer DX radios" they
often peddle.

"Roadie" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 1, 6:54 am, SFTV_troy wrote:
How many AM DX'ers are there?
How many nighttime AM listeners are there?


Two very different questions. The first one has no answer, but is
lilkely quite small. The number of nighttime listeners is
porincipally their local audience and the counts are likely available
from Arbitron or the radio station in question.

Subscribers in each of the roughly 300 rated markets can see the Midnight to
6 AM audiences in the software application we get to view ratings. One can
also, of course, see 7 PM to Midnight or any individual hour by age, sex,
ethnicity and even county or ZIP code cluster. If a station has audience in
an adjacent market, or even a distant one, they would have to subscribe to
the other market reports... which given the cost vs. no benefits, they
seldom do.


Does anyone know the official numbers? Has the FCC tracked it? I'm
looking for a reliable source.

The real question is whether radio stations really care about geting
an inconsistent signal to non-local listeners on nighttime AM. The
inability to provide a consistent signal coupled with advertising that
is usually local in nature would seem to indicate that non-local
listeners are not much of a concern to AM stations.

Good analysis.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Brenda Ann wrote:

[National AM] is where you sell national products. People buy Coke,
Pepsi, STP, Quaker State (and Quaker Oats) everywhere. Most
nighttime radio has long been such spots (as has network radio).


Advertisers are not interested in anybody older than 35.

Actually, 35-to-54 is a key if not total part of most campaigns. Nearly all
ad agency business is bought against 18-54 or some subset, like Assimilated
Hispanic Women between 25 and 44.