On Dec 11, 7:41 pm, David wrote:
Telamon wrote:
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
No. It's that news/talk is mostly on AM so it is the band being
disrupted. I can't make any sense of the approach taken implemented HD
on the AM band so I'm grasping for a reason.

1. AM audiences are declining rapidly
2. AM listener age is increasing each year.
3. AM formats like news / talk, when put on FM, increase younger demos
almost instantly.

I don't see this happening.

4. This shows the main reason (as does all kinds of research) for the
decline of AM is that it sounds just so bad. HD is an attempt to make it
sound better and make it viable again.

Problem is HD doesn't sound any better.

It sounds worse. It has a greasy XM-like sound to it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

David - Sha Na Na "Grease for Peace" ! ~ RHF
http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/prod_lrg...9/60565459.jpg

"David" wrote in message
...
Telamon wrote:
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
No. It's that news/talk is mostly on AM so it is the band being
disrupted. I can't make any sense of the approach taken implemented HD
on the AM band so I'm grasping for a reason.

1. AM audiences are declining rapidly
2. AM listener age is increasing each year.
3. AM formats like news / talk, when put on FM, increase younger demos
almost instantly.

I don't see this happening.

4. This shows the main reason (as does all kinds of research) for the
decline of AM is that it sounds just so bad. HD is an attempt to make it
sound better and make it viable again.

Problem is HD doesn't sound any better.


It sounds worse. It has a greasy XM-like sound to it.

Actually, it has CD-like sound. The difference is that analog FM has a
preemphasis curve, which is not used for HD.

David Eduardo wrote:


"David" wrote in message
...
Telamon wrote:
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
No. It's that news/talk is mostly on AM so it is the band being
disrupted. I can't make any sense of the approach taken implemented HD
on the AM band so I'm grasping for a reason.

1. AM audiences are declining rapidly
2. AM listener age is increasing each year.
3. AM formats like news / talk, when put on FM, increase younger demos
almost instantly.

I don't see this happening.

4. This shows the main reason (as does all kinds of research) for the
decline of AM is that it sounds just so bad. HD is an attempt to make
it sound better and make it viable again.

Problem is HD doesn't sound any better.


It sounds worse. It has a greasy XM-like sound to it.

Actually, it has CD-like sound. The difference is that analog FM has a
preemphasis curve, which is not used for HD.

David,

What does "CD-like" really mean?

Is it...
same noise level?
same frequency response?
same dynamic range?
same freedom from compression artifacts?
same distortion?
same skipping and pausing as I drive down a rough road?

The hype says like a CD, but never defines what it means.

"craigm" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:


It sounds worse. It has a greasy XM-like sound to it.

Actually, it has CD-like sound. The difference is that analog FM has a
preemphasis curve, which is not used for HD.

David,

What does "CD-like" really mean?

It has audio that sounds like a CD, not FM analog, with the difference being
that anaalog FM is "colored" by the preemphasis curve.

Is it...
same noise level?
same frequency response?
same dynamic range?
same freedom from compression artifacts?
same distortion?
same skipping and pausing as I drive down a rough road?

The hype says like a CD, but never defines what it means.

A:B comparison of HD and a CD is nearly indistinguishable, but with Analog
FM it shows coloring.

David Eduardo wrote:


"craigm" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:


It sounds worse. It has a greasy XM-like sound to it.

Actually, it has CD-like sound. The difference is that analog FM has a
preemphasis curve, which is not used for HD.

David,

What does "CD-like" really mean?

It has audio that sounds like a CD, not FM analog, with the difference
being that anaalog FM is "colored" by the preemphasis curve.

Is it...
same noise level?
same frequency response?
same dynamic range?
same freedom from compression artifacts?
same distortion?
same skipping and pausing as I drive down a rough road?

The hype says like a CD, but never defines what it means.

A:B comparison of HD and a CD is nearly indistinguishable, but with Analog
FM it shows coloring.

How about something more quantitative?

David Eduardo wrote:
It has audio that sounds like a CD, not FM analog, with the difference being
that anaalog FM is "colored" by the preemphasis curve.

A:B comparison of HD and a CD is nearly indistinguishable, but with Analog
FM it shows coloring.

It should not. There is supposed to be anequivalent deemphasis in the
receiver. However many FM stations use audio level compression and
increased trebble or bass to "improve" their signal and it's ability to
be heard in a car or with headphones.

You will also see the "coloring" if you use a receiver made for the U.S.
in Europe (and possibly elsewhere). The preempahsis is different.

When asked if U.S. FM receivers will work here, I mention the voltage
and channel spacing difference. Unless someone has good ears or really
cares how their radio sounds, it may have a slight "coloring" but they
won't notice.


Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

craigm wrote:
David Eduardo wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
Telamon wrote:
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
No. It's that news/talk is mostly on AM so it is the band being
disrupted. I can't make any sense of the approach taken implemented HD
on the AM band so I'm grasping for a reason.

1. AM audiences are declining rapidly
2. AM listener age is increasing each year.
3. AM formats like news / talk, when put on FM, increase younger demos
almost instantly.
I don't see this happening.

4. This shows the main reason (as does all kinds of research) for the
decline of AM is that it sounds just so bad. HD is an attempt to make
it sound better and make it viable again.
Problem is HD doesn't sound any better.

It sounds worse. It has a greasy XM-like sound to it.
Actually, it has CD-like sound. The difference is that analog FM has a
preemphasis curve, which is not used for HD.

David,

What does "CD-like" really mean?

Is it...
same noise level?
same frequency response?
same dynamic range?
same freedom from compression artifacts?
same distortion?
same skipping and pausing as I drive down a rough road?

The hype says like a CD, but never defines what it means.



Preemphasis/deemphasis curves (plural) that are 100% complimentary. An
analog noise reduction solution 80 or so years old, that works quite well.

"CD like" is a bull**** term with no meaning. They also like to throw
"digital quality" around. CT aac+ SBR sounds bad. It causes listener
fatigue.

"craigm" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:


A:B comparison of HD and a CD is nearly indistinguishable, but with
Analog
FM it shows coloring.

How about something more quantitative?

Radio listenening is based on perception, not statistics. S/n is only
important if the noise is audible... the big difference is the very
perceptable difference between preemphasized analog FM audio, vs.
non-preemphasized digital audio in the HD stream.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
It has audio that sounds like a CD, not FM analog, with the difference
being
that anaalog FM is "colored" by the preemphasis curve.

A:B comparison of HD and a CD is nearly indistinguishable, but with
Analog
FM it shows coloring.

It should not. There is supposed to be anequivalent deemphasis in the
receiver. However many FM stations use audio level compression and
increased trebble or bass to "improve" their signal and it's ability to
be heard in a car or with headphones.

Not only that, the preemphasis changes where the noise floor is...
processing can definitely color the analog audio, and most stations process
HD differently and less.

You will also see the "coloring" if you use a receiver made for the U.S.
in Europe (and possibly elsewhere). The preempahsis is different.

"David" wrote in message
...

Preemphasis/deemphasis curves (plural) that are 100% complimentary. An
analog noise reduction solution 80 or so years old, that works quite well.

But the curve changes the noise level, which can not be ignored in analog.
It changes the color overall.

"CD like" is a bull**** term with no meaning. They also like to throw
"digital quality" around. CT aac+ SBR sounds bad. It causes listener
fatigue.

The test is to have people who are not technical listen to a CD, HD and
analog FM with the same source. HD and CD are perceived as being the same,
while analog FM audio is not.