and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world
when we heard the echo. This moon bounce is much more plausible I think.

David wrote:

and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world
when we heard the echo. This moon bounce is much more plausible I think.

Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B
70' and 200' wires

And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in
particular a fellow named Joseph Klein.

On Jan 22, 3:00*pm, dxAce wrote:

Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B
70' and 200' wires

And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in
particular a fellow named Joseph Klein.

You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal
here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at
the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food
for thought!

You been burnt by the Huntington Investment Company Ace? In my early
years of retirement I also went through a few sharks. I learn't the
hard way and now manage my investment myself = only way to go = good
luck!

John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s
RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods
Drake SW8 & ERGO software
Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100
BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A.
Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270
Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whip
http://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx

wrote:

On Jan 22, 3:00 pm, dxAce wrote:

Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible.


You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal
here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at
the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food
for thought!

You been burnt by the Huntington Investment Company Ace?

Well, they said they were selling me one thing, to which I agreed. But, they put
me into something else, then tried to tell me how much better off I was because
of that.

Somewhat akin to going to a car dealership, signing the papers for an SUV, then
at pickup time finding a sub-compact waiting. Them saying how much better off I
am!

I handle 99% of my stuff myself.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B
70' and 200' wires

And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in
particular a fellow named Joseph Klein.

dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world
when we heard the echo. This moon bounce is much more plausible I think.

Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B
70' and 200' wires

And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in
particular a fellow named Joseph Klein.




The delay, even via long circumnavigation, is too short to account for
some echoes I've heard. I especially remember such an echo when
listening to the Caribbean in Texas in the morning.

On Jan 22, 6:47*am, David wrote:
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world
when we heard the echo. *This moon bounce is much more plausible I think.

Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B
70' and 200' wires

And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in
particular a fellow named Joseph Klein.

- The delay, even via long circumnavigation, is too short
- to account for some echoes I've heard. *
- I especially remember such an echo when listening to
- the Caribbean in Texas in the morning.

David - Now that's a unique possibility*. ~ RHF
* First Hop combined with a Luner Echo.

On Jan 22, 9:47 am, David wrote:
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world
when we heard the echo. This moon bounce is much more plausible I think.

Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B
70' and 200' wires

And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in
particular a fellow named Joseph Klein.

The delay, even via long circumnavigation, is too short to account for
some echoes I've heard. I especially remember such an echo when
listening to the Caribbean in Texas in the morning.

There is something know as "Long Delayed Echo" where it appears that
signals
get trapped in a duct like event in the ionosphere and make several
round the world
trips. At HF very few signals have the power to be detectable via moon
bounce.
Think about it, 2.5MW aimed at the moon with a electronic steerable
antenna.

There are some guys in Oz (Australia) that are detecting US UHF TV
carriers via moon
bounce. Super high gain antennas with very good front end, at the
antenna, amps.

Some LDE stufff.
http://www.df5ai.net/Material/articles5.html
http://www.df5ai.net/ArticlesDL/LEchoes%28E%29.pdf

When I was a kid, about 5,, my parents where making a trip to eastern
Kentucky to visit their parents. My folks could tot stomach "Hill
Billy" music
so mom was always tuning the MW radio looking for something to listen
to.
This was late on a spring Friday afternoon. She tuned in a station
that had
a pronounced echo. The delay was significant enough for my parents to
talk
about it. The main signal was strong but the echo had the common sky
wave
comb filter effect. After maybe ten minutes the echo just fluttered
away leaving
a strong signal that we listened to for the next hour and a half. It
could have been
something in the station patched wrong like a direct and delayed audio
path via
a tape deck. But it has been too many years and my parents, no in
their late
80's, no longer remember the event. I wish I had a recording of it.
The delay was
longer then a syllable, but shorter then a word like 'butter" The echo
would come
in at the second "T". It shifted around somewhat in the delay as well.
51 years
is a long time and while I don't trust many of my memories from that
time, I do
trust this one because it was so odd. Dad was a mechanical engineer
and had
more then a passing knowledge of and interest in electronics. That
event is
etched in my mind. It was the first time my dad didn't have a answer.

Moon bounce of the NAVSPASUR:
http://www.itr-datanet.com/%7Epe1itr/navspasur.html

Moon bounce of US UHF TV stations:
http://www.geocities.com/toddemslie/moonbounce_DXTV.html

Terry

On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote:
On Jan 22, 3:00 pm, dxAce wrote:

Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B
70' and 200' wires

And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in
particular a fellow named Joseph Klein.

You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal
here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at
the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food
for thought!

You been burnt by the Huntington Investment Company Ace? In my early
years of retirement I also went through a few sharks. I learn't the
hard way and now manage my investment myself = only way to go = good
luck!

John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s
RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods
Drake SW8 & ERGO software
Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100
BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A.
Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270
Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whiphttp://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx

John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider
building a variation of the PA0RDT
min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with..

http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary
%20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf

I live very close, within three miles, to two MW stations that drive
many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT
mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD
products are covered by the natural noise floor.

Terry

On Jan 22, 5:41*pm, wrote:
On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote:
You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal
here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at
the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food
for thought!

John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
Terry wrote
John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider
building a variation of the PA0RDT
min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with..

http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary
%20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf

I live very close, within three miles, *to two *MW stations that drive
many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT
mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD
products are covered by the natural noise floor.

Terry- Hide quoted text -

Terry, Prof. Dallas is one of our greatest hobby experts but I think
my RF Systems DX1 Pro MkII will outperform his designs. The DX1 is
also bullet proof against close by stations, it has the highest IP3
point of any antenna on the market. As for the PAORDT mini-whip, it is
a piece of junk that I should take off my listing = poor pickup and
sucks up every bit of noise in the neighbourhood.

As for DIY, if I pick up a soldering iron I will do myself serious
damage and burn the house down = not an option for a 70 ear old dodo!

John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s
RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods
Drake SW8 & ERGO software
Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100
BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A.
Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270
Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whip
http://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx

On Jan 22, 5:32 pm, wrote:
On Jan 22, 5:41 pm, wrote:





On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote:
You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal
here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at
the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food
for thought!
John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
Terry wrote
John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider
building a variation of the PA0RDT
min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with..

http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary
%20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf

I live very close, within three miles, to two MW stations that drive
many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT
mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD
products are covered by the natural noise floor.

Terry- Hide quoted text -

Terry, Prof. Dallas is one of our greatest hobby experts but I think
my RF Systems DX1 Pro MkII will outperform his designs. The DX1 is
also bullet proof against close by stations, it has the highest IP3
point of any antenna on the market. As for the PAORDT mini-whip, it is
a piece of junk that I should take off my listing = poor pickup and
sucks up every bit of noise in the neighbourhood.

As for DIY, if I pick up a soldering iron I will do myself serious
damage and burn the house down = not an option for a 70 ear old dodo!

John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s
RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods
Drake SW8 & ERGO software
Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100
BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A.
Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270
Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whiphttp://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx

Yea, I can understand the risk of soldering......

I fell at work back in April of 2006 and manged in less then a second
to wrack my right knee and
right elbow. The Workers Compensation "gatekeeper" MD ingoted my
complaints about increasing
numbness and inability to control my right hand. I am right hand
dominate. Finally in August of 2007
he decided he better send me to a hand/elbow surgeon because I
couldn't hold anything in my right
hand. After some attempts as using a brace to relieve the stress to
allow the elbow to heal, the
surgeon told me surgery was the only option. So in early November 2007
I had elbow and arm
surgery. The main nerve that controls the fingers was begin pinched by
two damaged muscle
sheaths. I have one nice 4" scar across my arm and a 4" scar along my
elbow over the funny
bone. The upshot of all of this is I can't solder without endangering
me, and everyone around me.
I desperately needed a specially wired 3.5mm (1/8") male to male
jumper. I managed to get it
done but it was ugly and the lack of control in my right hand made
holding a 700 degree F soldering
iron interesting. When my wife got back from her mom's she resoldered
it and forbade me from
even thinking about soldering until and unless I get fine motor
control back!

It is very frustrating as I have building things since I was 9 and
here I can't only not solder, but
I can not build the new RF Entry Bulkhead I want. It would be insanely
reckless, even by my
standards, to handle power tools. From what the physical therapy (PT =
pain and torture) team
and the surgeon tell me I will likely never regain enough fine motor
control to work with surface
mount components and will have other "continuing issues".

Bummer.

I am very lucky because my wife is very 'crafty' and I have some
friends who have pitched in,
often on very short notice, to help me with my odd antenna needs.

Terry