I ran into solid rock trying to drive an 8 foot ground rod. Can I change
orientation, dig a shallow trench 8 feet long and bury the rod horizontally?
Yes, I know I *can* do it, but how will it affect performance?

On May 4, 5:59*pm, m II wrote:
Bob Miller wrote:
Not sure what you mean by performance, but the NEC code allows for
horizontal rods.

Keep in mind that there is a maximum allowed resistance requirement.
Ten ohms between the rod and ground comes to mind.

I've never thought that sufficient. If you have a 120 volt short circuit
feeding into a 10 ohm ground, you can get a 12 amp continuous current
flowing, with no attendant protection device tripping.

The less the resistance the better.

mike

Re-Write
If you have a 120 volt short circuit feeding into a 1 ohm ground,
you can get a 120 amp continuous current flowing, with no
attendant protection device tripping.

Resistance is Futile : You Will Be Grounded ! ~ RHF

"RHF" wrote

Sangaya,

Read - The Ground Rod is First and Formost for Electrical Safety
and it can also Help to Improve your Radio Reception.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...c23d487859bed8

Read - Horizontal [Flat] Ground Rod Under-the-Lawn {Garden}
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...958c0a0a5b9f51

Read - Ground Rod - How Deep ? - Installing a Ground Rod
- One Day at a Time !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...6a4df6658541eb

[etc snipped]

Great links with tons of info... thank you RHF

On May 4, 2:24*pm, RHF wrote:
On May 4, 11:49*am, "Sanjaya" wrote:
- I ran into solid rock trying to drive an 8 foot ground rod.

- Can I change orientation, dig a shallow trench 8 feet long
- and bury the rod horizontally?

- Yes, I know I *can* do it, but how will it affect performance?

Sanjaya,

First simply Move {Re-Locate} the Ground Rod [G1]
'over' 8~12 Inches and Try Again [G2]; and -if- that
does not work -then- Move the Ground Rod 'back'
16~24 Inches and Try Again [G3];
G2 8"~12" G1 8"~12" G3

Second -if- the Ground Rod is about Four Feet (4') in
the Ground : Cut the Rod 'off' and use the remaining
piece of Rod and Drive IT into the Ground about Two
Feet (2') away from the First. *Dig a shallow trench
between the two Rods and make at least Two Wire
Connections between the rods with AWG #4 Copper
Wire or larger/bigger wire.
G1 = #4 AWG Wire = G2

How Far 'down' did you go to hit Solid Rock ?
___ Inches -or- __ Feet

How would you Classify your Soil ?
Type : Dirt -or- Sandy -or- Rocky -or- HardPan
Condition : Dry -or- Moist -or- Wet ?

How much "Space" do you have to Work In to 'place'
your Horizontal Ground Rod in the ground ?
__ Feet Long ? -by- __ Feet Wide ?

iane ~ RHF
*.

Sanjaya,

Horizontal Ground Rod ? - Try Ground Radial Instead

Your 'other' option is a Ground Radial on/under the Ground.

-IF- Possible use more than one Ground Radial all 'connected'
to a Center-Point. Ideally this Center-Point should be 'remote'
{as Far Away from} to the House and Radio Shack.

However -if- You can only have One (1) Ground Radial then IT
is usually best to place it on/under the ground laying directly
under the Wire Antenna Element that it is being used with.

On-the-Ground : Use Yard Staples.

Under-the-Ground : 3"~4" Deep Trench is OK
-with- 6"~9" Deep Trench being Better.

TIP - Fill the bottom 3/8" of the Ground Radial Trench with
the same Kitty Litter and Mineral Salts Mixture used for
Ground Rods.

Ground Radial Wire Size : AWG # 16 is commonly suggested.
http://www.davisrf.com/ham1/grndwire.htm
However, This Wire is more than a Radial it is also your
'alternative' Ground Rod. Normally AWG # 4 is recommended
as the Standard for Ground "Connecting" Wires.
AWG # 10 Bare Copper Wire is a 'nice' Compromise
between the two sizes.

Note - That both the Ground Radial Wire and Ground Wire
should be made of Bare {Un-Insulated} Copper Wire.

About - American Wire Gauge (AWG)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Ground Radial Ends : A Short Ground 'Stake" at each end
of the Ground Radial usually helps out. Most important
at the End where you are 'connecting' to your Coax Cable
feed-in-line and the Antenna. This "Stake" should be Copper
and Two to Three Foot Long and driven into the Ground with
only 4"~6" above.

Antenna {Aerial} Wire Size : AWG # 14 is commonly
suggested and it should be Copper or Copper-Clad Steel
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4608.html
http://www.davisrf.com/ham1/flexweve.htm#14wire
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/wire.html
http://www.thewireman.com/antennap.html

iane ~ RHF

On May 6, 1:34*am, RHF wrote:
On May 4, 2:24*pm, RHF wrote:





On May 4, 11:49*am, "Sanjaya" wrote:
- I ran into solid rock trying to drive an 8 foot ground rod.

- Can I change orientation, dig a shallow trench 8 feet long
- and bury the rod horizontally?

- Yes, I know I *can* do it, but how will it affect performance?

Sanjaya,

First simply Move {Re-Locate} the Ground Rod [G1]
'over' 8~12 Inches and Try Again [G2]; and -if- that
does not work -then- Move the Ground Rod 'back'
16~24 Inches and Try Again [G3];
G2 8"~12" G1 8"~12" G3

Second -if- the Ground Rod is about Four Feet (4') in
the Ground : Cut the Rod 'off' and use the remaining
piece of Rod and Drive IT into the Ground about Two
Feet (2') away from the First. *Dig a shallow trench
between the two Rods and make at least Two Wire
Connections between the rods with AWG #4 Copper
Wire or larger/bigger wire.
G1 = #4 AWG Wire = G2

How Far 'down' did you go to hit Solid Rock ?
___ Inches -or- __ Feet

How would you Classify your Soil ?
Type : Dirt -or- Sandy -or- Rocky -or- HardPan
Condition : Dry -or- Moist -or- Wet ?

How much "Space" do you have to Work In to 'place'
your Horizontal Ground Rod in the ground ?
__ Feet Long ? -by- __ Feet Wide ?

iane ~ RHF
*.
-
- Sanjaya,
-
- Horizontal Ground Rod ? - Try Ground Radial Instead.
-
- Your 'other' option is a Ground Radial on/under the Ground.
-
- -IF- Possible use more than one Ground Radial all 'connected'
- to a Center-Point. Ideally this Center-Point should be 'remote'
- {as Far Away from} to the House and Radio Shack.
-
- However -if- You can only have One (1) Ground Radial then IT
- is usually best to place it on/under the ground laying directly
- under the Wire Antenna Element that it is being used with.
-
- On-the-Ground : Use Yard Staples.
-
- Under-the-Ground : 3"~4" Deep Trench is OK
- -with- 6"~9" Deep Trench being Better.
-
- TIP - Fill the bottom 3/8" of the Ground Radial Trench with
- the same Kitty Litter and Mineral Salts Mixture used for
- Ground Rods.
-
- Ground Radial Wire Size : AWG # 16 is commonly suggested.
- http://www.davisrf.com/ham1/grndwire.htm
- However, This Wire is more than a Radial it is also your
- 'alternative' Ground Rod. Normally AWG # 4 is recommended
- as the Standard for Ground "Connecting" Wires.
- AWG # 10 Bare Copper Wire is a 'nice' Compromise
- between the two sizes.
-
- Note - That both the Ground Radial Wire and Ground Wire
- should be made of Bare {Un-Insulated} Copper Wire.
-
- About - American Wire Gauge (AWG)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
-
- Ground Radial Ends : A Short Ground "Stake" at each end
- of the Ground Radial usually helps out. Most important
- at the End where you are 'connecting' to your Coax Cable
- feed-in-line and the Antenna. This "Stake" should be Copper
- and Two to Three Foot Long and driven into the Ground with
- only 4"~6" above.
-
- Antenna {Aerial} Wire Size : AWG # 14 is commonly
- suggested and it should be Copper or Copper-Clad Steel
- http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/4608.html
- http://www.davisrf.com/ham1/flexweve.htm#14wire
- http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/wire.html
- http://www.thewireman.com/antennap.html
-

AWG # 14 Bare Copper Antenna Wire Cable 70 Foot
from RadioShack Catalog # 278-1329
http://www.markdownalley.com/showitem.cfm?itemid=1453
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ220231344284

Making a Tapered Ground Radial from your extra-left-over
Antenna Wire. {Use a 70~100 Foot piece.}
1 - Stretch the Wire out and Fold it {Bend it) in Half (1/2).
2 - Cut the Wire in Half at the Bend.
3 - Take one of the Halfs and Stretch the Wire out and
Fold it {Bend it) in Half (1/2).
4 - Cut this Wire in Half at the Bend.
5 - Take one of these shorter Halfs and Stretch the Wire
out and Fold it {Bend it) in Half (1/2).
6 - Take the Bent-End of the two Shorter Wires; along
with one end of the Middle and Long sized Wires.
7 - Twist all Four Wire Ends together for about Six Inches
and Solder this Twisted Area
Example : 70 /100 Foot piece of R/S Antenna Wire
x----------------------------------- 35 Ft / 50 Ft
x------------------ 17.5 Ft / 25 Ft
x--------- 8.75 Ft / 12.5 Ft
x--------- 8.75 Ft /12.5 Ft
8 - Solder your # 4~10 AWG Ground Wire to the
Soldered-End of this Wire Bundle.

Dig a a 3"~4" Deep Trench by 3"~4" Wide that is about
35 / 50 Feet long. Cover the bottom of the Trench with
3/8" of the same Kitty Litter and Mineral Salts Mixture
used for Ground Rods.

Drive a short Ground "Stake" into the Ground at the
End where the Ground Radial Wire Bundle will be
coming out of the Trench.

Attach the Ground Radial Wire Bundle to the Ground "Stake"
using a Ground Rod Clamp or 2~3 SS Hose Clamps.

Place the Four Wires in Trench 'spaced' about an Inch apart.

Cover the Wires with the original removed Soil from the
Trench and Fill-In the Trench completely. Wet and Tamp
Down Soil in the Trench; repeat the Wetting and Tamping
Down process Once-a-Day for the next 2~3 Days; and
ensure that the Soil out to a Foot on both sides of the
Trench is Wet Down too.

The location of the Ground "Stake" and the Ground Radial
should be 'remote' {Far Away from} to the House and the
Radio Shack. It is the 1ST Grounding Point along the
Path from your Wire Antenna Element to your House and
can help in keeping any nearby Electrical Discharges
resulting from Lightning out and away from your Home.


it's a radial idea to be ground in dirt - iane ~ RHF {pomkia}
.
Are You Interested in building a better Shortwave Listening*
(SWL) Antenna ? {SWL Group} = http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
GoTo = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/

In article ,
"Sanjaya" wrote:

I ran into solid rock trying to drive an 8 foot ground rod. Can I change
orientation, dig a shallow trench 8 feet long and bury the rod horizontally?
Yes, I know I *can* do it, but how will it affect performance?

Long thread and none bother to answer your question.

Where do you live and what are the soil conditions around your house?
How deep is the water table in your area?
How deep did the rod go before you hit the rock?
What kind of antenna are you using?

If soil conditions around you house are good a few feet of ground rod is
good enough for a balanced antenna.

If you are using a balanced antenna a ground rod is good enough but if
you are using a single wire common mode antenna use a ground radial. Use
at least one ground radial under the single wire. More radials of
different lengths would be better in the area under the single wire.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On May 8, 5:32*am, dave wrote:
Telamon wrote:
In article ,
*"Sanjaya" wrote:

I ran into solid rock trying to drive an 8 foot ground rod. Can I change
orientation, dig a shallow trench 8 feet long and bury the rod horizontally?
Yes, I know I *can* do it, but how will it affect performance?

Long thread and none bother to answer your question.

Where do you live and what are the soil conditions around your house?
How deep is the water table in your area?
How deep did the rod go before you hit the rock?
What kind of antenna are you using?

If soil conditions around you house are good a few feet of ground rod is
good enough for a balanced antenna.

If you are using a balanced antenna a ground rod is good enough but if
you are using a single wire common mode antenna use a ground radial. Use
at least one ground radial under the single wire. More radials of
different lengths would be better in the area under the single wire.

- If you drive the rod at an angle you may
- have better luck with rocks.

David - Better Luck Hitting Them ?
-or- Better Luck Avoiding Them ?

a rock is a rock is a rock ~ RHF

RHF wrote:


- If you drive the rod at an angle you may
- have better luck with rocks.

David - Better Luck Hitting Them ?
-or- Better Luck Avoiding Them ?

a rock is a rock is a rock ~ RHF
.
A better chance at going underneath them.

On May 9, 4:51*am, dave wrote:

- - - If you drive the rod at an angle you may
- - - have better luck with rocks.

- - David - Better Luck Hitting Them ?
- - -or- Better Luck Avoiding Them ?
- - a rock is a rock is a rock ~ RHF

- A better chance at going underneath them.

David - Sorry I Fail to 'see' the Logic. ~ RHF
- rocks are rocks -