Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

DWP

CelticDude wrote:
Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?


ebay owns PayPal. They're highly motivated to drive users to allow
Paypal for a couple of reasons. One is the access to personal
information that PayPal use permits. Information harvesting, collation
and sales is a profit center for most businesses, today.

Second, PayPal itself is a profit center for eBay. And not always in
a good way.

Do a websearch for some of the horror stories. It's not pretty.

On May 5, 4:07*pm, "MWH" wrote:

- eBay owns Paypal. Literally.

and part of Craig's List Too !

About eBay Inc.
http://news.ebay.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=305980
Founded in 1995, eBay Inc. connects hundreds of millions of people
around the world every day, empowering them to explore new
opportunities and innovate together. eBay Inc. does this by providing
the Internet platforms of choice for global commerce, payments and
communications. Since its inception, eBay Inc. has expanded to include
some of the strongest brands in the world, including eBay, PayPal,
Skype, StubHub, Shopping.com, and others. eBay Inc. is headquartered
in San Jose, California.




"CelticDude" wrote in message

...



Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. *He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". *The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. *Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories *of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. *He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. *I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. *Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. *Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

DWP- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
Second, PayPal itself is a profit center for eBay. And not always in a
good way.

Do a websearch for some of the horror stories. It's not pretty.


OTOH, I won't buy anything on eBay unless the seller takes PayPal - and I
buy lots of stuff on eBay. Going to a bank/post office to get a draft/MO
is too much hassle.

This is the 21st century. If you don't take electronic payments, I'm not
interested in buying from you.

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't know that PayPal was so closely
connected to EBay; that explains a lot. Ironically, as a buyer, I
also will not generally bid on an item unless they take PayPal, as I
feel it's the safest bet for me. OTOH I do not have PayPal connected
to a bank account. I have heard of PayPal taking money out of a bank
account if they decide you owe them. At least with a credit card, I
have some recourse beyond PayPal.

However, this policy of EBay's still strikes me as incredibly
arbitrary. Why for some categories, and not others. My radios are
listed under Everything ElseOther. Very annoying.

DWP

D Peter Maus wrote:


ebay owns PayPal. They're highly motivated to drive users to allow
Paypal for a couple of reasons. One is the access to personal
information that PayPal use permits. Information harvesting, collation
and sales is a profit center for most businesses, today.

Second, PayPal itself is a profit center for eBay. And not always in
a good way.

Do a websearch for some of the horror stories. It's not pretty.


In European community, everybody has an IBAN/BIC set of numbers/codes, so
that you can transfer money for free... (within EG ..)

Marc
--
--
Shortwave transmissions in English, Francais, Nederlands, Deutsch,
Suid-Afrikaans, Chinese, Dansk, Urdu, Cantonese, Greek, Spanish,
Portuguese, ...
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/swlist/ Updated every month or so ....

"CelticDude" wrote in message
...

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra.

Not a valid argument. It's well documented that Paypal acceptance increases
average selling prices, way beyond the fees charged. So someone that
doesn't take Paypal is LOSING money. People that refuse to take Paypal are
usually the sellers that have been on the losing end of a dispute. Good,
honest sellers take Paypal if they want to sell their items for as much as
possible.

OTOH, I won't buy anything on eBay unless the seller takes PayPal - and I
buy lots of stuff on eBay. Going to a bank/post office to get a draft/MO
is too much hassle.

This is the 21st century. If you don't take electronic payments, I'm not
interested in buying from you.

Yup-same here. No way as a buyer I'll consider a non-Paypal item. Running to
the bank/post office is a major pain in the ass. Also, Paypal offers me
protection. I had to get them involved after a couple of scumbags wouldn't
ship the radios or just sat on them. Without PP I'd have had no recourse.

Rich

Radioguy wrote:
On May 5, 8:51 pm, "Bob Campbell" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ...

Like I said. Read some of the horror stories. And what was required, as
well as how long it took, to get something put right.
There are lots of horror stories for all kinds of things. So what? They
are a tiny fraction of the millions of satisfied users of whatever the
"horror stories" pertain to.

If you think a PO Money Order is a hassle, try getting your money back
after PayPal has cleaned out your checking account.
If you think that is a hassle, try getting your money back after any number
of online scams have "cleaned out your checking account".

What's your point? That **** Sometimes Happens?

Paypal is a very successful and very efficient money broker
operation. The complaints I've read have been of people who decided
to not follow the rules or didn't look into the deal beforehand.
Filed a complaint outside of the required dates. Were surprised by
fees on certain international transactions.

Also I've heard about buyer or seller complaining about a claim going
the wrong way. Usually, after you peel the verbiage back you find the
individual wasn't telling the whole story.



And then there's this. First hand experience. Transaction went
according to plan. Price agreed, item paid for through PayPal. PayPal
account linked to a credit card. Item shipped. Arrived intact. Positive
feedback exchanged.

And then I tried to use the credit card. It was declined. Called the
bank. Over limit. Audit of transactions found that PayPal had taken from
the PayPal account the $32.50 for the transaction. They then deducted
the remaining $400+ in the account. And then billed the account again
for $8,661.40.

At first PayPal denied that such a billing had taken place. That went
on for more than a month. The credit card company got involved and
verified that the transaction had, indeed taken place. Documents were
exchanged. Phone calls were made. Letters written. For more than a year.

Then PayPal insisted that there had been no such account. That the
account had never existed. More documents. More phone calls. More letters.

Then, after 14 months, PayPal announced a clerical error. Refunded
the $8,661.40.

To date, the $400+ balance in the account after the transaction, has
not been returned.

Second experience. This from my g/f (now former) who had an eBay
account for years. She had her PayPal account linked to her bank
account. Ebay item purchased. Transaction completed. Item shipped and
received intact. Positive feedback exchanged.

PayPal cleaned out her bank account. Some $5000.

A former member of this newsgroup makes an eBay purchase of a ham
tranceiver. Pays for the item through PayPal. Receives the item.
Positive feedback exchanged. PayPal sends him a letter of notice that
the seller has filed a non payment claim. e-Mails exchanged, phone calls
made. PayPal deducts a second payment for the item from the PayPal
account. Then a third. Account is closed. PayPal attempts a fourth
deduction from the account. Sends a notice of default demanding payment.

That one took 7 months to straighten out.

I've got more, but you get the idea.

PayPal is an efficient money broker. It is not, however, very
reliable. And it is not as reputable, nor as secure, as other on-line
payment systems. PayPal is quite easy to defraud.

Most on-line security and fraud protection agencies now recommend a
PayPal account NOT be used for on-line transactions. If PayPal account
must be used, they recommend a balance only as large as the transaction
it is to cover. No excess. And no link to one's checking account or
credit card. (My former g/f created a special checking account
exclusively for her PayPal account. There's never more than a couple
hundred bucks in it. Even so, she's had another incident involving
PayPal since we broke up.) Should a fraudulent deduction be made, PayPal
can be very difficult to deal with when recovering funds.




If someone is dumb enough to get themselves involved in an online scam
that "cleans out" their banking account then they are probably ripe
for the picking.

Interesting presumption there. Not everyone who has gotten cleaned
out by PayPal has been involved in an on-line scam. I wasn't. My g/f
wasn't. The former newsgroup member wasn't. The scam was PayPal.


If there was fraudulent use of someones account then
Paypal will reimburse. But if an individual is dumb enough to give
paypal information to someone else then I don't feel at all sorry.

Paying by credit card minimizes that problem in the US because of
limited liability on the part of the credit card holder.


Then, pay by credit card. There are far more systems in place to
recover lost, stolen or misdirected funds than with PayPal.

D Peter Maus wrote:

Radioguy wrote:
On May 5, 8:51 pm, "Bob Campbell" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ...

Like I said. Read some of the horror stories. And what was required, as
well as how long it took, to get something put right.
There are lots of horror stories for all kinds of things. So what? They
are a tiny fraction of the millions of satisfied users of whatever the
"horror stories" pertain to.

If you think a PO Money Order is a hassle, try getting your money back
after PayPal has cleaned out your checking account.
If you think that is a hassle, try getting your money back after any number
of online scams have "cleaned out your checking account".

What's your point? That **** Sometimes Happens?

Paypal is a very successful and very efficient money broker
operation. The complaints I've read have been of people who decided
to not follow the rules or didn't look into the deal beforehand.
Filed a complaint outside of the required dates. Were surprised by
fees on certain international transactions.

Also I've heard about buyer or seller complaining about a claim going
the wrong way. Usually, after you peel the verbiage back you find the
individual wasn't telling the whole story.


And then there's this. First hand experience. Transaction went
according to plan. Price agreed, item paid for through PayPal. PayPal
account linked to a credit card. Item shipped. Arrived intact. Positive
feedback exchanged.

And then I tried to use the credit card. It was declined. Called the
bank. Over limit. Audit of transactions found that PayPal had taken from
the PayPal account the $32.50 for the transaction. They then deducted
the remaining $400+ in the account. And then billed the account again
for $8,661.40.

At first PayPal denied that such a billing had taken place. That went
on for more than a month. The credit card company got involved and
verified that the transaction had, indeed taken place. Documents were
exchanged. Phone calls were made. Letters written. For more than a year.

Then PayPal insisted that there had been no such account. That the
account had never existed. More documents. More phone calls. More letters.

Then, after 14 months, PayPal announced a clerical error. Refunded
the $8,661.40.

To date, the $400+ balance in the account after the transaction, has
not been returned.

Second experience. This from my g/f (now former) who had an eBay
account for years. She had her PayPal account linked to her bank
account. Ebay item purchased. Transaction completed. Item shipped and
received intact. Positive feedback exchanged.

PayPal cleaned out her bank account. Some $5000.

A former member of this newsgroup makes an eBay purchase of a ham
tranceiver. Pays for the item through PayPal. Receives the item.
Positive feedback exchanged. PayPal sends him a letter of notice that
the seller has filed a non payment claim. e-Mails exchanged, phone calls
made. PayPal deducts a second payment for the item from the PayPal
account. Then a third. Account is closed. PayPal attempts a fourth
deduction from the account. Sends a notice of default demanding payment.

That one took 7 months to straighten out.

I've got more, but you get the idea.

PayPal is an efficient money broker. It is not, however, very
reliable. And it is not as reputable, nor as secure, as other on-line
payment systems. PayPal is quite easy to defraud.

Most on-line security and fraud protection agencies now recommend a
PayPal account NOT be used for on-line transactions. If PayPal account
must be used, they recommend a balance only as large as the transaction
it is to cover. No excess. And no link to one's checking account or
credit card. (My former g/f created a special checking account
exclusively for her PayPal account. There's never more than a couple
hundred bucks in it. Even so, she's had another incident involving
PayPal since we broke up.) Should a fraudulent deduction be made, PayPal
can be very difficult to deal with when recovering funds.

If someone is dumb enough to get themselves involved in an online scam
that "cleans out" their banking account then they are probably ripe
for the picking.

Interesting presumption there. Not everyone who has gotten cleaned
out by PayPal has been involved in an on-line scam. I wasn't. My g/f
wasn't. The former newsgroup member wasn't. The scam was PayPal.

If there was fraudulent use of someones account then
Paypal will reimburse. But if an individual is dumb enough to give
paypal information to someone else then I don't feel at all sorry.

Paying by credit card minimizes that problem in the US because of
limited liability on the part of the credit card holder.

Then, pay by credit card. There are far more systems in place to
recover lost, stolen or misdirected funds than with PayPal.

Yeah, ain't no damn way I'd link a bank/checking account to PayPal... I can deal with my credit card company, but I'd rather not deal
with PayPal, at least in that regard.