In article ,
dave wrote:

Telamon wrote:
In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

Telamon wrote:
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"dave" wrote in message
...
Why not just record the station as proof you received it?
EKKO stamps ended after The War, and until the 60's, recording was
impractical. In fact, even in the 60's it was not a good idea... most
tapes
made in that era deteriorated rapidly. Most of my prized audio IDs did
not
make it into a more advanced media as the tape flaked... some nice ones
like
HCRE1 855 and CX28 were lost that way, although verified by letter or
card.
There were wire recorders. Very durable. You could also record on vinyl
records.

I have a pair of Webster wire recorders. One, I bought at a local
junk shop and spent a year restoring. The other, I got from my
grandfather. Along with a rack of wire spools. Some dating as far back
as the Truman inauguration with some very cool recordings of shows like
the Sealtest Variety Theatre, Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar, Have Gun Will
Travel, and the Stan Freberg Show. I still find spools of wire at
antique shows, flea markets and junk shops. Always a bit of an adventure
to hear the audio.

Print-through is less of an issue, and the wire definitely doesn't
slough off magnetic material. But they are susceptible to elevated noise
from stray magnetic fields. So, storage environment is as important as
it is with tape.

I've also got a couple of disc recorders. And an armload of home-made
records. As well as some made in drug store recording kiosks. They're
not quite as archivally stable as they may seem. Many are not vinyl, but
acetate on an aluminum substrate. The acetate breaks down, becomes
brittle, often lifts from the substrate, or shrinks. And the low quality
vinyl used also tends to be less stable over time than that used more
recently.

I've spent a lot of hours recovering audio from wire and disc
recordings, for friends and colleagues. Sometimes, all you get is one
pass before there is too much damage to continue with the discs. And
magnetically contaminated wire will often develop a whining noise mixed
with the audio as it passes through the head. So a very great deal of
care is required when handling these recordings.

By far, the wire recordings are a lot easier to handle without damage.

Both may be more durable than tape, but they're not for casual
listening after long spans of time.

One careless pass, and the recording may be irretrievably lost.

Before the vinyl disk there were the cylinder recorders and players. I
had a neighbor with one of those.

There were very inexpensive tape players in the 60's. They were just
fine for voice. They were little reel to reel type. The reels were only
a few inches in diameter and the tape was thick. The head was offset so
you could record on the other side by turning the reel over. I had one
as a kid. Other kids in the neighborhood had them. Then the high
performance audiophile units were developed with the big reels. The
main problem with tape was the high end audio was weak and the
amplifiers had to be biased for more gain at the high end.

The problem with these over many years is the tape formulation kept
changing to improve the high end so you needed to have amplifiers with
selection switches depending on the tape formulation. Some even required
different heads (gap) depending on the ferro grain size in the tape.

And then to make matters more complicated there was dolby noise
reduction for tape hiss so you equalized for the tape formulation and
noise reduction. That's were I first learned to hate hiss. Now I can
listen to hiss from IBOC to get ****ed off or just read an Eduardo post
as it has the same effect.

The 7" Akais started appearing in the early '60s; before that there
were the consumer Webcors and the semipro Wollensaks. Norelco made a 3"
portable which evolved into the cassette around the end of 1964. I had
a 5" Aiwa TP-104 that I bought in the summer of 1965 to use for
airchecks. The really cheap decks had no capstan and were unsuitable
for anything but note taking.

The cheep inexpensive one I had did have a capstan. I never saw one that
did not have that type of drive.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article 63Q5k.1883$sg6.1303@edtnps91, m II wrote:

Telamon wrote:

And then to make matters more complicated there was dolby noise
reduction for tape hiss so you equalized for the tape formulation and
noise reduction. That's were I first learned to hate hiss. Now I can
listen to hiss from IBOC to get ****ed off or just read an Eduardo post
as it has the same effect.


Perhaps it's your bias. Check the settings.

Ha, ha.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,

There were very inexpensive tape players in the 60's. They were just
fine for voice. They were little reel to reel type. The reels were only
a few inches in diameter and the tape was thick. The head was offset so
you could record on the other side by turning the reel over. I had one
as a kid.

The Norelco / Philips was one of those. 3" reels, two track mono.

Other kids in the neighborhood had them. Then the high
performance audiophile units were developed with the big reels. The
main problem with tape was the high end audio was weak and the
amplifiers had to be biased for more gain at the high end.

There were plenty of decks usable for DXers with 7" reels and 3 3/4 ips
speed that could record an hour per track, mono, in two track configuration.
As mentioned, many had lots of RF emissions that interfered with the BCB
(MW) and were not good for DX use, but others could be shielded or used out
of the box and were less than $200.

The problem with these over many years is the tape formulation kept
changing to improve the high end so you needed to have amplifiers with
selection switches depending on the tape formulation. Some even required
different heads (gap) depending on the ferro grain size in the tape.

I never experienced that. By 1960, the format for 2 track mono (forward and
reverse) and, later, for two track stereo were the same in consumer and
boradcast applications. You are likely thinking of the mid to late 50's
stuff, which was not as standardized.

Nope. Before my time.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,

There were very inexpensive tape players in the 60's. They were just
fine for voice. They were little reel to reel type. The reels were only
a few inches in diameter and the tape was thick. The head was offset so
you could record on the other side by turning the reel over. I had one
as a kid.

The Norelco / Philips was one of those. 3" reels, two track mono.

Other kids in the neighborhood had them. Then the high
performance audiophile units were developed with the big reels. The
main problem with tape was the high end audio was weak and the
amplifiers had to be biased for more gain at the high end.

There were plenty of decks usable for DXers with 7" reels and 3 3/4 ips
speed that could record an hour per track, mono, in two track configuration.
As mentioned, many had lots of RF emissions that interfered with the BCB
(MW) and were not good for DX use, but others could be shielded or used out
of the box and were less than $200.

The problem with these over many years is the tape formulation kept
changing to improve the high end so you needed to have amplifiers with
selection switches depending on the tape formulation. Some even required
different heads (gap) depending on the ferro grain size in the tape.

I never experienced that. By 1960, the format for 2 track mono (forward and
reverse) and, later, for two track stereo were the same in consumer and
boradcast applications. You are likely thinking of the mid to late 50's
stuff, which was not as standardized.

I don't know why you would not have "experienced that" as the tape
formulations changed as long as they were in popular use through the
60's, 70's. and 80's.

Here are examples of recorders from the 60's.

http://www.radiophile.com/recorder.htm

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:
I never experienced that. By 1960, the format for 2 track mono (forward
and
reverse) and, later, for two track stereo were the same in consumer and
boradcast applications. You are likely thinking of the mid to late 50's
stuff, which was not as standardized.

I don't know why you would not have "experienced that" as the tape
formulations changed as long as they were in popular use through the
60's, 70's. and 80's.

Broadcast tape equipment, like Ampigs and MCI's and ITC's and semi-pros like
the ubiquitous Otari 5050 and the Teac semi-pros as well as earlier
,machines like the Magnecorder and the Scully and even the Sony 777
(broadcast version was two track) did not have different head standards and
used widely compatible tape because spots could come in from hundreds of
agencies and production houses. While bias could be optimized to the
preferred in house tape for recording, playback was as close to a universal
standard as you could come. Today, it is very very rare to see a tape deck
in a radio station. They began disappearing in the early to mid 90's as
digital recording and storage became common.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:
I never experienced that. By 1960, the format for 2 track mono (forward
and
reverse) and, later, for two track stereo were the same in consumer and
boradcast applications. You are likely thinking of the mid to late 50's
stuff, which was not as standardized.

I don't know why you would not have "experienced that" as the tape
formulations changed as long as they were in popular use through the
60's, 70's. and 80's.

Broadcast tape equipment, like Ampigs and MCI's and ITC's and semi-pros like
the ubiquitous Otari 5050 and the Teac semi-pros as well as earlier
,machines like the Magnecorder and the Scully and even the Sony 777
(broadcast version was two track) did not have different head standards and
used widely compatible tape because spots could come in from hundreds of
agencies and production houses. While bias could be optimized to the
preferred in house tape for recording, playback was as close to a universal
standard as you could come. Today, it is very very rare to see a tape deck
in a radio station. They began disappearing in the early to mid 90's as
digital recording and storage became common.

You get the last two sentences right but that's about it. You are full
of crap as usual.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:
I never experienced that. By 1960, the format for 2 track mono
(forward
and
reverse) and, later, for two track stereo were the same in consumer
and
boradcast applications. You are likely thinking of the mid to late
50's
stuff, which was not as standardized.

I don't know why you would not have "experienced that" as the tape
formulations changed as long as they were in popular use through the
60's, 70's. and 80's.

Broadcast tape equipment, like Ampigs and MCI's and ITC's and semi-pros
like
the ubiquitous Otari 5050 and the Teac semi-pros as well as earlier
,machines like the Magnecorder and the Scully and even the Sony 777
(broadcast version was two track) did not have different head standards
and
used widely compatible tape because spots could come in from hundreds of
agencies and production houses. While bias could be optimized to the
preferred in house tape for recording, playback was as close to a
universal
standard as you could come. Today, it is very very rare to see a tape
deck
in a radio station. They began disappearing in the early to mid 90's as
digital recording and storage became common.

You get the last two sentences right but that's about it. You are full
of crap as usual.

No, in this case and as usual you are. Broadcast tape decks had to play
equally well material that came from hundreds of different studios, maybe
thousands. They also had to play syndicated shows that came on tape, or even
syndicated formats. As proof, the NAB and STL (Standard Tape Library) had
only one stereo and one mono test tape, available in different speeds, for
all tape decks made. Those standard tapes were used at just about every
location with a semipro or pro tape deck of any brand.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
.
..
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:
I never experienced that. By 1960, the format for 2 track mono
(forward and reverse) and, later, for two track stereo were the
same in consumer and boradcast applications. You are likely
thinking of the mid to late 50's stuff, which was not as
standardized.

I don't know why you would not have "experienced that" as the
tape formulations changed as long as they were in popular use
through the 60's, 70's. and 80's.

Broadcast tape equipment, like Ampigs and MCI's and ITC's and
semi-pros like the ubiquitous Otari 5050 and the Teac semi-pros as
well as earlier ,machines like the Magnecorder and the Scully and
even the Sony 777 (broadcast version was two track) did not have
different head standards and used widely compatible tape because
spots could come in from hundreds of agencies and production
houses. While bias could be optimized to the preferred in house
tape for recording, playback was as close to a universal standard
as you could come. Today, it is very very rare to see a tape deck
in a radio station. They began disappearing in the early to mid
90's as digital recording and storage became common.

You get the last two sentences right but that's about it. You are
full of crap as usual.

No, in this case and as usual you are. Broadcast tape decks had to play
equally well material that came from hundreds of different studios, maybe
thousands. They also had to play syndicated shows that came on tape, or even
syndicated formats. As proof, the NAB and STL (Standard Tape Library) had
only one stereo and one mono test tape, available in different speeds, for
all tape decks made. Those standard tapes were used at just about every
location with a semipro or pro tape deck of any brand.

I'm not talking about what's in broadcast studios Ed'tardo. This is RRS
remember?

You are full of it as usual.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

Broadcast tape equipment, like Ampigs and MCI's and ITC's and
semi-pros like the ubiquitous Otari 5050 and the Teac semi-pros as
well as earlier ,machines like the Magnecorder and the Scully and
even the Sony 777 (broadcast version was two track) did not have
different head standards and used widely compatible tape because
spots could come in from hundreds of agencies and production
houses. While bias could be optimized to the preferred in house
tape for recording, playback was as close to a universal standard
as you could come. Today, it is very very rare to see a tape deck
in a radio station. They began disappearing in the early to mid
90's as digital recording and storage became common.

You get the last two sentences right but that's about it. You are
full of crap as usual.

No, in this case and as usual you are. Broadcast tape decks had to play
equally well material that came from hundreds of different studios, maybe
thousands. They also had to play syndicated shows that came on tape, or
even
syndicated formats. As proof, the NAB and STL (Standard Tape Library) had
only one stereo and one mono test tape, available in different speeds,
for
all tape decks made. Those standard tapes were used at just about every
location with a semipro or pro tape deck of any brand.

I'm not talking about what's in broadcast studios Ed'tardo. This is RRS
remember?

Home tape gear was to the identical standard... in fact, in many cases I
have used home gear for newsrooms, to audition spots for clients recorded in
the main production rooms, and even as loggers. There is no difference.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

Broadcast tape equipment, like Ampigs and MCI's and ITC's and
semi-pros like the ubiquitous Otari 5050 and the Teac semi-pros as
well as earlier ,machines like the Magnecorder and the Scully and
even the Sony 777 (broadcast version was two track) did not have
different head standards and used widely compatible tape because
spots could come in from hundreds of agencies and production
houses. While bias could be optimized to the preferred in house
tape for recording, playback was as close to a universal standard
as you could come. Today, it is very very rare to see a tape deck
in a radio station. They began disappearing in the early to mid
90's as digital recording and storage became common.

You get the last two sentences right but that's about it. You are
full of crap as usual.

No, in this case and as usual you are. Broadcast tape decks had to play
equally well material that came from hundreds of different studios, maybe
thousands. They also had to play syndicated shows that came on tape, or
even
syndicated formats. As proof, the NAB and STL (Standard Tape Library) had
only one stereo and one mono test tape, available in different speeds,
for
all tape decks made. Those standard tapes were used at just about every
location with a semipro or pro tape deck of any brand.

I'm not talking about what's in broadcast studios Ed'tardo. This is RRS
remember?

Home tape gear was to the identical standard... in fact, in many cases I
have used home gear for newsrooms, to audition spots for clients recorded in
the main production rooms, and even as loggers. There is no difference.

Here you go Ed'tardo. This just covers the basics. There were many more
changes than this.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cassette.htm/printable

--
Telamon
Ventura, California