D Peter Maus wrote:

So Liberty is living free under anyone who is you.

?




mike

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On Jul 12, 5:20*pm, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 11:58 am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 6:21 am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
- Still waiting for you to define "personal freedom"...
Personal Freedom . . .
http://www.pbs.org/jefferson/enlight/person.htm
*From your link:
"Yet all Jefferson's happiness at Monticello, his whole "art of avoiding
pain," came at the cost of inflicting pain on others - the pain of
slavery. Slaves built Jefferson's home and rebuilt it. Slaves cultivated
his gardens and fields. Slaves cared for his grandchildren and served
his friends. Jefferson owned slaves throughout his life, kept a slave
beside him as he wrote the Declaration of Independence, brought slaves
to Washington as he restored democracy to American government. While
other Virginians freed their slaves, Jefferson remained a slaveholder to
his death. Slaves even dug his grave."
Dave,
I would imagine that you would have fit-in as a
Jim Dandy "Overseer" during Jefferson's Time.
a fine example of a 'cracker' ~ RHF
*.
-ps- Why way back then even Barack Hussein Obama II
had some relatives that 'owned' Slaves.
{It's All Part of American History}
*.

- So "personal freedom" as a virtue is pure BS, isn't it?

Dave - That would be a "No" {BS} ~ RHF

Dave "My" Personal Freedom . . .
The Freedom to Be Yourself {Self-Defining} -and-
Allowing Others To Do the Same for Themselves

- That's gibberish.

Dave - My Personal Freedom of Though and Expression
is what you define as 'gibberish'.

- Liberty refers to the people not being subjects
- of a king or other despotic rule.

Dave may be that was the 'limited' definition in the 1700s
but it has evolved far beyond that now.

-*You seem to think it's some form of
- personal license to do whatever you want.

Dave "My" Personal Freedom . . .
The Freedom to Be Yourself {Self-Defining} -and-
Allowing Others To Do the Same for Themselves
My Politics {Voting For} & Your Politics {Voting Against}
My Religion & Your Non-Belief
My Freedom of Speech & Your Freedom Not To Listen
My Freedom of Association & Your Freedom Not to Join
YES - "Perfect Liberty" for a Society is Founded
in Individual Rights of Each of It's Citizens.

Once Again 'founded' in the All American Idea
of : Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_l...t_of_happiness

D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:


Well, if they're not subjects of a despot, and they're not free to
express liberty at will, then who holds the golden chains?

Freedom from despotism without the free expression of liberty is
not liberty.

No matter who holds the chains.


"Express liberty"? How does one "express liberty"? What does "free"
mean? How is different than chaos? There's your answer.

We are free to make rules.




So Liberty is living free under anyone who is you.

No. It is anarchy tempered by rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

RHF wrote:

Dave "My" Personal Freedom . . .
The Freedom to Be Yourself {Self-Defining} -and-
Allowing Others To Do the Same for Themselves
My Politics {Voting For} & Your Politics {Voting Against}
My Religion & Your Non-Belief
My Freedom of Speech & Your Freedom Not To Listen
My Freedom of Association & Your Freedom Not to Join
YES - "Perfect Liberty" for a Society is Founded
in Individual Rights of Each of It's Citizens.

More gibberish. You say "rights" but say nothing about
"responsibilities", which limit "rights"; thus your "freedom" is not
absolute, except in a state of anarchy where everyone has rights but no
one has responsibilities.

http://www.iiipublishing.com/afd/santaclara.html

On Jul 13, 6:01*am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
Dave "My" Personal Freedom . . .
The Freedom to Be Yourself {Self-Defining} -and-
Allowing Others To Do the Same for Themselves
My Politics {Voting For} & Your Politics {Voting Against}
My Religion & Your Non-Belief
My Freedom of Speech & Your Freedom Not To Listen
My Freedom of Association & Your Freedom Not to Join
YES - "Perfect Liberty" for a Society is Founded
in Individual Rights of Each of It's Citizens.

- More gibberish.
-*You say "rights" but say nothing about "responsibilities",
- which limit "rights"; *thus your "freedom" is not absolute,
- except in a state of anarchy where everyone has rights
- but no one has responsibilities.
-
- http://www.iiipublishing.com/afd/santaclara.html

Dave - You have the Right to Reply in a Responsible Manner.

and that's no gibberish - thank you ~ RHF

Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:


Well, if they're not subjects of a despot, and they're not free to
express liberty at will, then who holds the golden chains?

Freedom from despotism without the free expression of liberty is
not liberty.

No matter who holds the chains.


"Express liberty"? How does one "express liberty"? What does "free"
mean? How is different than chaos? There's your answer.

We are free to make rules.




So Liberty is living free under anyone who is you.

No. It is anarchy tempered by rules.



Whose rules, sweetheart. Yours?

Idon'tthinkso.

RHF wrote:

Once Again 'founded' in the All American Idea
of : Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness


http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2001/br...rks/elian2.gif



mike

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On Jul 13, 11:12*pm, m II wrote:
RHF wrote:
Once Again 'founded' in the All American Idea
of : Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

- http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2001/br...aphy/works/eli...

That Photo would be an 'example' of Democrat Party
Freedom under Bill Clinton and JaNut Reno.


mike

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