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wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:34:23 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

Exactly what parts of the world constitute "most" and why should we care
what they think?

Because, Hartung

THEY are on the rise, becoming more and more adept at
capitalism, need more and more resources, are in global
competition, and closer to the strategic petroleum
reserves in the world.

China---1.2 billion

China is a communist nation. They wish to become the dominant power in
the world, and they have never "liked" us. Why should we care what they
think.

Asia--- 3-5 billions spread around.

Asia is a large place. You can demonstrate that they are uniform in
their "dislike" of the USA?

David Hartung wrote:
Billy Burpelson wrote:

David Hartung wrote:

China is a communist nation. They wish to become the dominant
power in the world, and they have never "liked" us. Why should
we care what they think.

Billy Burpelson wrote:

"Why should we care what they think" you ask.

Um, maybe because we have virtually no manufacturing base left.
The Chinese have taken it over. (The "Arsenal of Democracy" has
left the building).

And maybe because they are bigger than us and either can now, or
will soon be able to, kick our ass.

David Hartung wrote:

In other words you advise a policy based upon a fear of being
defeated.

That's why China actually enjoys buying into the massive American
deficit. It can use capitalism to do something more attractive than
defeat us: OWN us.

No, I didn't advise any kind of "policy" at all. You just asked "why
should we care?" and I responded -- that China could be a formidable
enemy and, because of that, we -should- care.

Sorry, won't work.

Yes it will.

Fear and greed are the two biggest motivators (well, OK, don't
forget sex). To believe otherwise is to fool yourself.

Perhaps I painted with too broad a brush.

Communist China has never "liked" the USA. Today, they likely see us
as the biggest obstacle to a world dominated by China. Even though
we are their biggest customer, the Chinese do not like us, and for
us to care what they think of our policies is foolishness.

Soumay Nonay wrote:
David Hartung wrote:

In other words you advise a policy based upon a fear of being
defeated.

That's why China actually enjoys buying into the massive American
deficit. It can use capitalism to do something more attractive than
defeat us: OWN us.

You make a very good point.

As I recall, China holds a sizable percentage of US debt.

Who do you think would be hurt worse, at least in the short run, if the
US were to stop making any payments on debt held by the Chinese? Right
now, I believe that such a move would come close to destroying China.
Unfortunately, in the long term, it would hurt the USA even worse.

"David Hartung" wrote in message
...
Soumay Nonay wrote:
David Hartung wrote:

In other words you advise a policy based upon a fear of being
defeated.

That's why China actually enjoys buying into the massive American
deficit. It can use capitalism to do something more attractive than
defeat us: OWN us.

You make a very good point.

As I recall, China holds a sizable percentage of US debt.

Who do you think would be hurt worse, at least in the short run, if the US
were to stop making any payments on debt held by the Chinese? Right now, I
believe that such a move would come close to destroying China.
Unfortunately, in the long term, it would hurt the USA even worse.

I'm not sure it would hurt China at all. It's most likely a calculated bet
on their part: if we default, and they stop supplying us with cheap consumer
goods, we lose. We have no manufacturing base to replace them, and it would
take a sizable part of our GDP to rebuild them, along with likely a decade
or more, during which we would have to simply do without much of what we now
take for granted in our daily lives. China takes over the place we formerly
held as the world's leading economy.

If we ever pay off all the debt, China still wins, because they will have
all those trillions going directly into their economy.

Brenda Ann wrote:

I'm not sure it would hurt China at all. It's most likely a calculated bet
on their part: if we default, and they stop supplying us with cheap consumer
goods, we lose. We have no manufacturing base to replace them, and it would
take a sizable part of our GDP to rebuild them, along with likely a decade
or more, during which we would have to simply do without much of what we now
take for granted in our daily lives. China takes over the place we formerly
held as the world's leading economy.

If we ever pay off all the debt, China still wins, because they will have
all those trillions going directly into their economy.

"Outsourcing is GOOD for this country"
-- George W. Bush

Heck of a job, Georgie!

David Hartung wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:34:23 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

Exactly what parts of the world constitute "most" and why should we
care what they think?

Because, Hartung
THEY are on the rise, becoming more and more adept at
capitalism, need more and more resources, are in global
competition, and closer to the strategic petroleum
reserves in the world.

China---1.2 billion

China is a communist nation. They wish to become the dominant power in
the world, and they have never "liked" us. Why should we care what they
think.

China is as far as you can get from Communism. They are a fascist
dictatorship.

David Hartung writes:

David Dave wrote:
David Hartung wrote:
Dave wrote:
wrote:


§tarkiller© Another youngster not old enough to have
experienced the Carter
§tarkiller© administration no doubt.

You are not a good mind reader. Carter's ineptness pales next to
Bush's.

§tarkiller© Not to worry though. It is likely you may see
another Carteresque
§tarkiller© presidency shortly.

Perhaps, but it is hard to imagine it could be worse that Bush.

Read some history. I can give you a good reading list to see the truth
about the criminal incompetence of Bush.
Contrary to the Reaganite Revisionist version of history, it was
Jimmy Carter who maneuvered the Soviets into a prolonged war in
Afghanistan. (Reagan was the one who let Osama go the Dark Side.)

Your source for this theory?
Robert Gates, current SecDef.
The CIA begins covert action against the Communist government in
Afghanistan, which is closely tied to the Soviet Union. Some time
this year, the CIA begins training militants in Pakistan and beaming
radio propaganda into Afghanistan. By April 1979, US officials are
meeting with opponents of the Afghan government to determine their
needs. [Blum, 1995, pp. 344] Robert Gates, who will become CIA
Director in the early 1990s, will later recall that in a meeting on
March 30, 1979, Under Secretary of Defense Walter Slocumbe wonders
aloud whether there is “value in keeping the Afghan insurgency
going, ‘sucking the Soviets into a Vietnamese quagmire.’”
[Gates, 1996, pp. 145] In March 1979, there is a major revolt in
Herat province, and in June and August there are large scale army
mutinies. [Cooley, 2002, pp. 5] President Carter will formally
approve covert aid to opponents of the government in July (see July
3, 1979), which will result in a Russian invasion in December (see
December 8, 1979)."
http://www.historycommons.org/contex...aafghanist an

David Very interesting, Thank you.

Steve Coll wrote a wonderful book called "Ghost Wars" about the whole
Afghan/Soviet era, and a bit beyond. I cannot recommend it enough.


--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh...)

David Hartung writes:

David wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:34:23 -0600, David Hartung
wrote:

Exactly what parts of the world constitute "most" and why should we
care what they think?
Because, Hartung THEY are on the rise, becoming more and more adept
at
capitalism, need more and more resources, are in global
competition, and closer to the strategic petroleum
reserves in the world.
China---1.2 billion

David China is a communist nation.

China is not communist, and has not been for over twenty
years.

You should really try to keep up with current affairs.


--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh...)

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